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5th Gen Why so much dislike around the 5th gen?

78
Posts
7
Years
I know the people on the 5th gen section of the forums like the games, but why does it seem that BW and BW2 are so disliked by so many people? If you dislike the games, that's fine, everyone has preferences. But it seems that the majority of people don't like 5th gen. My opinions are subjective, just like everyone else. Gen 5 isn't my favourite gen btw, I just don't think it deserves the hate.

I hear people say "the Pokemon designs are bad" "the story was ok" "the anime made it bad"

1. The designs are different. Yes. But I really like a lot of them. I don't understand what everyones problem with Vanilluxe is? Its a cool (pun unintended) pokemon. Seriously, am I the only one who thought that a double ice cream cone pokemon was kinda great? We do not need another 50 versions of Charizard and Pikachu. There's over 800 pokemon, so variety is important. That being said, there were pokemon designs in 5th gen that weren't great. But that's just like any other generation.

2. I thought that BW and BW2 had one of the most intricate stories out of any of the pokemon games. Maybe not the best, but good, I thought. The plots were fairly well written and the characters like N, Ghetsis, Alder, Cheren, Bianca, I thought were pretty good. It was the first time in the pokemon series that we actually seemed to have a plot that used the gyms and elite four as a part of it. Normally the gyms and the evil team are separate.

3. I'll give you this one. The BW anime isn't great (subjective). But it shouldn't be used as an excuse to look down at the games. They are separate.

Anyways, just my opinion. My point being that I don't think gen 5 is nearly as bad as what so many people paint it to be.
 

Flowerchild

fleeting assembly
8,709
Posts
13
Years
I absolutely adore the Gen 5 games, so I'm not entirely sure where much of the dislike from some people comes from. I love this Gen because Game Freak actually took some damn risks for once, and in my opinion it totally paid off. They introduced a huge amount of new Pokémon, made a more complex and interesting story, and changed up a lot of the level design and features. I'm not at all sure why some people reject this so harshly besides normal human dislike of change I guess :/
 

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!
35,992
Posts
18
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  • Age 31
  • Seen Jul 1, 2023
See I love the games and couldn't imagine hating on them. On the other hand other generations left a lot to be desired imo.

I think the major thing is these games were the first to break away from the standard cycle. Older protagonists, different camera angles, more cutscenes, riskier Pokemon designs... but despite all that the main reason people hated these games was because of nostalgia. Only being able to get new Pokemon was a fresh new idea... but in one way it made the games seem less like Pokemon in a classic sense. Without any of the designs that everyone had grown accustomed to the games seemed more alien. If the original Pokemon were there in addition to the new ones from the start I have no doubt that BW would have been the most popular games ever.

However. In order for people to fully appreciate and get to know the brand new Pokemon there needed to be a fresh start. There needed to be a total elimination of everything from the past (other than in Dream World) so that people could accept the new designs.

Then on the other side... these games paved the way for XY, ORAS, and SM, like, anything post-Unova had some pretty dramatic formula changes - and while SM has been received wonderfully... and XY not so wonderfully... this wouldn't have been possible without the work the Unova games did. These games established that hey, change is cool, Pokemon doesn't have to be the same old thing. So tbh, the hate doesn't really matter - the games were revolutionary and that's what they should be remembered for :)
 

pkmin3033

Guest
0
Posts
Ohhh boy, here we go. The short answer is this: personal preference. As for the long answer...

I think in every generation you get good designs and bad ones. This goes all the way back to the first generation. Gen V was no different in this regard. It's lack of connection to past generations, and seeming desire to do away with literally everything that came before it, is where the problem came from. Generations I-IV all built upon and complemented one another, working together to expand upon what came before...Gen V quite literally disregarded everything, and it just wasn't good enough by itself to really do that. If you're going to start afresh and provide a soft reboot of sorts, the content needs to be there to justify it. In Black, it absolutely was not, and the best thing Black 2 did was to do away with that approach by bringing back existing Pokemon. Variety is one of the biggest draws of Pokemon, and often what makes one game better or worse than another: what you can use will determine how much you can enjoy yourself. In Black I used my starter only until after I'd beaten the first Gym, because I disliked Patrat/Lillipup and I absolutely refused to use the ugly elemental monkey I was so kindly gifted.

As for the plot and cast...well, I've never played Pokemon for the plot, because it's always minimalistic and unimaginative when compared to other RPGs. I disliked Black - and every game following it, in fact - because Game Freak were extremely pushy with it. The NPCs simply don't appear enough to get any real character development, and they were more of a nuisance than a welcome distraction. It was hard - no, impossible - to really care about any of them. I never got to know them. What did they go through on their journeys? What did they do? How were they affected by things they experienced, and how did they change? A few occasional appearances don't amount to good character development.

As with practically every Nintendo franchise, when it comes to character development, there is a huge amount of willing suspension of disbelief involved: it always happens off-screen, away from you, and you have to fill in the gaps yourself. In past titles this was never really a huge problem, because major NPCs rarely ever appeared and they weren't intended to be a part of your adventure. In Black, you were clearly supposed to care about these characters, beyond seeing them just as recurring characters on their own journeys you battled every now and then,

Out of sight, out of mind. If Game Freak wanted me to care about these characters, they should have actually bothered to develop them properly. Their failure to do so, but their insistence on making them a major part of the plot - which in past titles had always revolved solely around the player character, with NPCs only making minor appearances - is what killed it for me. It killed X and Y, and it killed Sun and Moon, too. The bottom line? Develop your characters properly if you're going to give them any major story role.

And it's always the same! Evil team wants to use mascot Legendary to take over the world, blah blah blah. Despite its vaunted promises of something different, Black turned out to be exactly the same. Swapping the order of events isn't true change; just because everything unfolded at the end of the game rather than the middle doesn't mean it was a new experience. Honestly, I think the only time they got the plot right was in Emerald, where it felt like they actually refined it by including both teams, rather than just re-telling it. Much as I love the fourth generation - and I do - I was still disappointed by the step backwards the story Diamond and Pearl took from Emerald. Black was exactly the same.

As for Black 2 and its plot...well, you can't build something on top of nothing. One problem with having characters change over a time skip is that you don't get to experience that change. So Iris is the Champion now? That's nice. When did she decide to leave the Gym and take that position? How did she beat Alder? Cheren and Bianca have moved on with their lives, but as you never really knew what their goals and aspirations were in the first place, it's meaningless.

The journey is as important as the end result, and Game Freak are always very much concerned with the end result when it comes to Pokemon characters. The entire structure of it makes proper character development impossible - you travel by yourself, as a voiceless character - and their constant attempts to integrate bland, faceless NPCs into the plot is distracting and tiresome. It's not a problem unique to the fifth generation, but it DID start here. Or at least, here is where it became more noticeable.

Historically, I don't think Gen V is as bad as some people might say - the plot hasn't changed, and the faceless NPCs in X/Y and Sun/Moon are far more intrusive, to the point that I didn't even finish Sun because I couldn't stand being interrupted by the NPCs literally every five minutes - but at the time, I couldn't stand these games because of that.

The anime I consider separate from the games, but I will say that I strongly disliked the Black/White anime for resetting Ash again after he developed so incredibly in the DPPt saga. That said, I think the games could have learned a thing or two from the anime, which actually did a good job developing recurring characters through the use of unpredictable mini tournaments spaced throughout. Those were a great way of bringing the cast together and showing how they'd improved. If the games had had something like that, they might have been much better.

I know there is a lot of negative in there, but Gen V is where I stopped enjoying Pokemon and, whilst I don't think it's the worst generation - VII gets that dubious honour - at the time it was. I like a few Gen V Pokemon quite a lot (Meloetta is actually my second favourite Pokemon) and I think Unova is a better designed region than Hoenn or Alola. But on balance, I just did not enjoy these games.
 

kitarei

☕ milk tea & 💻 code.
246
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7
Years
To this day Gen V is the only generation I never finished. I didn't complete White and I didn't even bother buying White 2.

I know this sounds weird, but the crappy-ass graphics is what ruined it for me.

The in battle graphics reminded me on Gen I.. Hahhaa. They were all pixelated and horrible. It was such an eyesore that I simply couldn't play. I get that they tried to animate everything, but I feel flat and not pixelated pokemon would have been the way better option.

Coming from DPPt and HGSS this was a significant downgrade and I just hated looking at it.
 
5,796
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7
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I don't get the hate, Generation 5 is my favorite!

It greatly improved upon DPP's graphics and speed, and made the maximum usage of the DS's capabilities. The story was unarguably the best and deep story any Pokemon game has ever had. I liked that there was 150+ pokemon introduced, it gave the region a fresh feeling without any older pokemon. The BW series was one of the 2 anime sagas I watched. (The other was indigo and orange islands). I did find it a bit obnoxious with all the fillers and Ash's bad choices, but I liked it nonetheless.
 
78
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7
Years
I can understand some peoples reasoning for disliking it, I just think that they were better games than what they're given credit for. Also, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the BW story is probably my favourite of any of the games. If you want to take it really simply, then sure, the plot is similar to other games (bad guys use legendary for bad stuff). But the story deserves more credit than that.
 

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!
35,992
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18
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  • Age 31
  • Seen Jul 1, 2023
I can understand some peoples reasoning for disliking it, I just think that they were better games than what they're given credit for. Also, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the BW story is probably my favourite of any of the games. If you want to take it really simply, then sure, the plot is similar to other games (bad guys use legendary for bad stuff). But the story deserves more credit than that.

The story really wins out (and is the main redeeming quality for most people) because of the fact that you're mislead. As a player you think for once you're finally going to have someone trying to change the world for the better... and then you discover it is all an act. The journey of N also gives it further depth because you see N really open up to the possibilities around him. It's really like a modern day cult in essence... poor N doesn't know any better until he sees the world and learns who Ghetsis really is. That in itself makes the story even more incredible.
 
4,044
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9
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This is quite interesting as when Gen 5 fist came out, I wasn't a big fan of it at all. I didn't really like the graphics or the Pokemon designs much and wasn't having too much fun playing the games. Fast forward to today, and although it's by no means my favourite Generation, I really like it, the story and region both feel really well thought out and I appreciate the Pokemon designs a lot more. So I suppose giving Generation 5 a chance and replaying it a few times may change people's opinions on it :)
 
78
Posts
7
Years
This is quite interesting as when Gen 5 fist came out, I wasn't a big fan of it at all. I didn't really like the graphics or the Pokemon designs much and wasn't having too much fun playing the games. Fast forward to today, and although it's by no means my favourite Generation, I really like it, the story and region both feel really well thought out and I appreciate the Pokemon designs a lot more. So I suppose giving Generation 5 a chance and replaying it a few times may change people's opinions on it :)

Yeah if I'm honest I wasn't sure about the games at first, but when I actually played them they grew on me really quickly. I didn't mind not having any old pokemon in the games, I was just stoked to catch the new ones. I think too many people don't give the games enough of a chance. I was on the "vanilluxe is so uncreative" bandwagon for a little bit, but the more I actually thought for myself about it, the more I realised that I really liked it, so I caught it and used it against the E4. I realised that I love the weird pokemon, they feel more unique and its nice to give them a chance.
 

smocks

fiat lux
1,393
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7
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I agree so much that it strongly comes down to personal preference.
I do have a dislike for BW & B2W2 from formerly hated Gen 5 soooooo much, but now I just dislike Gen 6 (aka I've gotten more tolerable with the games throughout the years). But, Gen 6 is the region where Pokémon hit it's plateau for me. (btw, I've completed both BW & B2W2 fully, doing the post-game elements as well)

I could go on and on and on and onn, but to sum it all up; the Unova to be simply feels too unoriginal/repetitive, unpolished, and overall a bit confusing.
I don't really have a problem with the Pokémon designs (okay, some of them I do have a problem with), but a lot of their Pokémon felt like a reboot version of previous Pokémon. For example, the Swords of Justice Trio remind me of the Legendary Dogs, the Elemental Monkeys are like the starters but worse imo, & Tepig is is just another Chimchar/Torchic that's not up to par. The rivals in BW seemed like a split of Barry in the worst way possible, with Bianca inheriting Barry's franticness & Cheren getting Barry's impatience (+ these two rivals weren't anything special and flat out annoying imo). I especially dislike Team Plasma so much, I almost hate everything about them. Their uniforms look like they were a combination of Team Galactic's with an egg, their mission/goal was so contradicting & confusing, the whole coronation backstory could've of been portrayed better because its very confusing for a 10 year-old to understand that whole concept from some images, their Pokémon selections were horrible, they weren't threatening at all, etc.

I'm just going to end it there while I can, but again, a lot of dislike for Generation 5 comes from personal preference. With playing all four generations before Generation 5, the changes GF attempted weren't that successful imo from just being a discounted rip-off version of previous Generations.
 
2,777
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16
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  • Age 31
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  • Seen Mar 30, 2024
There's a lot of hypocrisy that surrounds gen 5 hate which is very frustrating to me. There's the overused things, such as "Ice Cream and Candle Pokémon are bad because they're based on inanimate objects" but simultaneously thinking that all of gen 1's "inanimate object Pokémon" are fine, or even now, not having any qualms with gen 7's Sandcastle or Anchor-with-Seaweed Pokémon. It's complete hypocrisy. But there's even more bizarre things, like "BW's story was too much of the same." I hate to break it to you, but they're all the same. If you really think BW's story is just that "bad," or just that "samey," how can you put up with any other story presented in the main series? Honestly, story should be a moot point for people like that, because they'd all be "bad" or "samey" by that logic, so they all cancel each other out. But no, somehow when BW does "more of the same" (which, really, it's not, but people are too busy looking for any little thing to hate to realize it) it's somehow inherently worse than when gen 4 does "more of the same" or when gen 3 or gen 7 or gen any-number-at-all does it.

People will claim gen 5 was bad because it was "linear," but they don't bat an eye at gen 6 and gen 7 being being not only more linear but more hand-holdy, too. People will complain that gen 5's Pokémon sprites were "pixelated," when in reality there wasn't much they could do when trying to have dynamic camera angles in a sprite-based game. But gen 7's jarringly pixelated textures all across the board? That's fine, no problem! Gen 5 trying to subtly homage gen 1 by making some new Pokémon with similar archetypes, such as Sawk-and-Throh to Hitmonlee-and-Hitmonchan? So unoriginal! Gen 7 literally having recolors of gen 1 Pokémon and calling them "all-new forms?" The best idea ever! So. Many. Double. Standards.


Gen 5 has the best narrative out of all the main series games. No other titles thus far have taken such care to develop their characters, themes, and symbolisms in the manner in which gen 5 did. If people didn't want to formulate their own thoughts on them or couldn't comprehend what was happening, that's their own fault--stories should not have to spoon-feed every little thing to the audience, and gen 5 handled this balance between direct detail and strong implication very, very well. Features-wise, BW didn't have such a spectacular post-game, but B2W2 more than makes up for it and simultaneously emerges with one of the best if not the best post-game in the entire main series (and since people can overlook DP's flaws because of how great Platinum was, they should similarly be able to see past BW's lack of post-game and appreciate B2W2's, lest I add one more point to the double-standards list).

Gen 5 is fantastic and just like anything that is fantastic there will be people who don't understand it or actively hate on it just for the sake of doing so. It's certainly a shame and it's always hard to see the things we love being viewed negatively, but like N learned, there will always be people whose views conflict with yours. And even though you don't see eye-to-eye and it may feel bad to hear people saying bad things they're still necessary components in the formula of it all. Without people who dislike gen 5, there couldn't be people who like it, after all.

TL;DR: Just ignore the haters, gen 5 is best gen.
 
78
Posts
7
Years
I think my point has gotten lost a bit. I wasn't saying that anyone who dislikes anything about 5th gen is an idiot. My point was that many people automatically hold 5th gen below the other gens without really thinking about the pros/cons. Sure, Colours, you've brought up some good points. But the thing is, those criticisms can be made about the other generations as well. This is exactly my point. The games are held so far below other gens by many people, and why? Because it has the same problems as other gens? That is what doesn't make sense.
Also, (my opinion) hating a pokemon just because its an ice cream, or a candle, is stupid. Its like hating someone because they have darker or lighter skin. If your criticism is of the design, then fine (even though I strongly disagree). but don't hate a pokemon just because GF took a chance and tried some more creative designs.
 

pkmin3033

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Black and White have a lot of the same problems that other generations have, but I think it is the presentation of those problems that make it more difficult for some to appreciate them. It was easy to ignore the lack of any real plot in prior Pokemon titles, at least for me, because the focus was on your journey as a trainer. The evil team was just another obstacle in your path, a way for you to acquire the mascot Legendary. It didn't have a plot to speak of, really. These things were just distractions to break up the linearity of challenging Gyms; something else for you to do on your adventure. Key words, there: your adventure.

In Black/White, it's no longer just your adventure. You have faceless NPCs constantly in your face, and they're supposed to play pivotal roles in the plot. The story has expanded beyond you as a player and, whilst you could argue that this is a good thing, to me at least, the characterisation of these NPCs isn't there to support it. As I've said, Pokemon is just not a series designed with proper storytelling in mind; the format just doesn't allow for it.

You travel by yourself, and you have no voice. You are your character, you're not playing a role as such, or seeing things from the perspective of a fictional character designed by the developers, who interacts with and has relationships with other characters. You're just...there. You encounter characters very rarely and they have very little in the way to speak of in terms of visible personality or character growth. They're just recurring NPCs. Not characters in their own right as you would get in another RPG. In any other RPG franchise, at the very least, your rivals would travel with you, and you could expect to face the villains constantly. The focus is always going to be on you, the player character, especially in a game like Pokemon. That's the perspective you play as, and the one you're going to see. Generally speaking, things need to happen around you for you to be invested in them. You need to witness and be a part of these events; characters need to grow and develop with you, and not off on their own where you never get to see it. You need to be a part of the events, and feel like you're a part of the world.

I will give X/Y their due at this point and say that, initially, they attempted to do this by starting you off at the same time as part of a group of characters, and in Sun/Moon the bloody NPCs just wouldn't leave you alone for five minutes. Black/White never really did this, though. It's ironic that this actually makes them better than previous generations when it should make them worse, but the problem is in the approach, and Game Freak have been pushing it more and more with each game, even though it's a terrible approach to make if you want to tell a story with a recurring cast of characters.

Personally, I see Black/White as the start of a lot of problems - most of them narrative and characterisation-based - that have continued in the series from that point forward, and I dislike them as I dislike the other Pokemon titles that have taken that approach. They're not the worst titles, because this is a problem that has been getting steadily worse with each generation. But compared to previous titles I think they ARE lacking. If you're going to soft reboot a franchise like this, and do away with everything that came before it, the content needs to be just as good – if not better – to justify that approach. It wasn't there. If you're going to tell a story, you also need to SHOW that story unfolding, not just TELL and expect automatic acceptance from the audience. We have our own minds and opinions, and we should be allowed to use them. As I said, willing suspension of disbelief. It's something you do need to appreciate a story, but Gen V and onwards are practically built on it.

I don't play Pokemon for the plot, and I don't appreciate having it forced on me in this manner. If I'm going to play a game for the plot, I want to see evidence of development and growth. I want to CARE about the characters being put to me. I understand what the developers are trying to do; I know what I'm "supposed" to see. I just think it's lazy and poorly handled, and just not suitable for the format of the games. If you travelled with the characters and interacted with them constantly, it would be another matter. But you don't and, really, that wouldn't work in a title like this. Personally, I think it better not to have these things than to have them poorly handled this way. It worked for literally every game before this one.

You cannot have character development by proxy. You need to see and experience these things first hand. Having a character just appear from time-to-time to tell you things isn't proper character development, and nor is it good storytelling. I don't give a damn if N is out there somewhere fighting the good fight. I want to see what he's doing, and I want to know why he does it. I want to see him make choices, and I want to judge him myself for those choices. I don't want an information dump at the end, an "oh, this is my backstory, and what I've been doing that you haven't seen" sort of thing, because that in no way justifies never getting to see or experience what the character describes for myself. I don't want to be told what to think or feel and then left to decide how I'm going to do that. I want to be shown a situation and then allowed to interpret it for myself. I suppose that's personal preference, but it's not what Black/White does with its approach to storytelling.

It was the same with characters in X/Y and S/M - I know they're out there, on their own journeys, and I see the results of those journeys when I battle them with stronger teams...but that is all I see. They have no personality, no presence. They're just recurring NPCs...even appearing as much as they do, they're still just NPCs. It's not good characterisation, and it's not good storytelling. It's telling a story, yes, but telling it in the most direct and literal way possible: it's spoon feeding. You're being told what to think, and how to process it. You're not allowed to interpret for yourself what happened, because you never SEE what happened. You are clearly supposed to care, and you're told why, and the game enforces that with an iron clad demand and never shows you anything to let you form your own opinion...it never shows you anything. It just tells. Show, don't tell!

Game Freak have shifted their focus slightly away from the player and to these recurring NPCs as of Gen V and it's just not compatible with the format of the gameplay, because they're NPCs. The gameplay focus is always going to be on you, the player character, but it never feels like you're part of events. They're just happening around you now, to these recurring NPCs you rarely ever get to see, and are told what to think about when you DO see them. At least in my opinion. What you get out of it depends, I suppose, on how willing you are to read between the lines. I'd like to actually see some lines before I start trying to look between them. I don't appreciate being told what to think and then just left to my own devices to figure out why I should think it. The journey is just as important as the end result. That's just my perspective, as someone who plays story-based RPGs a lot and never played Pokemon for that, and does not appreciate the sudden shift Game Freak decided to take with Gen V.

Yes, the plot has always been minimalistic and unimaginative. Yes, the NPCs have always been faceless and under-developed. But the focus prior to Gen V was always on you, the player. It was a criticism you could make, but it wasn't a problem. That focus shifted in Gen V, and the content was not there to justify it, and it became a problem. Maybe my standards are too high because I play story-based RPGs and I'm used to complex, multi-faceted characters who I get to witness develop and judge for myself. I'm used to being a part of the story, not just watching it unfold around me. Not just playing in a world, but being a part of that world. With Gen V, the approach to storytelling and character development was tell, not show. I don't appreciate being told.

Creativity, I think, is a subjective matter. People are always going to whine about designs of Pokemon, and this is something every generation has had. Every generation. People hate that DPPt had so many pre-evolutions/evolutions of old Pokemon and Legendaries. People hate that X/Y had too few Pokemon and Mega Evolutions. People hate that S/M had too few Pokemon and a few redesigned old Pokemon. Gen V is hardly the only one to get criticised for lack of creativity.

Part of the problem, I think, is nostalgia, and the standalone nature of Gen V. Five generations in, a lot of fans are significantly older, video gaming as a hobby has changed COMPLETELY since Pokemon was first released in the Gameboy era, and it's more of the same. It's trying to be something new by doing away with everything that came before, but it is nothing new. That pretense is going to attract a lot of criticism...rightfully so, in my opinion. Maybe the content doesn't deserve criticism, but the presentation of that content certainly does. Objectively you could argue that this doesn't make it any better or worse than past generations, and I would personally agree with you from a pure gameplay perspective - keeping the same base gameplay formula and making small additions to it over time is how series work; it's the same for everything - but that's not going to be how a lot of people see it. You could argue it's their fault for having different expectations, but...well, presentation is everything, and there are arguments for and against blame being laid on Game Freak and on the player.

Pokemon also suffers from its reputation; it was a craze when it was first released in the West, and people expect a certain standard. They are going to do everything they can to pull it down and tear it to pieces. It's the same with every popular video game franchise...hell, with Pokemon not as popular as it once was, it gets off easy here. But that's the thing. Expectations change, and the games don't change enough to keep up with them. Gen V isn't unique to that, but the timing of their release likely has something to do with the criticisms. As new games are released, the flaws of the previous ones are highlighted, and people neglect the context of the times. You can see this isn't a problem unique to Gen V - look at Gen VI's reception now than Sun and Moon are out. Things can always be better and, when things ARE better, the old things just don't seem quite as good. That's generally how it goes.

Honestly, I don't think it matters, and I don't see why people get so uptight over differing opinions as if a majority viewpoint makes for an objective fact. It doesn't. I'm not even sure it IS a majority viewpoint in this instance and is instead just a very vocal minority. I will very cautiously agree with the point that perhaps some people don't form their own opinion entirely and judge based off popular opinion at the time, but if they do then isn't that their problem? And if they don't, aren't they entited to dislike something, the same way you're allowed to like it? Nobody is FORCING you to agree or disagree, and there is no objective right or wrong answer. The games are what they are, you either like them or you don't. If lots of people don't...well, too bad for them. They don't have to play them. It doesn't detract from your enjoyment of them. Maybe you're sick of hearing people complain. I'm sure they're just as sick of you singing its praises. It goes both ways.

It doesn't really matter if more people dislike than like the games. If you don't like them, you don't have to play them - and nor do you have to keep quiet about it. Just don't act like they're objectively bad games because they don't cater to your every whim and desire...and if anyone interpreted my viewpoint as saying that; I apologise, because that wasn't what I intended to convey...I shouldn't have to say constantly that my opinion is my opinion, though. If you do like them, then good for you! You had a good experience, and that's not a bad thing, and you don't have to keep quiet about it either. Just don't keep acting like a criticism of the games you like is a criticism of you as a person, because - unless someone is just being a prick - it really isn't, and don't act like people are wrong for not agreeing with you.

...and maybe I went off the point a little towards the end there. But eh. I didn't like the games, I know why and I have perfectly valid reasoning for that - as I hope I've explained - and I can understand why people wouldn't have liked them for other reasons, even if I don't agree with those reasons. I can also see why people enjoyed them even if I disagree with that. There is no objectivity to be found in opinions.
 
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Mister Torgue

Banned
38
Posts
7
Years
Aside from whatever has been mentioned, some quality-of-life things were removed such as rematching trainers for fun and of course extra EXP. It was annoying from the 1st BW where there were no rematchable trainers other than the E4. In BW2 there are the Breeder NPCs but again, that wasn't enough to remedy the problem.

Also, this is the gen where the Starters are not as "strong" as say 3rd and 4th gen ones due to the lack of base Speed save for Serperior. Heck, even 7th has issues with slow starters but it really began here in the 5th gen but thankfully 6th gen (Kalos) starters didn't have that issue.
 

Iria Animi

Innocent Trainer
59
Posts
7
Years
There wasn't any re-match gym leader battle and also trainning low leveled pokemon could been difficult in the later stages.
 
78
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7
Years
In terms of story and character development, the games have very much been imagination based from the first generation. This is visible in the fact that we rarely see our friends or rivals, and our character doesn't speak. Background events are mostly left to imagination. We chalk it up. We decide what happened to certain characters or how they think, or what lead up to certain events, based on what we know. Game Freak haven't changed this, they've simply tried to do as much as they can with their original formula. The games were trying something different. What would pokemon be right now if Game Freak just remade the same games but set in a different place every few years? You need to try to grow, in order to grow. I'm happy having a speechless protagonist. The point of this, is that its the players journey. We all play pokemon for mostly the same reasons. Choosing our team, catching pokemon, training, figuring out strategies, winning. The developers know this. They're just trying to make our journey more interesting.

Again my point is getting lost. I'm not saying anything other than why are these games held so low. I have been given responses from both sides. I know why some people dislike them now. I do not need a memo on how freedom of thought or speech works, thank you very much.
 

pkmin3033

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Again my point is getting lost. I'm not saying anything other than why are these games held so low. I have been given responses from both sides. I know why some people dislike them now. I do not need a memo on how freedom of thought or speech works, thank you very much.
Given that in your earlier post you were calling people who hated the designs of Pokemon of the fifth gen - which are reasons they will be held in low regard - stupid, I think you DO need that memo. Disliking the designs is one aspect of this and, whether you agree with it or not, it's a perfectly valid line of thought. If you don't want people to call you out on that, try not attacking them personally for their preferences.

...and I realise I'm de-railing the thread by responding to that, but my point is that hating the designs is no more or less "stupid" than hating the plot, or the region, or the graphics, or any other aspect of the game. When it's a subjective matter, everything is equally valid. Whether you agree with it or get an explanation for it or whatever else. People will like what they like.
 
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78
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7
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??? I haven't attacked anyone? at the beginning of the thread I said I understand that everyone has different preferences? I said that if you dislike a design that's fine. What I said is that you shouldn't dislike a pokemon just because it is or isn't something. E.g. an ice cream cone. I explicitly stated that if you think the design is bad, then that's fine. I said if you dislike it purely because its an ice cream cone then that's kind of stupid. You can interpret that as an attack if you really want to. I'm not trying to attack you either way. I've tried to be respectful to everyone here. Obviously its not come off that way, so I apologise. You can dislike whatever you want. Maybe I shouldn't listen to people who dislike it, but I didn't start this thread to bash people who do dislike it. Everyone has been given a fair chance to give their 2 cents. And so far, no one here has said that they dislike a pokemon purely because it is an ice cream or a candle. So therefore my "attack" doesn't apply to anyone here anyways. I'm aware that I've probably contradicted myself somewhere, but I mean no harm to anyone.

Back to the actual thread, I guess I'm different to a lot of people, because I like every pokemon, whether its design or abilitiy or its stats are bad I don't care, I want more, so I guess I was just happy to get 150 new pokemon, regardless of what they looked like.
 
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1
Posts
7
Years
  • Age 21
  • Seen Apr 12, 2017
Why do you guys hate the Fifth gem?

Ok First,im a newbie
Second,This is a post where i will DESTROY all arguments about Fifth gem being bad
Third i would wanna that only Haters from Fifth gem and i talk in this post so this mean
NO BACKUP
I Would like two arguments about fifth gem being bad
after that,you can say how much arguments you want
if someone can DESTROY my arguments too,well... im going join the haters :P
and last: Don't offend no one :)
ps:theses DESTROY is just a joke,not really :P
 
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