Fanfiction Lounge

Astinus said:

There's also the matter that sometimes, a prompt calls for a character from a particular universe. Sometimes, an author sees a prompt, and it automatically speaks to them in the voice of a particular character who is only seen in one part of the universe, or the particular personality of a multi-verse character that is only in one particular universe.

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Also a good point, which is probably why both prompts and canon restrictions will probably be completely optional. It's just easier than saying, "Okay, write a fic in the anime universe. Your prompt is orange."

About the Sue, going to have to agree with the others, and this is mostly why:

She doesn't do anything special. She has no special qualities to her that make her even come off as a Sue. ... And the meeting is not one that makes her a Chosen One, where afterward she has to save the world from any sort of danger.

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Really, the basic definition of a Sue is any character that suspends logic and canon and bends the laws of reality (whatever they may be for that particular universe) for the sake of being awesome/getting his or her way. The reason why legendary sightings tend to be red flags isn't so much the fact that the legendary is sighted in the first place as it is what happens after. Legendaries tend to be marks of super special characters. Writers insert legends either to explicitly make their main characters become Chosen Ones or to symbolize that this trainer will soon become one. In other words, in the hands of most writers, legends are God, and the characters? Jesus.

(Excuse me while I die in hellfire for implying that Jesus Christ was a Gary Stu.)

Anyway, the point is if you don't have a character who ends up becoming the Chosen One or otherwise overly *~*~*special*~*~* in one way or another, then what you're doing isn't a Mary Sue. Rather, it's more like an averted trope, I think, where the reader expects a Mary Sue when the legend appears, but it just doesn't happen. It's clever, not cringe-worthy.

'Course, you'd have to make it clear that you're not heading down the Chosen One kind of path as well. Parodies tend to do this by having this kind of character exist in the foreground with a Chosen One running around in the background, but in a serious fic, just emphasizing the idea that there's no room for a Chosen One in the legends of the region should do.

bobandbill said:

I had some weird ideas recently, heh. One even involves a guy with a split personality. Of course, I wouldn't know how to go about that exactly. XD

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Metric **** ton of research. Google is awesome. (I tried to do a DID fic awhile ago, but then I sort of wandered off because something else was shiny. So, yeah, I know there's a bunch of websites that just take some awesome Google-fu to get to and which will totally help you figure out how DID would be presented. Unfortunately, I lost the links, so I can't help you there. If all else fails, try Little Details.)

If you want to see DID done well in fiction, though, I tend to like plugging Kagerou: An Electric Manga. But that's also because I'm a fangirl.

Feign said:

The only thing is that I wouldn't want to see the fic turn into a Pokemorph story... >.>

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XD Well, it won't be like the Serial Game or An Exquisite Corpse if that's what you're worried about. Everyone will get to write their own, separate fanfics of a certain length within a certain time frame. If we do get Pokémorph stories, yeah, that'd be only slightly amusing (and impressive for only 7k words), but you don't really have to write that kind of storyline if you don't want to.

Valentine said:

Metric **** ton of research. Google is awesome. (I tried to do a DID fic awhile ago, but then I sort of wandered off because something else was shiny. So, yeah, I know there's a bunch of websites that just take some awesome Google-fu to get to and which will totally help you figure out how DID would be presented. Unfortunately, I lost the links, so I can't help you there. If all else fails, try Little Details.)

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Also there are a couple true to life stories about people with a multiple personality disorder, I forget what its called, but this woman thought she was only 1 person, but was in effect 2 people. It was an older film, I think the character had the last name white or grey? In some cases it is not too hard to write a story with someone with MPD, but the explanation of a prompt or change would probably help... Also, because it is a medical condition, it is usually caused by a severely traumatizing event, which as a result shoot your PG rating to probably R.

XD Well, it won't be like the Serial Game or An Exquisite Corpse if that's what you're worried about. Everyone will get to write their own, separate fanfics of a certain length within a certain time frame. If we do get Pokémorph stories, yeah, that'd be only slightly amusing (and impressive for only 7k words), but you don't really have to write that kind of storyline if you don't want to.

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Lol yeah... I tried to turn it around to some extent... with little resultant success >.>

Hmm lol, I guess I had thought this too, was a Serial game type of thing (but slightly more organized, I guess I was wrong). I already have an idea for mine, so when can we start? :P

Feign said:

Also there are a couple true to life stories about people with a multiple personality disorder, I forget what its called, but this woman thought she was only 1 person, but was in effect 2 people. It was an older film, I think the character had the last name white or grey?

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You're probably thinking of The Three Faces of Eve, which told the story of "Eve White" (which, in turn, was a pseudonym). In that case, there were actually three personalities depicted in the film, and if I recall correctly, the real person had more. It's actually rather rare for people suffering from DID to form only two personalities. (I don't recall what the average is, but I think it's four or more. 'Course, it's also rare to have a large number of them as well.) But you're right in saying that a lot of the times, multiple personalities form as a coping mechanism in response to a traumatic or otherwise overly stressful event.

The reason why I really recommend researching DID and other personality disorders is because the media tends to fail at depicting psychology, even the films that claim to be true-to-life. (For example, either The Three Faces of Eve or Sybil, another book/film based on a patient with DID, faced controversy when the actual patient objected to the depiction of her disorder, if I recall correctly.) So, the way you might see it in media -- like with the cliché of good personality, bad personality -- might actually only be a glorification of one symptom or a very loose interpretation of a single set of symptoms.

(Sorry. Abnormal psych is still a strong interest of mine, among other weird smatterings of science. XD)

Valentine said:

You're probably thinking of The Three Faces of Eve, which told the story of "Eve White" (which, in turn, was a pseudonym). In that case, there were actually three personalities depicted in the film, and if I recall correctly, the real person had more. It's actually rather rare for people suffering from DID to form only two personalities. (I don't recall what the average is, but I think it's four or more. 'Course, it's also rare to have a large number of them as well.) But you're right in saying that a lot of the times, multiple personalities form as a coping mechanism in response to a traumatic or otherwise overly stressful event.

The reason why I really recommend researching DID and other personality disorders is because the media tends to fail at depicting psychology, even the films that claim to be true-to-life. (For example, either The Three Faces of Eve or Sybil, another book/film based on a patient with DID, faced controversy when the actual patient objected to the depiction of her disorder, if I recall correctly.) So, the way you might see it in media -- like with the cliché of good personality, bad personality -- might actually only be a glorification of one symptom or a very loose interpretation of a single set of symptoms.

(Sorry. Abnormal psych is still a strong interest of mine, among other weird smatterings of science. XD)

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Ah that's right, that was the movie. Yeah if I recall, the Eve lady had a further fear that had only surfaced later in her life, that was much more traumatizing than kissing the dead body.

Perhaps if one is serious about it though, they could just as well do a Golem/Smeagol approach.

Feign said:

Perhaps if one is serious about it though, they could just as well do a Golem/Smeagol approach.

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Smeagol's sanity was split in half by the effects of the One Ring, and even then, his symptoms seemed to me a bit more like general insanity than actual DID. Just as a side note.

Getting back to the point, yeah, if you can figure out how to avoid repeatedly traumatizing your character (i.e., giving them a reason they feel the need to adopt more than one personality), you might be able to pull off whittling down the set to two, but generally, it just doesn't really happen that often in actual psychology, probably because the patients who suffer from the disorder don't usually just endure one traumatic event. On the other hand, since we're working with the media, one could plausibly just stick to two personalities because that's the most recognizable form of the split personality concept. It really depends on what you need for the story and how obsessive about psychology you want to be.

Also as a side note, but I looked it up, and reportedly, the woman the Eve character was based on actually had over twenty personalities. So, yeah, the movie really toned down her disorder.

Hurrah for the need to research stuff before I actually get down to doing that, whenever that would be (a while later, at least). Wouldn't really have tried without knowing more on it though. XD Cheers for the links/discussion, shall be helpful. *favs links* Heh, the idea is also for an 'original' story rather than a fanfic for a change - most of my random, recent ideas fitted to the former.

Twenty personalities... that's a darn lot. =/ Doubt it'd be that easy to focus on each on either in a text and all, and two does seem to be the norm, probably for the sake of ease, the classic/cliche good/bad thing, and that two is a cool number that deserves more attention. =P Three's a good number too though.

In the two main one's looked at in the Eve story, her original personality was that of a reserved house wife. While her 2nd personality, was much more permiscious, like buying expensive items and going to night clubs. I think this was the 40s or 60s, so back then that would have meant a lot. So it doesn't have to be completely light and dark personalitys, almost just small things to consider.

I greatly appreciate the reassurance on my thoughts about my character. It has given me the boost I need to continue writing my fanfic without thoughts against it clouding my mind.

I do have one more question though. I have planned for a possible short story/multi-chaptered fic (I haven't decided) where my character (I know that it is possibly looked down upon to have the same main character in more than one fic, but she fills the plot I have for her, for they are all connected) has to save a town from a problem. I know that "saving the world" isn't a good thing, but is saving a town all right?

With this, I again figure I'm safe, but part of the reason behind my thoughts that it is all right is because of my doctrine. (My character saves the town because it's the "right thing to do", and she really doesn't want to [like, really really really doesn't want to], but is forced to, so I find her a better character than the Sues I used to see because those Sues seemed to really want to do all the saving.)

On the positive side, once this question is answered, then I won't have any more questions, for now.

I wish I could repay the help I have been given, but psychological disorders are something that I have little knowledge about, and is best left discussed by those who have the information.

I can offer my services to bobandbill if he needs them. Since Val mentioned a Livejournal community, Little Details, I can post to that community if you have a question about DID since I am a member, bobandbill. That is, if you can't find specific information, and would like it answered by a very helpful and knowledgeable community.

Astinus said:

I do have one more question though. I have planned for a possible short story/multi-chaptered fic (I haven't decided) where my character (I know that it is possibly looked down upon to have the same main character in more than one fic, but she fills the plot I have for her, for they are all connected) has to save a town from a problem. I know that "saving the world" isn't a good thing, but is saving a town all right?

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I think the major things to keep in mind with something like this could be as follows:

- Make sure you develop your character either in situation or in personality to have some sort of motivation to help the town. Look at it this way, team rocket is bad (okay stupid bad), but they still help out *for their own reasons* as sometimes mentioned. On the other hand, Ash may help out either because he feels compelled to do so, or because he was the one that instigated the problem to begin with. So saying that, you can't really have some depressed reclusive sociopath decide to help out the town. Though I think you already knew that Oo lol

- Because it is a town, it would make sense that others would also help out (assuming that not everyone in the town was affected by x event). Though people from out of town could help. Making your character the only one doing the saving, sort of looks like the chosen one scenario. Again this is justified, if it is explained properly, but it looks like you won't be including it.

But yeah, as long as these conditions are met to make sense, then I'd say it would be totally justified.

Myself, I am still in the planning stages of a fic using anime canon, to some extent. I've always wanted to make a story that was darker than the TV shows, and somewhat more than the movies. And I'll be incorporating Aura, so the "chosen" thingy will go up a bit, but as long as it is properly explained, I think it should work.

Sues are really not so much about what the character does. Fear of Sues should not restrict possible fiction plots to ones where the main character does absolutely nothing remarkable. Ultimately, it's about whether the character feels like a Sue, and that depends more on how you write her and the other characters in the story than on precisely what the plot requires her to do. Why are Sues actually bad? Because they feel fake - something about how they're portrayed or how the world responds to them is just off. The Sue has stupefying luck that defies all laws of probability, or everybody magically loves her even though she's acted like a *****, or her past is ridiculously troubled without her showing the appropriate scars for it, or she makes men fall head over heels in love with her and leave their wives just by walking past them, or she has special powers that don't fit into the world - she doesn't work. She's not realistic. The rules of the world have been bent to accommodate her. The author's internal reality simulation, instead of taking the world and characters established to a logical conclusion, takes shortcuts by modifying the world or characters in the Sue's favor as the story goes along.

Does it make sense, within the context of your world, that somebody might meet Mewtwo the way she meets him? If so, then that happening cannot by itself make her a Sue. Does it make sense for her to save the village? Then she is no worse than any real person who has saved a village. I don't recall any particular story, but I'm sure there must be plenty of them.

There are remarkable people in the world. There are such things as heroes - there are people who have saved other people's lives. If such people realistically exist, they can't be Sues. The key is that even though they save other people's lives or are otherwise remarkable, they're still human - they make mistakes, it is not always convenient to be them, sometimes they're in a bad mood and yell at people who don't deserve it, they don't always save the day. As long as the character always comes across as realistically human and the world around them makes sense, it doesn't matter if they happen to do something somewhat remarkable in between.

Heh. I actually created a DID RP character on a site once... she was fun to play for a little while, but I ended up favoring one side over the other (the angstyish, one, I guess).

My research wasn't the best, seeing as I used Wikipedia of all things. But the basic concepts are the same; it mostly stems from a traumatic issue. Even if you write in the traumatic conflict, it doesn't necessarily shoot your rating R, so long as you write it to keep it in a PG/PG-13 range.

On average, though, people with DID have ten or so "alters." But two, I think, can be perfectly acceptable. We have the traumatic event, and the character has to create a new way of interpreting the world to deal with the trauma/stress.

Remember, Google's a goldmine (I'm looking at the DID page on WebMD right now). A character with DID can be a lot of fun to write (and this is based on personal experience), but you also have to keep the psychological aspect of it all in mind. There are plenty of issues DID people experience other than weird social relationships.

Feign said:

- Because it is a town, it would make sense that others would also help out (assuming that not everyone in the town was affected by x event). Though people from out of town could help. Making your character the only one doing the saving, sort of looks like the chosen one scenario. Again this is justified, if it is explained properly, but it looks like you won't be including it.

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She is the only one saving the town. The fic is mainly written to show how much she has grown as a trainer/person in general, and in order to show that, she pretty much has to go out and save the town on her own. I don't know how that's going to happen in the fic (I don't have it all planned out, since it's undecided if I'm even going to write it), but she goes out to save the village on her own. There's also not going to be others sent to help her, because no one knew how serious the trouble the village is in was.

But I do know what you are talking about.

Also, Dragonfree, that post of yours is the best I have seen recently.

Yeah that could also work. Hmmm it is somewhat like movie 2, where Ash just wanted to get started, and the rest of the town didn't 100% know what was going on.

I have to agree with Astinus. Dragonfree hit the nail on the head there with the Sues.

Anyway, it's been quite a while since I dropped in here last. Has anything much happened since I went on hiatus? I know Heart Gold and Soul Silver were announced, and Platinum came out last week, but are there any great up-and-coming fic writers for me to check out or anything? I mean, I'm in a writing/reviewing mood.

Oh, and brief update on my own trainer fic --- GONE. I managed to wipe my flash drive a couple of weeks ago, together with ALL my Pokemon and Star Wars fanfiction. All I have left is a couple of comedy drabbles that were sitting in a dusty folder in the corner of my...somewhere. So, back to the drawing board! >:[

I'm in a bad mood. I write better when I am grumpy. *trundles off to write fic about a depressed Cynthia*

KENJI'S RETURNED! =3

*glomps Kenji*

I know exactly how you feel with your wiped flash drive. The same thing happened to me a few months back. I can't say that the exact same thing happened to me, because I'm mostly old-school, and have my fic/notes on fics written in various notebooks, but it does suck terribly.

And do not look to me for fic recommendations. XD;

*glomps*

I can't believe I left, actually. It's too much fun here. I've had the last three days off school, actually, so I've been writing. Expect a oneshot soon!

Holy crap holy crap holy crap. I just played the inFamous demo and almost wet myself. So insanely pumped for this game!

How better to celebrate having just torn through a city and all the baddies therein with ridiculous electrical superpowers than putting on some quiet piano music and writing fanfiction? I, for one, can't think of anything.

Only problem is I'm having trouble finding a particular word. This word needs to describe someone saying something quietly but with utter resentment and loathing, without me having to actually say "quietly but with utter resentment and loathing." The sentence is as follows, with the blank standing for the word I need:

"You murdered Weavile," the soldier [blank] as he dropped from his perch to crouch in the snow.

Any suggestions? Some things I've already thrown out are "hissed," "spat," "said almost inaudibly," and a few more. The word needs to encompass both the quiet and contemptuous aspects of this statement.

How about "growled"?

And that oneshot of mine is going up NOW, unless Dad catches me on the computer, in which case it'll be tomorrow.

Kenji Sasaki said:

How about "growled"?

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...Yeah, that will just about do it. Inner dictionary, you fail me. *facepalm*

Growled be good, methinks. *throws support behind the word* Or snarled. That word starts with 's' though, so idk. =P

Hello again, Kenji, and welcome back to this place which happens to be made of awesome. And pity on your wiped hard-drive. *gives a hug* There probably are some new authors of awesome, but I need to read more released here as of late. -_- Well, stuff that aren't the MSTs at any rate, which I suggest need reading. =P

How better to celebrate having just torn through a city and all the baddies therein with ridiculous electrical superpowers than putting on some quiet piano music and writing fanfiction? I, for one, can't think of anything.

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Well for me, it seems two days full of karate followed by awesome colosseum-related convos with people is fun enough for me to work on my colo fic. =P