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Pokemon Stratos (New Hack with 15 Regions)

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PokeQuality

PokeQuality
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If he had ROMhacking knowledge, he wouldn't make 15 regions, would he?

You guys are really trying your hardest to ignore that I've said it's a GOAL, the execution of which will adapt to what is possible. I'm really not understanding why so many people are opting to be pompous and rude about this.
 

Dyskinesia

Second-rate hack
82
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  • Age 25
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  • Seen May 12, 2019

Okay, this has been bothering me a lot so I just want to make it absolutely clear what my issues with this are.

The first and most glaring issue with this project is expecting it to work as a ROM hack. Pokémon Black 2's ROM size is 256Mb, and the NDS ROM limit is 512Mb. (Someone correct me if my exact numbers are wrong here). Expecting all the data for 15 entire regions to fit within those parameters is incredibly questionable, and speaks to your inexperience as a ROM hacker and programmer. How do you expect to be able to work around these limitations? You briefly mentioned that a possible solution would be to split the game up between several different ROM hacks. That brings up another issue, though.

Assuming that the RAM works similarly to the GBA, you're similarly limited in that manor. You can't have an infinitely big save data file. Keeping this in mind, how would you plan to keep all of the flags and variables that track progress contained within a limited area like that, with 15 regions worth of information? Even if you're splitting up the game between different ROMs, how do you expect to make the progress transferable? It's possible to make a tool that transfers relevant Pokémon data, but do you even know how to go about doing something like that? There's just too much going on with 15 regions that make it impractical as one continuous adventure.

Another issue I have with the concept of having so many regions in one hack is making sure that gameplay remains interesting throughout the course of the game. Traditional Pokémon titles already become relatively stale to continue playing around level 50 when most Pokémon stop evolving and learning new moves. What could you do to make the game more interesting, enough so to make a 15-region game playable? Increasing the level cap, while certainly a possibility, doesn't solve this. There's simply not much more you can do within the Pokémon battling system to keep progress interesting for much longer. I think it's certainly doable to get closer to level 100, but after 2.5 regions in Glazed my whole team was close to level 100, high 90s at least. 13 more regions after that? You'd need a major overhaul. You could certainly space out the currently available moves to make progression constant throughout 250 or so levels, but that would make everything much more tedious and progress much less fast-paced and rewarding. Another issue with increasing level cap like that would be that it'd be incredibly tedious to bring a weak Pokémon up to the standards of your team with a system like this around the late-game. Tedious gameplay is not good for making a fun game.

Yet another issue I have with the concept of having 15 regions in a single Pokémon game is that it's a super unoriginal concept. You've listed places that you plan on being available to explore, and none of them are brand-new places. Most hardcore Pokémon players (The vast majority of people playing ROM hacks), are already going to be fairly familiar with most of these regions. Even if they're not familiar with them through traditional games, there have certainly been popular ROM hacks to also visit these locations. At best they'll be shallow rehashes of the same things we've seen in other games as well, just with less ability to have a sense of progress due to the level scaling issues.

Time investment is also a huge issue I have with this game concept. There's two ends of this though: The player's end, and the developer's end. If you manage to put out a hack that's frankly not a super new idea, that's generally gonna be fine. A lot of people will still play it just because they're looking for new stuff to play. But when you expand that to get to 15 regions of gameplay, that's a LOT of time to be putting in as a player. Especially without 802 Pokémon to fill it up, the gameplay is going to be boring, and most players probably won't sit through that much gameplay. The other side of the time investment issue is on your end, as the developer. The best ROM hacks from the most talented hackers usually take 1.5-2 years just to get one top-quality region completed and interesting. By that rate, you're looking at a 2030 release date minimum to complete 15 regions of similar quality. In a 20-year development window, you're not gonna skate by super easy. There will definitely be a lot of setbacks and things that make a project as big as this hard.

That's a problem, though, because you've clearly shown that you're unable to deal with even the most minor of setbacks for projects that you work on. I'll cite your previous post on Pokécommunity for this, you wrote out this big project that you wanted to start as a community to build an entire Pokémon game from the ground up, with its own world, working from nothing. You were looking for help, ready to be in it for the long haul to get it done. Or, really, you just said you were. Because after all of that, your post got locked because you posted it to the wrong subforum. Sure, a simple mistake, one that everyone could make, but that's not the point. A person who is truly determined enough to follow through with their ideas and complete projects would have immediately reposted it into the proper forum, but from the looks of it you immediately abandoned the idea at the first little hiccup before anything even got started. You're clearly unable to deal with the struggles of game development.

All of these issues come down to your inexperience with ROM hacking. You've already expressed here that you're completely unfamiliar with the tools you're aiming to accomplish all of this with. Why post what you're going to be doing before you even know what is possible? When I was 9 I really wanted to make a Pokémon game that had 20 regions in it. Then I grew up and learned more about programming and ROM hacking and game design, and realized that quantity isn't the mark of a good game. I learned I'd rather have a fun game than a game with 20 regions.

I don't think you understand the scale of the project you're proposing. I already briefly mentioned how long it would realistically take based on what we can see from the development of popular ROM hacks, but there's more to it than that. You really just don't have the experience to make all of these promises. You posted in here that you said you estimated it'd take around 3 years before you have even a hint of an Alpha. Two main issues with this. Firstly, that doesn't make sense, because if you're doing 1 region at a time, you could easily get one of them out by that point. My other issue ist that when I inquired about how you came to that figure, you didn't have a solid answer or reference to any real thing besides just saying something along the lines of "I know how long these things take", even though you clearly don't have the experience to know. It's completely reasonable for everyone in here and all the people talking about this in the Discord to assume that you don't have the work ethic to follow through on this. Not only because you already have a track record of not finishing what you start, but also because it's a frankly inhuman amount of work ethic necessary for a project this big. 20 years of work for a fan game that will never be lucrative is simply not a level of work ethic we've seen as a ROM hacking community, for any game on any system ever. The closest to that we've seen is from projects that have been repeatedly dropped and later picked up by different individuals to reach their end results.

I have a huge issue with your inability to accept criticism, which you've shown in this thread. Just because someone is critical of something you're doing or saying doesn't mean that it's an attack on you, or saying that you're a bad person. It's just people being clear and trying to inform you about the things you're showing you're not informed about. It's not coming from a place of malice. Whining about people coming across as negative doesn't get anything accomplished. Exactly zero games of any genre ever that have gotten remotely popular have come with 100% positivity. If your'e expecting to be the first one that gets through development and release with nobody even hinting at a negative opinion, you're gonna be in for a huge surprise

With all of that in mind, I'd recommend you reevaluate your approach and goals in making your game. Firstly, your goal shouldn't be a content goal like "15 regions of gameplay", but rather a quality goal like "A fun game to play". Secondly, you shouldn't come to specifics about what you want to incorporate into your game before you're adequately familiar with the actual process of ROM hacking. See what's possible first, then work within that to make your game. Finally, learn to accept that not everyone's gonna be 100% positive about everything. Not everything is gonna work out perfectly, every part of ROM hacking can be very tough. That's the world, nothing anyone can do about that. You're not incapable of making a good game, but try to learn as much as you can before you commit yourself to an impossible task.

 
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PokeQuality

PokeQuality
28
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  • Age 29
  • Seen Oct 8, 2018
1st paragraph - I understood this was an issue prior to posting anywhere, and when people brought it up I acknowledged it and said if I need to split it across games (or some other method) I will. I AM inexperienced, I've said that from the beginning. I accept what is impossible and am not saying "well if I try reeaaal hard, anything is possible!". So I accept that this not fitting into one game and creating consistency between others is inevitable, but because of my lack of understanding I'm not going to announce what method it would be until ive done more research.

2nd - No, I wouldn't know how to make a program that does that. Thank you for illustrating the save fIle adding more data on top of the actual data in the rom, I'll remember that.

3rd - My idea as of now is to have your main adventure with gym battles and fighting villainous teams net you experience, but conferences have the World Tournament setup so they default your level to 50 (and you gain no experience?). Gyms have a level cap for you so you can't use your previous overleveled mons in a new region's gym challenge, so the game naturally allows you to have more than 6 pokemon as options for the conference of that region. However, when you enter a stage of the game dealing with the villianous activity of a region, the game alerts you through dialogue and clear warning that you should be using your stronger pokemon to tackle this issue. So the climb to lv100 would be through fighting them in all of these places. Meanwhile, the scattered levels of your mons from various regions won't lessen the variety you have for conferences because it creates an even playing field for all of them. I also am playing with the idea of having rare candies for purchase in some capacity, but that doesn't take precedence over a real pacing.

4th - Good point, particularly Unova will be kinda shallow and even the previous 4 regions would be very familiar even if a different style in 5th gen. This is why in the post I highlighted that I would be adding new locations and changing up the looks of cities, but keeping it fresh and not putting a sense of "ugh ive been here before" is important.

5th - This is also an important note I appreciate. Im pretty sure when writing the dialogue and storyline of this game I'll end up cutting out some parts I just can't seem to make interesting. Particularly, I mentioned Skyridge and Aquapolis as potential locations but I have the least to work with in those regions and not much extensive lore to build on. If I were to reduce regions they wold be the first.

The rest - I understand nobody has been attacking me. Everyone who has been critical of how realistic this is has been basing this directly off of EXPERIENCE as opposed to my lack there of. I have agreed with the sentiment being shared over and over again, and I feel frustrated not because it's criticism, but because it feels like the only response people are trying to get out of me is to stop working on this idea altogether to make something simpler, as opposed to trying to make this one work in some shape or form. I had no quarrel with you when you first started comments about this because the questions were somewhat valid. In fact, I loved the first 5 paragraphs of critique you just posted because it directly points out game design flaws and challenges me to rethink how I'll go about it WITHOUT the added "this will never work, go back to the beginning". I felt that last bit being said by everyone is what started to piss me off - telling me what to do with my project. It didnt bother me until 3 separate people continued to comment it beyond me saying I understood. But it feels like if I say anything short of "the project has been scrapped", you don't feel I've understood what you're saying.

As for that post from 2 years ago - I was not invested in working on that immediately. I posted it to feel out interest, and got no response so I assumed there was no point pursuing it because I sure as hell wasn't doing it alone. Tbh I didnt know it was in the wrong section until you brought it up again. I didn't know how this site worked, and I was not dedicated to that idea. I really, really would appreciate you leave that post alone because you're acting like it proves something (I get why you're under that impression) but I'm telling you it's largely irrelevant.

Statements like "you're clearly unable to deal with the struggles of game development" is why I'm annoyed, and I'd appreciate you not construing that to sound like I don't want to hear bad things. My issue is not the criticism, it is the wording.
 
90
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Man, seeing Dyskinesia's post, it makes it seem less possible to do it considering I (and Pokequallity) most certainly lack romhacking knowledge. I'm not put down, I'm just now understanding why people think there's flaws in this concept.
 

HeavyMecha

Weighed Down By Technology
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  • Age 31
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  • Seen Jan 21, 2018
1) This isn't possible, I mean honestly, anything past like... 3 is probably impossible. You have to account for so much crap, it's a bad idea.

2) Did I mention how impossible this is? Like, if you made this with RPG maker then yeah, 100% possible. But with hacking, there just isn't enough space and flags available.

3) Spheal is best Pokemon. Your argument is invalid.
 
90
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7
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1. Yep I agree is more possible on RPGMaker than Rom hacking.
2. Yep, sepheal (sorry for mistake) is one of my favs!
3. I don't know how to reply to number 1
 
794
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10
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Do you have any experience with hacking DS games? Can you modify a map, place an NPC, add an item, create a new move? It feels to me like you try to bite off more than you can chew.

DS hacking is on its own one level of difficulty above GBA.
I honestly think you should start with something easier to get a grasp on what romhacking is and how hard and unrealistic your goal is.
 

PokeQuality

PokeQuality
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Do you have any experience with hacking DS games? Can you modify a map, place an NPC, add an item, create a new move? It feels to me like you try to bite off more than you can chew.

DS hacking is on its own one level of difficulty above GBA.
I honestly think you should start with something easier to get a grasp on what romhacking is and how hard and unrealistic your goal is.

Map editing, yes to a small degree. Place an NPC and add an item, yes. I have not made a new move before.

You're not wrong.
 
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If you really want to make a good hack, follow my advices
1) Try not to make a big game but a better game. 15 regions don't mean a good game. Even if you have World tournament setup, I will say that game will be still boring. So, I say if you want to make multiple regions anyway, make 2 at highest
2) Since you are a new ROM hacker, try to make a GBA rom hack instead of DS. DS hacking is A WAY LOT HARDER than you can imagine. I know you have got some tutorials but what if you get some trouble following the tutorials. I don't think I have to mention that there aren't
many Professional DS hackers that you can ask for help.
3) Make a good story. Your story from the thread actually pretty much.................................................sucks! (sorry for being rude)
4) Try to learn everything first. I repeat EVERYTHING.
 

manta

★★★★★
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You fool. You absolute fool. I can't believe you'd go for such a tiny, miniscule goal. What are you, 14? 15? Thinking this'll be a good start to your ROM hacking career? I can't... I can't fathom why you would do this. FIFTEEN REGIONS? I bet you're thinking smugly to yourself, "this is just the right size for a game! I can definitely get a good start!", like every child in this community. Damn... just to stomach this, I need to write out five scripts and seven ASM routines. Bet those 15 regions are reeeeeal original aren't they? Kanto? Johto? Pleeeease. If you were actually original, those 15 regions would be your custom creations, complete with completely new tiles and models.

Apply yourself. 15 regions is absolutely pathetic, even for a newbie. If you're going to do it, you need to think bigger. 30 regions... no, 50. Why bother if it's just going to be a small scale release, that if it were a movie, would go straight to DVD? And all Pokémon from Gens 1-5? Wow, you really are new. I'm expecting at LEAST 200 new Pokémon (Fakemon for you brainlets) for EACH region. And these regions have to be huge. I'm talking Breath of the Wild huge. Actually, scrap that, have each region be procedurally generated like in Minecraft. Endless worlds... now that would really be an experience, would it?

Talking about endless possibilities, why not go further? Custom moves... custom abilities, all generated randomly. That's right, I'm talking ****ing Borderlands, kid. Endless possibilities mean endless replay value. Your game will be played to death, literally. Actually, how about it? Let's include custom code that sends subliminal messaging to the brain, telling it to fire up the dopamine receptors. Get your players hooked... so hooked, they won't ever stop playing. But to stop there, oh no. That would be a waste of potential. With that power, you'll have the world in your grasp. You could order millions of people to fight back against their country and no-one would realise. You can be the mastermind in the plan to destroy the world. Your game won't just be a revolution in the world of gaming, it will be a social and political revolution. Got any politicians you want to get rid of? Just send them a copy of Pokémon Stratos and watch them livestream their suicide on national television. Good idea, right?

Of course, with all that power, you're gonna need something hunky to run it on. I'm sure you can create a console that has terabytes of RAM. Use all the spare RAM to take over satellites in space and we can finally see the ayyliens that NASA have been hiding from us. Even more, we can use that RAM to hack the nuclear codes. Send nukes across the entire world, but it's okay, you won't die. The console can use its built in forcefield (made with l33t ASM technology) to stop all harm from coming to you. All misfortune will be deflected away. A bit like that one Stand in JoJo. You ever read JoJo, PokeQuality? If you have, you'll know what I'm talking about. Let's make Stands real. If you know a bit of C++, it's easy. Then, once we've destroyed the entire world, found ayyliens, and made punchghosts, we can start conquering the entire galaxy. Let's go find Alf. Where is he after all these years? Who knows, probably dead.

My point is, you're thinking too small. Too in-the-box. If you really want to make a game that can hold up, you'll need to broaden your horizons and think long-term.
 
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  • Age 30
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:P

Here's how you can make 15 regions.

Make each map its own region (so Pallet Town map is converted into all of Kanto, or the like). Make it really, reaaaaaally tiny compared to normal regions but large for normal map, and make houses or towns 1 tile big. It'll be like a giant version of the Town Map.

The plotline is that your character is a giant. His/her name is Clifford, and they have a Growlithe for a starter. Their goal is to conquer the entire world, or maybe just to become Pokemon Master of all teh regions. Possibly by stomping on it. Their enemy is Team Tiny, who hates all giants.

No, srsly, I would play that...

or maybe I should make it myself... lol. Just more seriously, you are not a giant, there are just symbolic sized houses.
 
200
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It's an NDS hack...it isn't that much easy to make 15 regions as you think

There's no reason they can't hack GBA instead.

Besides, what if you make them all 1 TILE IN SIZE???

Then you could have 1000 regions!

I should totally do that in my next hack. The gameplay will be that the giant sits on it, and crushes each region.

No, wait.

EACH CONTINENT.

Much better.
 
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There's no reason they can't hack GBA instead.

Besides, what if you make them all 1 TILE IN SIZE???

Then you could have 1000 regions!

I should totally do that in my next hack. The gameplay will be that the giant sits on it, and crushes each region.

No, wait.

EACH CONTINENT.



Much better.

make them 1 tile in size the game would suck
 
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