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Can someone explain why these cards are "game wreckers"?

~Solarys~

OMG, loli~~~!!!111oneone
414
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I've heard people saying that the following cards were banned from formal play because they are game wreckers, but I have no idea how or why:

Sneasel
Slowking
ERs

Firstly, which sets are they from? I know next to nothing about those pre-ex sets as I never played this game before R/S came out.

Secondly, why were they banned? Because it seems strange to me that they made those cards and then ban them - it doesn't make too much sense...

Just curious to know, that's all.

Thanks.
 
559
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18
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  • Seen Oct 1, 2008
I can tell you about Sneasel. From Neo Genesis, it was banned the minute it was released because back then it was deemed far too powerful. Here's the scan of it from SPP:

025-sneasel.jpg


As you can see, for just two Darkness Energy you could potentially do up to 120 damage.

And if "ERs" are Energy Removal...think of Energy Removal 2 without the coin flip. But I'm not sure if that is "ERs".
 
720
Posts
17
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  • Seen Jan 15, 2011
Firstly, very good question. These 3 cards were banned from Modified during different periods of time

Sneasel
Neo Genesis Rare.
(Theres already a pic, so I won't bother with another one).

Most importantly, is this cards brutal attack. Often the player would aim to get this card out as fast as possible and have the energy needed for Beat up, by the 2nd turn (Using whatever search/draw cards necessary) whilst filling there bench.
With a full bench (very common) the card could achieve 120 on its second turn, not including Dark Energy bonus and pluspowers. Realistically the card would achieve 60 - 80 damage with each attack, but considering the energy cost it was still effective and able to KO most early starters.
On top of this it has a free retreat, no weakness and often 3-4 are played in a deck to manipulate them.
Because of the classic '1 in 3' holos in a pack ratio, there were numerous Sneasels in the game and were easy to get hold of. Eventually it was a scenario of play Sneasel or be beaten by Sneasel.
A few months after NGs release WotC or whoever it was at the time had to step in and prevented it from being played in modified tournaments for fairer games.


Slowking
Neo Genesis Holo
slowking.jpg


Of course trainers are a critical part of a players deck, so when Slowking came along, its Mind Game Power not only negated half of there opponents trainer cards but it also returned them to the top of their deck so they could hardly draw anything new.
As well as that, Mind Games power was cumulative (more than one could be used at a time), making the trainer card % often 25% or 12.5%. The game for the opponent would often come to a stop and abrupt loss.
The attacks of this card aren't any good, so Slowking would often sit on the bench, busily annoying your opponent and avoiding half the GoWs that came its way.
This was noticed after it completely dominated the Worlds Championship 2002 and the cards reign came to an end.

(Interestingly, the Slowkings power is actually a mistranslation from the Japanese- it should be active to be played. But WotC banned it rather than correct it).

Point of interest though, both cards made the 'Sneaking' deck, before there banning, which is currently now one of the best unlimited decks.



Also I made a mistake over the ER thing. When Expedition was released they introduced Energy Removal 2, which requires a coin flip to discard an opponents energy card of your choice. Some players believed / thought that they could get away with playing the original Energy Removal (which does not require a coin flip) on the ground that it was a reprint.
PUI/WotC made it clear that ER was not allowed in modifide, so it wasn't banned since it wasn't legal to begin with.
 

Lordpenguin

Pokémon: Lodestone
244
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  • Seen Apr 5, 2012
I had a jap vrsion of that sneasel once.
And of course, I have about 20 ERs.
 

~Solarys~

OMG, loli~~~!!!111oneone
414
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Cool, thanks to jwil for clearing things up!

Are there any ex series cards banned yet? I think Nintendo is much more careful at making these cards than WOTC was after all...

I've seen some of the older cards (Base set etc), they are just not bloody playable... 70/80 HP stage 2's = WTFness, 3 colored energy for 20 damage on a stage 1 is just too common to be a surprise, and bullsh!t cards that can do up to 50 with 1 energy aren't that rare either...

Also, IMO there shouldn't be any basics with free retreat, because just those can easily wreck a game, unless you're a bench attacker like me...

EDIT: The Sneasel ex from R/S can somehow wreck the game too, but as it's an ex with a sh!tty 80HP and can't do much until the 3rd turn, so it's all right I guess...
 
Last edited:
720
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17
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  • Seen Jan 15, 2011
Nope, PUI have never banned any translated cards since they came in.

Sneasel ex has never been considered a good enough card to play. Its attacks are more costly than its original making it slower, it has a retreat, an amazingly small HP for an ex and its weakness often ensured it would be KOd incredibly quickly for the hefty loss of 2 prizes.
 

~Solarys~

OMG, loli~~~!!!111oneone
414
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LOL! Celebi ex has an amazing 70HP, and it's attacks are not too great either... =.=

That's ONE unplayable card I found in the ex series!

The second place goes to Rocket's Persian ex, 3 energy for 20 damage = WTF, but toxic is enough to be annoying, and it's power is only relatively good.

Anyway when I played with my mates we all considered Gardevoir ex to be a huge game wrecker (it's like the only good card I had back then, I have about 10 of those, lol), as it's normally an instant GG when I pull that out. But oh well, we were all newbs back then, and there weren't many good cards in the 3 earliest sets (R/S, Dragon, Sandstorm), so it might be a bit overpowered in those sets. Jumpluff from TRR beats it easy, and it's weak to grass...
 
720
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17
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  • Seen Jan 15, 2011
The second place goes to Rocket's Persian ex, 3 energy for 20 damage = WTF, but toxic is enough to be annoying, and it's power is only relatively good.

Dunno. Some people crazily played a 2-2 line in Dragtrode decks - but thats just a poor idea. Also its attack actually has a very good poison ability, and for 3C of which can be Dark energy, its not that bad.

Interestingly, Rocket's Persian ex is from Unseen Forces (as a boxtopper), a set legal in Modified. However Rockets Meowth, which it evolves from is NOT in any modified legal set. So Rocket's Persian ex is currently quite unplayable anyway! ;)
 

Nova Ophiuchi Legend

Princess of Sinnoh
2
Posts
17
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These cards look much more interesting in English then they do in Japanese. As i am aware possible, the effects are used for the neo game, with this new playing, i am assured that in game, the effects are more Higher Excelled.

and the wording is quicker to readable.

for the example of Slowking.

"Flip a coin. If heads, this attack does 20 damage plus 10 more damage and the Defending Pokémon is now confused."

that attack would be set out like this in our current playing.

"Flip a coin. If heads, this attack does 20 damage plus 10 more damage. The Defending Pokémon is now Confused."
 

~Solarys~

OMG, loli~~~!!!111oneone
414
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That's why you've got to take specific notice on the wording of the cards, as some can be very confusing the way it's expressed in English.

E.g. "ENERGY" != "ENERGY CARD(S)", as a Boost Energy = 3 "ENERGY" = 1 "ENERGY CARD".
 

Geometric-sama

The Manly Man of Steel
11,440
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20
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Dunno. Some people crazily played a 2-2 line in Dragtrode decks - but thats just a poor idea. Also its attack actually has a very good poison ability, and for 3C of which can be Dark energy, its not that bad.

Interestingly, Rocket's Persian ex is from Unseen Forces (as a boxtopper), a set legal in Modified. However Rockets Meowth, which it evolves from is NOT in any modified legal set. So Rocket's Persian ex is currently quite unplayable anyway! ;)
Alakazam* CG for the win ;)
 

Drifblim

Banned
1,773
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18
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Moral of the story? EX cards are unplayable. Very rarely will you come across one that doesn't have a dogging disadvantage for the holder.
 
720
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  • Seen Jan 15, 2011
Moral of the story? EX cards are unplayable. Very rarely will you come across one that doesn't have a dogging disadvantage for the holder.

Says who? This thread just looked into detail at 2 potential cards that were made too good. Nobody else here has come to the conclusion from this that all ex cards are unplayable.
Because very few cards can beat or have been banned like Sneasel/Slowking doesn't mean that EX cards are bad. :\
Very often, a range of cards (ex or not) achieve well in Organized Play. Whether the card is good or not is rarely effected by it being from a new or old set.

Of course ex cards have disadvantages. As do all cards.
 

~Solarys~

OMG, loli~~~!!!111oneone
414
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Just try not to get your Pokemon-ex KO'ed then you're all right...

Use Scoop Ups and SSU's if you can, or even devolve them if they're getting KO'ed - at least that way your opponent only takes 1 prize instead of 2...
 
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