Does Islam have a place in our moderne world?

Considering the tidbits about women's rights, jihad and other unpleasantries, it makes me wonder if it would be better for everyone to get rid of Islam once and for all. Now, it's true that all religions would have their good and bad eggs but it's Islam that seems to pop up most often.

It does have a place in the modern world, it's already there? It's not like all muslim people are backwards savages living in caves or whatever, they're just people who live everywhere. What you're against is fundamentalist islam, because i can't really say any of those things even really apply outside of that (it's like nabbing bible quotes about not eating shrimp or selling your wives or whatever and holding that up as the way christian people live)

I'm not really sure what you mean with jihad though, since it's not even an unpleasant thing, really? Unless you're specifically talking about the suicide bombing sort of thing, which is just a twisting of the scripture on that anyway

I don't think any religion has a place in the modern world, or at least not in the position to dictate how we should live life and by what values we should adhere. I think it ultimately does more wrong than good.

Fundamentalism of any kind has no place in a contemporary society but modern religion has a place so long as people have those beliefs. I don't understand why people try to act as though Islam is somehow different to other religions, it's not. It's largely identical to Christianity even.

There are a lot of points made in the Bible that have no place in modern society, as much as the Quran, as was mentioned earlier. The outstanding concern that lies against Islam are the significant populations that embrace the points and vow to incorporate it into modern society (noticeably more than other religions).

I entirely agree that not all Muslims agree with jihadism or the majority of anti-Western sentiment, but an amount large enough to cause multiple levels of great harm does.

Religion, as far as I am concerned, is not meant to replace law or personal morality, but to invoke a sense of spirituality and hope for being something more than a randomly created lifeform. I don't particularly care for religion but I can certainly understand it's importance in a society that is constantly looking for a reason to exist.

In short, extremism and fundamentalism need to go, but religion as a means of connection can and perhaps should stay.

gimmepie said:

Fundamentalism of any kind has no place in a contemporary society but modern religion has a place so long as people have those beliefs. I don't understand why people try to act as though Islam is somehow different to other religions, it's not. It's largely identical to Christianity even.

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Dare I say that they are equal, going by their fundamental values. The only difference is that the European societies (largely based on Christianity) went through the filter of Enlightenment, removing a lot of foul elements that came from the Bible (hitting children is a big one).

I think a lot of Muslims and a lot of Islamic countries are ready for a similar kind of Enlightenment. However, the fundamentalists on top of society will prevent that from happening to maintain own power. This is the most important thing that needs to be removed IMO, otherwise Islam is just as viable to have a place in modern (secular!) society as Christianity, Judaism, and any other religion.

OP, why are you specifically targeting Islam when there are other religions as well that are just as culpable of archaic teachings that should be considered absurd in modern day society?

Gengar666 said:

OP, why are you specifically targeting Islam when there are other religions as well that are just as culpable of archaic teachings that should be considered absurd in modern day society?

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Perhaps because Islamic extremism is more widespread in today's world than extremism rooted in other religions/cultures.

KetsuekiR said:

Perhaps because Islamic extremism is more widespread in today's world than extremism rooted in other religions/cultures.

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You know, I don't know if that's actually true. Just look at the amount of Christian fundamentalism present in the modern US.
It's certainly the most widely publicised though.

gimmepie said:

You know, I don't know if that's actually true. Just look at the amount of Christian fundamentalism present in the modern US.
It's certainly the most widely publicised though.

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I think there is a fairly solid line between fundamentalism and extremism. Looking at religious causes of extremism in the US exclusively, there isn't a large gap in prominent Islamic extremism over other religions (which is still disproportionate as it is a country with vastly more non-Muslims than Muslims). On a world stage, it becomes more apparent.

That isn't to say Islam is a worse religion than others, or that others don't have archaic teachings that can be interpreted as violent. It just is how it is.

KetsuekiR said:

I think there is a fairly solid line between fundamentalism and extremism.

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They always kinda seemed the same to me, so what's the difference exactly?

Islam and any religion can exist all they want, but a state should not be governed by religious laws and adhering to a religion's traditions and rules should be completely voluntary. Countries where islam is a major religion at this day and age seem to be bad at making that distinction, so that's a pity.

Nah said:

They always kinda seemed the same to me, so what's the difference exactly?

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I think Ketsu probably defines extremism as acting on fundamentalism to affect others but I share an opinion more like your own.

Nah said:

They always kinda seemed the same to me, so what's the difference exactly?

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gimmepie said:

I think Ketsu probably defines extremism as acting on fundamentalism to affect others but I share an opinion more like your own.

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Correct, and so my point was that cases of people acting on Islamic fundamentalism are more common on a global level than cases of people acting on fundamentalism of other religions.

People act on fundamental Christian values daily. Orthodox Christian values in Russia on a large scale (yo Stacey Dooley). It's just about what's in the news.

I mean, you'd probably find there are more Christian "attack" in local US/UK/Europe news of the media mentioned it in their headline, unfortunately they tend to avoid it...

Religions in general have no place in modern world.

BronzeHeart92 said:

Now, it's true that all religions would have their good and bad eggs but it's Islam that seems to pop up most often.

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Uh, that's because Islamophobia is so prominent right now. Back in Germany in the 1930's, the Nazi party used Jewish people as the scapegoat for the country's financial woes. Anti-Semitism was very prominent, so people at the time would probably have said "Judaism seems to pop up the most often, does it have a place in the modern world?" Thanks to that kind of thinking, millions of my people were systematically discriminated against and eventually murdered in concentration camps. This is a dangerous rabbit hole.

The "tidbits about women's rights, jihad and other unpleasantries" you claim are unique to Islam have been present in most of the biggest religions, notably Christianity. Fundamental Christians have pretty strict ideas about the roles of women in society. In the name of Christianity, millions of people throughout history have been persecuted, forced to convert, and killed. A significant number of terror attacks in the US are actually perpetrated by Christians, such as those acts of violence against abortion clinics and doctors who provide and advocate for abortion.

Christians are the ones most trying to force others to adhere to their beliefs in North America - think of all of the politicians who insist everyone who doesn't believe the same thing as them must be immoral, and the Christian schools and employers who insist that they can't let those under them have access to birth control due to their own beliefs. As someone who identifies as a secular Jew in North America, I certainly feel that Christians impose their religion on others the most.

I'm really not a fan of organized religion in general, but it's pretty obvious that a lot of "skepticism" of Islam hints at a deeper Islamophobia.

~Psychic

Psychic said:

Back in Germany in the 1930's, the Nazi party used Jewish people as the scapegoat for the country's financial woes.

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Yes, but at the same time, I do not recall any Jewish attacks on civilian populace in Nazi Germany. No car bombs detonated down town, no shopping districts filled with more lead than Black Hawk Down, no non-Jewish civilians hanging from street lights, etc and so forth.

Because of this, I think it's a bad example. Big difference between being a scapegoat because people are in positions of financial power, and because some members are massacring innocents in the name of a paperback.

Arsenic said:

Yes, but at the same time, I do not recall any Jewish attacks on civilian populace in Nazi Germany. No car bombs detonated down town, no shopping districts filled with more lead than Black Hawk Down, no non-Jewish civilians hanging from street lights, etc and so forth.

Because of this, I think it's a bad example. Big difference between being a scapegoat because people are in positions of financial power, and because some members are massacring innocents in the name of a paperback.

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As you can see from the rest of my post, I believe the sexism, violence, and pushing of one's beliefs onto others that people are claiming to be issues in Islam is far more comparable to Christianity than Judaism. The parallels with Christianity was the focus of 2/3 of my post. I am curious to see how people to respond to that.

I brought up anti-Semitism because BronzeHeart92 specifically said "all religions would have their good and bad eggs but it's Islam that seems to pop up most often." I agree that "all religions have their good and bad eggs," but the reason "Islam seems to pop up most often" right now is due to rising Islamophobia that is being intentionally stoked by xenophobic right-wingers. Christians have committed quite their share of terrorist acts lately - most White Nationalists are Christians, after all - but there is a curious lack of anti-Christian sentiment.

I just find it telling that if we're going to talk about issues with "women's rights, [religiously-motivated attacks] and other unpleasantries" motivated by religion, we go right past Christianity to Islam.

~Psychic

On the topic of religion... I think it should go because.. it has little relevance to today's times. People can disagree with this statement all they want.. But with every religion's rhetoric that they're all the "right" or "true" one is just abusive supremacy. With an overwhelming amount of different "beliefs" it's unfathomable to come to any true conclusion. The cards are stacked against us and from there you can deduce really what's the true purpose.

An important point to make about religion in general is that there are genuinely good people who follow, however, unbeknownst to them that their... "goodness" is just misplaced in the world and generally speaking aren't open to any criticism. My complaint is that this behavior of not wanting to listen or be challenged and jump in blindly with faith is going to lead to many problems in the world where people would not think about critical decisions that can affect outcomes or our futures.. It holds us back ultimately (I believe and know this)..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZpJ7yUPwdU&t
This guy is absolutely brilliant on the subject.. I don't second guess about religion anymore. It is for the most part inconceivable and to put it bluntly a waste of time. We can accomplish more individually (or as a community) without it. Though it goes without saying.. usually any extremity of beliefs are always bad. Logic and reason I think is the only real tool we can utilize in this world.

This video also brings up a lot of bad points of many people of Islam, other religions, and people in power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UeJzbx1iu0 You can see the instability with the.. beliefs.. It's disgusting.