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Atheist Alliance

Steven

[i]h e l p[/i]
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I'm guessing they're christian so..Have you ever argued that MOST of the bible contridicts itself? Like, seriousally, There are parts which PROMOTE SLAVERY AND SEXISM. Not very christian is it?

The bible itself was written by man, not God. And man at that time did promote slavery and sexism, if God existed, and God really did have man write that, 99% of it would be things they added into it, and not what God wanted.

This is why Christianity (and all other religions) have been poisoned by man.
 

NurseBarbra

くら くら?
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The bible itself was written by man, not God. And man at that time did promote slavery and sexism, if God existed, and God really did have man write that, 99% of it would be things they added into it, and not what God wanted.

This is why Christianity (and all other religions) have been poisoned by man.

This is also how people make religion out to be anything they want, They mold it to their own intentions.
 
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I'm guessing they're christian so..Have you ever argued that MOST of the bible contridicts itself? Like, seriousally, There are parts which PROMOTE SLAVERY AND SEXISM. Not very christian is it?
They're not Christian XD

They're Hindu, and they firmly believe in all the religious aspects of it, which is quite annoying sometimes.
 

Kung Fu Ferret

The Unbound
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Personally, I think Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Abraham, Buddha, etc., were real people, but were just normal men with nothing beyond the ordinary about them.
Anybody disagree here?
 

NurseBarbra

くら くら?
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They're not Christian XD

They're Hindu, and they firmly believe in all the religious aspects of it, which is quite annoying sometimes.

So basically they're blind to all reasoning? Intresting... (Not really, I know a guy like that so I just avoid him...)
 
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Personally, I think Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Abraham, Buddha, etc., were real people, but were just normal men with nothing beyond the ordinary about them.
Anybody disagree here?
I agree.

After the story being told for so man years, they all have seemed to be exaggerated.


@Nurse: Yes they are. :/
 

FrostPheonix

Eternity.
449
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Well, hello people!

I'm christian. I admit it openly. I am actually here for a good debate, since all the idiots i try.... dont exist. Meh. no one for me to debate seemed to be there.

I was raised christian. My family is christian. etc.

I'm not sure im here to join, but I would like to point out a few things in you guys' talk.


Spoiler:


o: People!

So, everyone, what did you do during the rapture?
I hate the man who said the rapture shall happen on May 21, 2011. Or October 21, 2011 as he now says. He just made my life harder...


OK to just talk here as a christian, right? You can have both sides of the topic! lol.
 

Merzbau

it's just a ride.
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To be honest, I think a lot of atheists started out Christian. I, myself, started out very heavily Christian - in fact, I hated everybody who wasn't Christian, almost. I was an ignorant little twit when I was about 13. Just an angry little tyke, I suppose. In my experience, I've found that religion, especially holy books, are usually the best tools to use to turn people into atheists...you know, because that's the goal, conversion.
 
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If God does exist, what do you think it would be like?

I'm guessing it would be more of a 'spirit' force kind of thing. I'm not to sure how to explain it, but I have a feeling that it wouldn't really be in a human shape. Possibly more like an ancient spirit that can control the world at whim. But, that's just my opinion.
 

Shining Raichu

Expect me like you expect Jesus.
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To be honest, I think a lot of atheists started out Christian. I, myself, started out very heavily Christian - in fact, I hated everybody who wasn't Christian, almost. I was an ignorant little twit when I was about 13. Just an angry little tyke, I suppose. In my experience, I've found that religion, especially holy books, are usually the best tools to use to turn people into atheists...you know, because that's the goal, conversion.

I wouldn't necessarily say that conversion is the goal, but living a life in fear of something that was never there is no way to live a life, and if I can help even one person to be see that, and be happier because of it, then my life has had some purpose.

I agree that the books, the core of the religion, if people read them with open eyes rather than blind faith, are the best ways to make an atheist out of a religious person. It's funny in a way, you exit a religion in the same way you enter it - through the books lol
 
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What are your family's general religious beliefs?

Well, my whole blood related family is Hindu. They strongly believe everything or most of what the gita (Hindu bible) says and they tried to raise me to do the same. But sadly, (according to them) I'm just a kid who is under knowledged and I'll grow up to be Hindu again :x
 

HarrisonH

I doubt Pokemon will be a hit
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Could you list a few passages?
I know of one passage about slavery, and that is philemon. But, I am quite sure the slavery refered to is the type of prisoner-of-war. They had a lot of war etc at the time. The Bible does not support racism. I am not aware where it promotes sexism tho....
Contradictions as to who Joseph's father is: Matthew 1:16, Luke 3:23
Contradictions as to who found the empty tomb: Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:1, John 20:1
Those are just a few examples, go here for more.

As for the "prisoner of war" type slavery you think it is, where have you ever read anything about prisoners of war being sold and bought?
Slaves as property: Leviticus 25:44-46
Hebrew slaves: Exodus 21:2-6
Selling daughters as slaves: Exodus 21:7-11
Beating slaves: Exodus 21:20-21

Sexism in the bible, oh so much
1 Corinthians 11:3
1 Corinthians 11:7-9
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Ephesians 5:22-25
Colossians 3:18
1 Timothy 2:9-15
Romans 7:2
Titus 2:3-5
And so on.

According to the Bible, God actually wrote the Bible himself. Only, he did it through prophets who wrote it down for him. Kinda like scribes.
Cool. According to Galapagos by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr, it was written by the ghost of a man who died while building a ship. That doesn't mean it was actually written by the ghost of a man who died while building a ship.
 

FrostPheonix

Eternity.
449
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Contradictions as to who Joseph's father is: Matthew 1:16, Luke 3:23
Contradictions as to who found the empty tomb: Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:1, John 20:1
Those are just a few examples, go here for more.

As for the "prisoner of war" type slavery you think it is, where have you ever read anything about prisoners of war being sold and bought?
Slaves as property: Leviticus 25:44-46
Hebrew slaves: Exodus 21:2-6
Selling daughters as slaves: Exodus 21:7-11
Beating slaves: Exodus 21:20-21

Sexism in the bible, oh so much
1 Corinthians 11:3
1 Corinthians 11:7-9
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Ephesians 5:22-25
Colossians 3:18
1 Timothy 2:9-15
Romans 7:2
Titus 2:3-5
And so on.


Cool. According to Galapagos by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr, it was written by the ghost of a man who died while building a ship. That doesn't mean it was actually written by the ghost of a man who died while building a ship.

The contradictions of Joseph leave me astounded. Sorry, no answer to that. As to mary, they all say she went to the tomb, its just they give various tidbits as to why. It was Mary Magdalene who went, along with the two other women. Why two books fail to mention the two other women I have no idea, but Mary Magdalene is undoubtly said to have went to the tomb.

Example of Prisoner-of-War slavery would be in Africa. Europeans didn't actually go and catch slaves, rather, they bought them off of Kings who sold them war-captives from various skirmishes.

Sexism in the Bible:
Spoiler:


It is saying that the woman is undoubtly below the man. Its just the natural order of things. The woman came from man, if you believe the Bible that is. Also, about the passage in corinthians (in spoiler), it is saying that Husbands should love their wives and look after them as if they were their own body. It does not just say that wives should submit. Dont stop midverse. In a marriage, the spouses should both look to God, and love him, and also love each other.

If you call that sexism, sorry, thats how its written. Not that women should be meek and do nothing, but that they should submit to the husband and not get above them, or in other words take over the marriage by making important decisions. Similarily, the husband is to take counsel from the woman, and they are to act as a team, but the ultimate decision comes down to the man.

Some slave laws that were in the old testament are no longer in effect. We don't sacrifice lambs anymore, similarily slave laws don't really apply anymore. That would have been Judaism, I think. And in the occasion of having slaves, you are to treat them as humanly as possible.
 

HarrisonH

I doubt Pokemon will be a hit
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The contradictions of Joseph leave me astounded. Sorry, no answer to that. As to mary, they all say she went to the tomb, its just they give various tidbits as to why. It was Mary Magdalene who went, along with the two other women. Why two books fail to mention the two other women I have no idea, but Mary Magdalene is undoubtly said to have went to the tomb.
While they do all say that Magdalene went, they disagree as to who she went with and why. Additionally, if we expand to the following verses, they all disagree on what happened after the tomb was visited.

Matthew 28:1-10: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary go to the tomb. An earthquake happens as a angel comes down. The angel scares the guards away, rolls the stone to the side, and proceeds to sit on it. The angel speaks to the women, who then run away. Jesus appears to them as they flee.

John 20:1-10: Only Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb. Upon seeing that it has been opened, she runs and tells Simon Peter and "the other disciple". Peter and the other disciple run to the tomb. The other disciple arrives first, but stays outside looking at linens. Peter goes in and observes more linens, and soon the other disciple follows.

Mark 16:1-8: Mary Magdalene, Mary, and Salome go to the tomb to anoint the body of Jesus. Upon arrival, they see that the tomb has been opened. They walk in, and see a man in white sitting off to the side, who tells them that Jesus has risen. The women all flee, and speak to no one.

Example of Prisoner-of-War slavery would be in Africa. Europeans didn't actually go and catch slaves, rather, they bought them off of Kings who sold them war-captives from various skirmishes.
It's no longer prisoner of war slavery once they are sold from the kings. From then on they are just normal slaves. And even then, why does that make slavery okay? Hint: It doesn't.


It is saying that the woman is undoubtly below the man. Its just the natural order of things.
That's pretty blatant sexism. There is no way you can argue that it isn't.

The woman came from man, if you believe the Bible that is. Also, about the passage in corinthians (in spoiler), it is saying that Husbands should love their wives and look after them as if they were their own body. It does not just say that wives should submit. Dont stop midverse. In a marriage, the spouses should both look to God, and love him, and also love each other.
And is also says again that "the husband is the head of the wife". That is still sexism, even if it's followed by saying that they love each other.

What do you have to say about 1 Corinthians 14:34-35? "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."
1 Timothy 2:9-15? "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." That's the main juicy part. Again, submission for being lesser than men. Again, blatant sexism.

If you call that sexism, sorry, thats how its written. Not that women should be meek and do nothing, but that they should submit to the husband and not get above them, or in other words take over the marriage by making important decisions. Similarily, the husband is to take counsel from the woman, and they are to act as a team, but the ultimate decision comes down to the man.
I don't call that sexism; That IS sexism. It's absolutely irrelevant as to whether or not the Bible says that men should love their wives, the fact is that the Bible continually stresses that women should also submit and be lesser than the men. That is sexism.


Some slave laws that were in the old testament are no longer in effect. We don't sacrifice lambs anymore, similarily slave laws don't really apply anymore. That would have been Judaism, I think. And in the occasion of having slaves, you are to treat them as humanly as possible.
One would hope that all slave laws in any book were no longer in effect. Where does the Bible say to "treat them humanly"? It says to treat them as property (Leviticus 25:44-46).

Additionally, how can you argue that Exodus 21:20-21 is in any way humane? "Oh yeah, you can beat them as much as you want. Just don't kill them!"
 

Gymnotide

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I feel like this thread will... Eventually turn into a church for atheists on PC (which is kind of inappropriate seeing as how atheism isn't a religion). Can we not let that happen, please?

I'm also offended that Darwin is being associated with atheism. If I had to introduce myself, I'm an evolutionist and evolutionary theorist (yeah, there's a difference). As I've expressed countless times in my writing, evolution and religion have nothing to do with each other, are neither opposites nor even in the same sphere of thought. While Evolutionary Theory is a parallel to Creationism (which is often backed by religious individuals), it by no means refutes or is refuted by any religious principle. Regardless, Evolutionary Theory is different from evolution--you can't "believe" in evolution because it's not something you /can/ believe in... It's like saying "I believe blue."

But honestly, this is the one thing that pisses me off the most. You don't need to be an atheist to know evolution occurs, nor should evolution ever be associated with the atheist philosophy.

Also, http://www.godlessquotes.com/ -- some pretty strong quotes there, but a lot take unnecessary stabs.

What are your opinions on subjects such as same-sex marriage, abortion, the death penalty, and so on? Why?
  • Yes, pro-choice, and circumstantial. I'm not going in-depth about these because my reasonings are far beyond anything religion-based or otherwise.
Why are your beliefs the way they are?
  • Religion doesn't make any sense to me. I like the moral aspect of it, but everything else is completely absurd to me. I'm a skeptic. How can something portray itself as good when it propagates so much hatred? Religion has persecuted many of my personal beliefs in the past and I've grown far from agnostic due to that. Sure, not all religions are alike, nor are all religious people extremists, but I feel like things would have turned out different if religion never existed.
Do you believe in any form of life after death?
  • No, but I want there to be... Just to see what it's like.
Do you believe in aliens?
  • Potentially. The chances of extraterrestrial lifeforms on other planets isn't zero, but it's infinitesimally small (if we're going by abiogenesis, that is).
Does your family and friends know about your faith? If no, why not?
  • My friends know that I am a staunch atheist, but that doesn't mean I'm an imposer. My family is generally too lazy to have a religion, though most of them are Buddhist superstitious.
If God does exist, what do you think it would be like?
  • I'm sort of offended that God is capitalized in that question. Anyway, if a god or gods existed, I'm sure that they would be imperceivable by human beings. After all, human perception is far from perfect--we can't see what shrimp see, smell what sharks smell, etc. If a god is omnipotent, then it makes sense that it is on a level that makes it truly transcend its... Underlings?
 

Shining Raichu

Expect me like you expect Jesus.
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I feel like this thread will... Eventually turn into a church for atheists on PC (which is kind of inappropriate seeing as how atheism isn't a religion). Can we not let that happen, please?

I'm also offended that Darwin is being associated with atheism. If I had to introduce myself, I'm an evolutionist and evolutionary theorist (yeah, there's a difference). As I've expressed countless times in my writing, evolution and religion have nothing to do with each other, are neither opposites nor even in the same sphere of thought. While Evolutionary Theory is a parallel to Creationism (which is often backed by religious individuals), it by no means refutes or is refuted by any religious principle. Regardless, Evolutionary Theory is different from evolution--you can't "believe" in evolution because it's not something you /can/ believe in... It's like saying "I believe blue."

But honestly, this is the one thing that pisses me off the most. You don't need to be an atheist to know evolution occurs, nor should evolution ever be associated with the atheist philosophy.

"A church for atheists" is kind of the idea. Non-atheists are welcomed to join and contribute to the discussion, but at the core, this is a group of people who don't believe in God and who have come together to talk about that.

Darwin and evolutionary theory may not have been intended to refute religion, but that does not put them in separate spheres of thought. They have been brought together for a reason, and that reason is that a lot of religious people do reject the concept of evolution because it's inconsistent with creation theory. I agree that evolution is common sense and the volume of evidence for it makes it not something one has the option whether or not to believe in, but lol, some people still don't.

Also - "I believe blue." - I lol'd :P

AND also - 500th post woo! XD
 
Last edited:

Gymnotide

8377 | Scorpaeniform
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"A church for atheists" is kind of the idea. Non-atheists are welcomed to join and contribute to the discussion, but at the core, this is a group of people who don't believe in God and who have come together to talk about that.

Darwin and evolutionary theory may not have been intended to refute religion, but that does not put them in separate spheres of thought. They have been brought together for a reason, and that reason is that a lot of religious people do reject the concept of evolution because it's inconsistent with creation theory. I agree that evolution is common sense and the volume of evidence for it makes it not something one has the option whether or not to believe in, but lol, some people still don't.

Also - "I believe blue." - I lol'd :P

AND also - 500th post woo! XD

My point was that being a "church" is inappropriate because atheism isn't a religion... 'Cause it's an anti-religion.

Only fundamentalists reject evolution--evolution is merely a process, not the way the process occurs. It's irrefutable that change occurs in species. The only argument you can make is denying it occurs without any grounds, which is the fundamentalist viewpoint. Also, to note Evolutionary Theory is a completely different thing. It describes how and why evolution occurs.

My point, though, was that evolution can still be a religious force (i.e. God uses evolution to spur creation). Creationism and evolution aren't in the same sphere. Evolution isn't about the creation of life, but its change. You can be Creationist and evolutionist too (but not Creationist and Evolutionary Theorist).

Furthermore, Evolutionary Theory, as expressed in the thread's titular Darwin fish image, while the opposite of Creationism, isn't an atheistic concept. Sure, radical Creationists or Bible fundamentalists may oppose it, but that doesn't mean ET itself goes against religion (as atheism does). I know quite a few religious individuals who fully understand evolution (and believe Evolutionary Theory).

Yes, evolution is pseudo-atheistic to certain radical individuals, and Evolutionary Theory even more so. However, that doesn't make it something that should be associated with atheism.

It's a fine line to draw, I know... But it's also one that needs to be expressed... For the sake of evolutionists.

'Grats on 500 :)
 

FrostPheonix

Eternity.
449
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Spoiler:


lol, some parts for some reason made me laugh. no idea y tho ^^.

Ok, first part:
The part about woman not talking in church, and to keep quiet: you have to keep this in context. It is saying that women are not to take part in the deciphering of prophecies. For reasons unknown to me, it is the male members of the congregation that are to try and make sense of the prophecy.

When it says that the woman does not have permission to be in authority over the man, it is meaning in the church. Women are not to teach men in the about the bible. Not that women are not to become president etc. Its not talking about secular positions such as teachers or president; its talking about positions in the church.

And yes, you might take it as sexism, we take it as the Bible. It is NOT irrevelant that husbands should love their wives; if that is true, the power given to them over the woman will not be misused. Bringing no real harm for the woman. The woman still has a lot of power in the household; in case you don't know, women can manipulate men to do their bidding. No offense meant to any girls here, but women do manipulate men actively. not that they should though.

Slave laws were really only there because the Isrealites, the people to whom God gave the law, wanted them (slaves). Similarily, the Isrealites got a king only because they begged God for one, even if he said they don't need one and shouldn't get one. It eventually leads to their downfall, with bad kings of Israel and Judah leading to the kingdoms being razed and captured by the Assyrians and Babylonians, I think.



Sorry that I took so long to post a reply, I needed time plus I needed some help from some other christians I knew to answer them. Since I have exams next week, I might not reply as soon next time.
 

Åzurε

Shi-shi-shi-shaw!
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I'd like to clarify something. Don't get antsy though, I'm just passing through.

For now.

Joseph's genealogy: to my understanding, Heli was Mary's father, and Joseph's father-in-law. Jacob was his literal father. As you may have realized, Jews had a very patriarchal culture, so this would have made good sense to them.

Keep on with it, Frosty. Nice to see another debate-inclined Jesus Freak around here! Visit Other Chat sometime, we'll have a ball.
 

FrostPheonix

Eternity.
449
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I'd like to clarify something. Don't get antsy though, I'm just passing through.

For now.

Joseph's genealogy: to my understanding, Heli was Mary's father, and Joseph's father-in-law. Jacob was his literal father. As you may have realized, Jews had a very patriarchal culture, so this would have made good sense to them.

Keep on with it, Frosty. Nice to see another debate-inclined Jesus Freak around here! Visit Other Chat sometime, we'll have a ball.

Yeah, the explanation makes sense.

Nice to hear that someone supports me, hope to see you around!
 
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