• Our software update is now concluded. You will need to reset your password to log in. In order to do this, you will have to click "Log in" in the top right corner and then "Forgot your password?".
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.

What does gen 8 need to bring to the table to make competitive better?

25,488
Posts
11
Years
Where I disagree is the notion that its type matchups are fully balanced. The lack of weaknesses other than Steel and Poison makes Fairies difficult to take out because those two types are otherwise underwhelming and the pokemon often have to give up a moveslot specifically to check them. The lack of types resisting Fairy has, and especially thanks to their narrow distribution, grants it very powerful offensive synergy with strong coverage types like Ghost and Ground.

Steel is one of the most prominent types in the game and most Fairy types don't have the bulk to take strong neutral attacks or have additional weaknesses because of a secondary type. Excluding Xerneas, the only viable pure Fairy is Clefable. Having to prepare for the possibility of fairies being on a team doesn't make them broken. You've also got to prepare for Steel, Water, Fire, Grass, Ground, Flying and to a lesser extent Dragon, Rock and Fighting.

The balance issues coming from Fairy comes about from its combination of powerful traits which together combine to create the strongest type in the game, not just any of its parts.

Ground and Steel are the best types in the game. Ground has been pretty much universally recognised as the best type in the game in gens 6 and 7 and as second only to broken or near-broken types in 1-5 for several generations now and Steel is the best defensive type by miles and has been since its inception.

While they are not anything particularly special about the moves and they are few in number, the type has a very precise list of moves - The type has strong 90+ BP offensive moves on both sides of the spectrum that are readily available to them and lots of special attackers get Fairy coverage in Dazzling Gleam or Moonblast. Their support moves, while few and number and situational, tend to be powerful when used in Doubles.

Few Pokemon carry Fairy moves as coverage and if they do it's usually Dazzling Gleam not the two more powerful moves. On top of that the number of Pokemon that can OHKO with Moonblast and Play Rough are not particularly high. Compare that to Earthquake which reaches the 100BP tier, hits a lot of types super-effectively and is much, much more widely spread or to Superpower and Close combat which are also quite widespread but have base 120 power and still hit a lot of types supereffectively.

The Fairy pokes in OU, namely Mimmikyu, Magerna and the Tapus, benefit greatly from having their Fairy typing because it grants them valuable STAB coverage to threaten out various threats like Garchomp and Tyranitar and their resistances are powerfully utilized to discourage Dragons.

Mimmikyu wouldn't even be in OU if it weren't for an exceptional ability. It's not a particularly good mon, it hasn't got a lot of staying power and it is barely relevant in OU anymore and will probably see a demotion to UUBL if not UU soon. Of the Tapus, only two regularly make use of Fairy moves at all and all of them tend to use their non-Fairy STAB more often because they hit more (crucial) types. It's not the Fairy type that makes Lele, Koko or Bulu threatening, the only pure Fairy types usable in higher tiers (excluding Xerneas) are Clefable and Sylveon and I wouldn't call either the premier mon on their tiers now. Discouraging Dragons isn't a point to Fairy being broken, it is why Fairy exists for the most part and is why Dragons now aren't broken. Magearna you have something of a case for but its hard to call because it's also part Steel, has a great stats, a killer ability and a versatile movepool.

On a second note, note the big boost in viability the pokemon receiving the Fairy type got on the transition to Gen VI. Even if they didn't make it to OU itself, they made at least some headway in the lower tiers. That's a testament to how strong the type really is. And that's even considering that the pokemon who got the type were often really bad beforehand.

I'd hardly say most of them got a big boost. Off the top of my head the only Pokemon that saw a really enormous boost was Azumarill with Clefable experiencing a more moderate rise. Everything else had very minimal improvement.

I'm not going to try and argue Fairy is a bad type because that's stupid. It's a very good type. It's just not so good that it breaks the game. Types that broke the game were Psychic in gen 1, it had a single weakness that might as well have not existed, was only resisted by itself and had one of the best offensive moves in the game in Psychic or Dragon in gens 3-5 where it was pretty much exclusively held by heavy hitters and only resisted by Steel, which most Dragons could cover with Fire or Ground moves. Compare this to Fairy that not only finally balanced out the type chart for the most part, but has weaknesses that are either common (Steel) or not uncommon (Poison) and few resistances/immunities... 3/4 being to types you'd have to be stupid to use against it anyway. Fairy is a great type but it's not even close to broken.
 

Nah

15,937
Posts
10
Years
  • Age 31
  • Seen yesterday
Some Pokemon did get boost from gaining Fairy type, but most of them and other Fairy types have actually fallen from prominence recently.

Gardevoir, Altaria, Azumarill, Clefable, Togekiss, and Mawile all saw a rise to OU in the Gen 6 meta, but come Gen 7 they all dropped out of it, some more than others. The only two of those that remain are Clefable because it's a fat fuck that has two great abilities and a decent movepool and Mega Mawile simply because of its sheer strength (that was once enough to get it banned to Ubers). Fairies that were new at the time like Sylveon, Klefki, and Mega Diancie were solidly OU, but haven't been so for quite a while. Florges used to be UU, but isn't anymore. A number of other Fairies (both new and old) have always been bad or been living in the lower tiers. The only ones that are solidly OU or good are the Tapus and Magearna (who are also all new Fairies), who are very good for reasons other than being Fairy type. Tapus have good stats and bring powerful field effects to the game, while Magearna is basically a steamroller that dressed up as a robotic doll.

It's a good type, but the type itself doesn't exactly dominate the competitive scene so much as a select few 'mons that also happen to be Fairies (plus His Majesty Landorus the Therian) do.

Not that the current type chart is perfect (why does Fairy resist Bug?), but there's likely other more serious issues that should be fixed before Fairies.

i don't expect anything major to ever get fixed tho
 
8
Posts
5
Years
  • Age 32
  • Seen Nov 15, 2018
Z-Moves are stupid broken, so I'm imagining something else that is suppose to encourage crazy teambuilding coming up next. I'm not hoping that Z-Moves get nerfed, but I also don't want some kind of power creep with stuff.

As for what I personally want, well here is a list:
- Another (set of) non-Mega non-Z-Crystal item(s) that can't be knocked off.
- Some item that extends the duration of Gravity (really cool mechanic, though doesn't see much use in Singles). Maybe can extend to Trick Room, but I don't know if that would be broken or not.

I might post more later, but these are just my initial thoughts.
agree on z moves I don't like them and isolate the new gen 8 pokemon from the older ones to the new ones is good idea too.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top