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  #176    
Old October 25th, 2012 (5:08 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
I commend Representative Akin for his principled defense of human life, and I commend Representative Broun for dismissing the evolution myth, and affirming his faith in Christ Our Lord.

Akin was Mr. Legitimate Rape, no? How is that defending human life? Also: If Broun is dismissing the evolution theory, then get him and Akin both while you're at it off the Board of Sciences and Technology. Legitimate rape? If someone engages in unwilling penetration of another, that is rape, no ifs ands or buts. And evolution actually has scientific backing, things we can prove. Creationism does not except for a book filled with rhetoric and a heck of a lot of faith.
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  #177    
Old October 25th, 2012 (5:59 AM).
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Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
I commend Representative Akin for his principled defense of human life, and I commend Representative Broun for dismissing the evolution myth, and affirming his faith in Christ Our Lord.
How was Akin's statement that women who were "legitimately raped" could not get pregnant commendable in any way? It is factually incorrect at its core. It has nothing to do with protecting human life.
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  #178    
Old October 25th, 2012 (8:35 AM).
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In case anyone is interested, a definition of 'Faith'
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  #179    
Old October 25th, 2012 (9:06 AM).
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I understand that some people find it commendable that a person who believes in the life-at-conception idea or the everything-happens-for-a-reason idea would not compromise their believes and so also believe that rape happens for a reason and that abortion shouldn't be allowed because of it, but I think that when confronted by the the logical progression of this argument to its natural conclusion that if they didn't reevaluate what they believed then there are some serious issues they need to work through.

For a political candidate I think it's an unforgivable viewpoint. It speaks of a lack of understanding of biology (there is no "point" of conception - it's a process) and of sympathy for other human beings (because you'd let someone suffer needlessly for your believe that their suffering is meant to happen).
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  #180    
Old October 25th, 2012 (10:29 AM).
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I seriously do not like having rape discussed as a political issue because of any pro-lifer's views on it. All rape is bad and should never be used by either pro-choice or pro-life as an issue. If anyone believes that "legitimate rape" actually works, why not go talk to a woman who was raped and had a baby she was forced to have because of it?

Todd Akin may stand by his views as pro-life, but he is so wrong. Rape is rape and can never have ANY other definitions to it. Period.
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  #181    
Old October 25th, 2012 (10:51 AM).
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For me rape is not a political issue. Rape is a crime plain and simple, a violation against another person's rights. I really think they shouldnt be trying to make it into anything else or trying to redefine it or anything else like that.
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  #182    
Old October 25th, 2012 (12:03 PM). Edited October 25th, 2012 by Keiran.
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    Why do we even let people use faith as a reason behind a stance about something like abortion anyway? Aren't we supposed to be keeping religion out of government? I'm sure if only women could be robbed/mugged/murdered, most Republicans would think all of that happens for a reason? "Oh I'm sorry, the insurance won't cover the funeral. She was murdered, which is a pre-existing condition since God intended for it to happen since he created the world."



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
    I commend Representative Akin for his principled defense of human life, and I commend Representative Broun for dismissing the evolution myth, and affirming his faith in Christ Our Lord.
    Evolution myth.
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      #183    
    Old October 25th, 2012 (1:12 PM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shiny Celebi View Post
    For me rape is not a political issue. Rape is a crime plain and simple, a violation against another person's rights. I really think they shouldnt be trying to make it into anything else or trying to redefine it or anything else like that.
    Politicians are the ones who define rape in the first place, since rape laws are written by politicians. The currently accepted definition of rape is actually rather new. Rep. Akin could consider "legitimate rape" as a the common law defintion. That was: Any forceful sexual penetration of a woman by a man, not her husband, without her consent.
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      #184    
    Old October 25th, 2012 (1:26 PM). Edited October 25th, 2012 by Shiny Celebi.
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
    Politicians are the ones who define rape in the first place, since rape laws are written by politicians. The currently accepted definition of rape is actually rather new. Rep. Akin could consider "legitimate rape" as a the common law defintion. That was: Any forceful sexual penetration of a woman by a man, not her husband, without her consent.
    Ok so let me see if I get this. Basically what that means is only forcible sexual penetration would be considered rape, not any other sexual act forced on a person? Penetration is not the only thing that can be forced on people sexually. That seems like a very restrictive definition. That makes me rather uncomfortable.
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      #185    
    Old October 25th, 2012 (1:54 PM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shiny Celebi View Post
    Ok so let me see if I get this. Basically what that means is only forcible sexual penetration would be considered rape, not any other sexual act forced on a woman? Penetration is not the only thing that can be forced on women. That seems like a very restrictive definition. That makes me rather uncomfortable.
    All this talk about rape being something only women can be victims of is making me uncimfortable. And, if I'm correct the definition RECENTLY changed in America to include men as potential victims.
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      #186    
    Old October 25th, 2012 (2:12 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
      Politicians are the ones who define rape in the first place, since rape laws are written by politicians. The currently accepted definition of rape is actually rather new. Rep. Akin could consider "legitimate rape" as a the common law defintion. That was: Any forceful sexual penetration of a woman by a man, not her husband, without her consent.
      A husband can't rape their wife? Does "no" mean nothing if she's his legal property?
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        #187    
      Old October 25th, 2012 (2:15 PM). Edited October 25th, 2012 by Mr. X.
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
      Politicians are the ones who define rape in the first place, since rape laws are written by politicians. The currently accepted definition of rape is actually rather new. Rep. Akin could consider "legitimate rape" as a the common law defintion. That was: Any forceful sexual penetration of a woman by a man, not her husband, without her consent.
      Talk about idiocy.

      It's rare, compared to women, but men can be raped as well.

      Edit - @Keiran.

      The bible treats women like properly. I think we, Freaky included, can be thankful that this particular biblical value isn't followed.

      Anyway, wrote this out earlier but it didn't send. :/

      I find it strange that religious people believe in abstinence, and say that it is the only 100% effective form of birth control. The fact that modern Christianity exists proves that abstinence isn't effective. Remember the virgin Mary? Was still a virgin, yet she somehow got pregnant? Yeah. Act of God? Perhaps, but it shows that abstinence isn't 100% effective.

      The fact that this happens makes it even stranger that religious people are against contraceptives. We've already shown that abstinence isn't effective, and assuming that it is and this pregnancy was a act of God, then doesn't that mean that if a women is meant to have a child, she will have one no matter what she does or doesn't do?

      Christians shouldn't spend their time hating on contraceptives, because if their God is really as powerful as they like to believe then I really, REALLY, doubt that some plastic or a pill would be able to stop a pregenancy, what they consider a "Act of God".

      ... Or, God could have... You know... decided to use Legitimate Rape to knock up Mary with Jesus.
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        #188    
      Old October 25th, 2012 (2:18 PM).
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      No one has the right to force sex on anyone Any person has the right to say no.
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        #189    
      Old October 25th, 2012 (3:00 PM).
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      Spoiler:

      Yes and no.

      While it's a very good baseline, like always their are exceptions.

      What if both are drunk, from their own doing?
      What if one are drunk, from his/her own doing?
      What if the person is bipolar?
      Or suffers from MPD (Multipule Personality Disorder)/DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder)?

      I suppose that 1 and 2 would fall under right versus ability (Although, this can be argued.), but what about 3? Given the possibility for massive personality, and emotional, shifts something like this would be very hard to apply that baseline to.


      Yeah, I think we need to get back to politics.
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        #190    
      Old October 25th, 2012 (3:16 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Keiran777 View Post
      A husband can't rape their wife? Does "no" mean nothing if she's his legal property?
      Until recently, sex was considered to be an implied term of the marriage contract, meaning that a woman was contractually obligated to have sex with her husband. Also, until recently, rape had to have a female victim, and a male perpetrator. It also had to be both forceful and non-consensual.

      P.S.
      Christians don't hate on contraceptives.
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        #191    
      Old October 25th, 2012 (6:58 PM).
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        ^ been reading alot of comments
        1) almost all catholic Orthodox and some protestants belive in evolution so more than 80% of christainty believes evolution
        2)we kinda do hat on contraceptive IDK why
        3)rape has been a round since pre-Greek times so politicans don't define rape
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          #192    
        Old October 25th, 2012 (7:04 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Rodriguezjames55 View Post
        ^ been reading alot of comments
        1) almost all catholic Orthodox and some protestants belive in evolution so more than 80% of christainty believes evolution
        2)we kinda do hat on contraceptive IDK why
        3)rape has been a round since pre-Greek times so politicans don't define rape
        Yup. Catholic Church is a-ok with evolution.

        I think officially, Catholics aren't big on contraception. But... in practice? Uhh... no. They use it. Overwhelmingly so. Kinda like "I'm Catholic, but you know not Catholic" XD
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          #193    
        Old October 25th, 2012 (7:05 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Rodriguezjames55 View Post
        ^ been reading alot of comments
        1) almost all catholic Orthodox and some protestants belive in evolution so more than 80% of christainty believes evolution
        2)we kinda do hat on contraceptive IDK why
        3)rape has been a round since pre-Greek times so politicans don't define rape
        1) Consensus doesn't make something true.
        2) Christians don't hate on contraceptives. We just don't believe that we should be forced to provide them.
        3) That depends on if you're talking about what is commonly accepted to be rape by custom, or the legal definition of rape. If you were to be arrested and charged with rape, the definition that politicians in your jurisdiction came up with would be the standard.
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          #194    
        Old October 25th, 2012 (7:41 PM).
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        So... Does this mean that God doesn't exist? Religion is, basically, a consensus of people that beleive God exists so...

        Some do, some don't. It varies state by state and denomination by denomination.

        Rape is Rape. I don't see why people try to make it seem less of a crime by saying 'Its a custom.' If anything, rape being apart of your customs mean you have some pretty ****** customs, and you need to change them.
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          #195    
        Old October 25th, 2012 (7:54 PM). Edited October 25th, 2012 by Rodriguezjames55.
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          I agree if we go with catholic beliefs cuz i an rape is a forced act involving gentiles its been a law in most societies since 300 bc
          Contraceptives is a no no
          Being gay is not a sin (not relevant like bring that up cuz people say we are homophobic bigots)
          And catholic and orthodoxy is the oldest if Christianity and out of the 2 billion Christians 1.1 or 1.2 are catholic
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            #196    
          Old October 26th, 2012 (12:56 AM).
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            Before I get into quotes and replies, I think it'd be nice for everyone to know that Obama has spoken out in favor of marriage equality, which only makes me lean all that further away from Romney.

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Mr. X View Post
            So... Does this mean that God doesn't exist? Religion is, basically, a consensus of people that beleive God exists so...

            Some do, some don't. It varies state by state and denomination by denomination.

            Rape is Rape. I don't see why people try to make it seem less of a crime by saying 'Its a custom.' If anything, rape being apart of your customs mean you have some pretty ****** customs, and you need to change them.
            I think this comic by xkcd covers the concerns of religion + numbers. If nothing else, it's a good laugh.

            As for rape, the World English Dictionary defines it as so: "the offense of forcing a person, especially a woman, to submit to sexual intercourse against that person's will". This definition does not excuse marital status; and frankly, I believe any culture that does is too old-fashioned for the modern world by treating women as property.

            If this is about customs, it should probably be noted that the Bible (specifically Deuteronomy) decreed a man need only pay fifty pieces of silver to the father of his victim, and they were married. If the rape victim was already married or engaged, they [both rapist and victim] would get stoned to death.

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Rodriguezjames55 View Post
            I agree if we go with catholic beliefs cuz i an rape is a forced act involving gentiles its been a law in most societies since 300 bc
            Contraceptives is a no no
            Being gay is not a sin (not relevant like bring that up cuz people say we are homophobic bigots)
            And catholic and orthodoxy is the oldest if Christianity and out of the 2 billion Christians 1.1 or 1.2 are catholic
            Um... What?
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              #197    
            Old October 26th, 2012 (5:36 AM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by TornZero View Post
            Before I get into quotes and replies, I think it'd be nice for everyone to know that Obama has spoken out in favor of marriage equality, which only makes me lean all that further away from Romney.
            I don't see that as a particularly great reason. It isn't something neither of them would be able to change. Out of their control. Not their jurisdiction. It is a state thing.
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              #198    
            Old October 26th, 2012 (7:02 AM).
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            Quote:
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            I don't see that as a particularly great reason. It isn't something neither of them would be able to change. Out of their control. Not their jurisdiction. It is a state thing.
            It would actually be very easy to change, via an Executive Order. Which only Presidents have the authority to issue.
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              #199    
            Old October 26th, 2012 (8:10 AM).
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            It would actually be very easy to change, via an Executive Order. Which only Presidents have the authority to issue.
            Changing the definition of marriage would require a constitutional amendment. If all it takes is an Executive Order, then why hasn't Obama issued one? We all know that he's a two-faced hypocrite, but come on!
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              #200    
            Old October 26th, 2012 (9:27 AM).
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            Quote:
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            Changing the definition of marriage would require a constitutional amendment. If all it takes is an Executive Order, then why hasn't Obama issued one? We all know that he's a two-faced hypocrite, but come on!
            You're saying DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) didn't try to change the definition of marriage? 'Cuz if you're arguing that "man + woman = marriage, but man + man =/= marriage" I disagree with your prescriptivist notion of marriage.

            At the federal level Obama has already told his people not to defend DOMA which does have an impact on, for instance, married same-sex couples where one is a citizen of the US and one is not. And he's weighed in on the measures (or whatever they're called) in Washington and Maine.

            Granted, he could be doing a lot more, but at least he's pushing in the right direction, which his political opponents are not doing.
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