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  #1126    
Old October 15th, 2011 (4:09 PM).
Ineffable~'s Avatar
Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachy View Post
Well don't leave the Bis out of the fun...there are myths about us too! x3

http://gaylife.about.com/od/bisexual/a/biman.htm
There are like ten times more about trans people. xD
http://www.bilerico.com/2011/07/you_are_not_transsexual.php
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#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)



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  #1127    
Old October 15th, 2011 (7:31 PM).
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Esper Esper is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post

There are like ten times more about trans people. xD
http://www.bilerico.com/2011/07/you_are_not_transsexual.php
Ugh. That list. I hate both that there isn't accurate enough language to explain so many concepts to people simply and make things easy for them to understand what isn't this and what is that, but at the same time I wish it wasn't necessary to explain anything at all.
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  #1128    
Old October 16th, 2011 (7:52 AM).
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Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
Ugh. That list. I hate both that there isn't accurate enough language to explain so many concepts to people simply and make things easy for them to understand what isn't this and what is that, but at the same time I wish it wasn't necessary to explain anything at all.
Yeah, I feel exactly the same way since some people are just soooo annoying about it.
It certainly doesn't help that there's actually disagreement within the community, but I guess you kind of see that in any community. >.>
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#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


  #1129    
Old October 16th, 2011 (11:51 AM).
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FreakyLocz14 FreakyLocz14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post

Yeah, I feel exactly the same way since some people are just soooo annoying about it.
It certainly doesn't help that there's actually disagreement within the community, but I guess you kind of see that in any community. >.>
You'd have to ask yourself if LGBT is actually a cohesive community to begin with, or is the sense of community something people imagine to give themselves a sense of belonging?
  #1130    
Old October 16th, 2011 (12:13 PM).
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Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
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Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
You'd have to ask yourself if LGBT is actually a cohesive community to begin with, or is the sense of community something people imagine to give themselves a sense of belonging?
I was really talking about the trans community in particular, but yes I think there is community here, both in T and LGBT in general. We may not all know each other but the reason we're together is because we are many people working as one to further ourselves in the world, i.e. make ourselves accepted by "the common folk".

I mean, do we not all want to have equal rights and for people to regard us and treat us like the human beings we are? That's true whether you're gay, trans, intersex or whatever.

tl;dr: I do think we are a community because most of us work together in some way.
__________________

#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


  #1131    
Old October 16th, 2011 (12:23 PM). Edited October 16th, 2011 by -Jared-.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post

I was really talking about the trans community in particular, but yes I think there is community here, both in T and LGBT in general. We may not all know each other but the reason we're together is because we are many people working as one to further ourselves in the world, i.e. make ourselves accepted by "the common folk".

I mean, do we not all want to have equal rights and for people to regard us and treat us like the human beings we are? That's true whether you're gay, trans, intersex or whatever.

tl;dr: I do think we are a community because most of us work together in some way.
I agree wholeheartedly with the above, and would like to add that one of the most important parts of a community is that members have that "sense of community." And the fact that people believe there is an LGBT community is proof that the community exists. We want to have people we can talk to and rely on, so we gather, whether online or in real life, and that is what makes the community.
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  #1132    
Old October 16th, 2011 (12:31 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post

I was really talking about the trans community in particular, but yes I think there is community here, both in T and LGBT in general. We may not all know each other but the reason we're together is because we are many people working as one to further ourselves in the world, i.e. make ourselves accepted by "the common folk".

I mean, do we not all want to have equal rights and for people to regard us and treat us like the human beings we are? That's true whether you're gay, trans, intersex or whatever.

tl;dr: I do think we are a community because most of us work together in some way.
I see some evidence to the contrary regularly. Just one example that you brought up is the nonacceptance of transsexuals by homosexuals and bisexuals. There is also an internal fight between "masculine" and feminine" and whether one side should be looked down upon with disdain for furthering negative stereotypes.
  #1133    
Old October 16th, 2011 (4:28 PM).
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    Well I'm genderfluid, and so this can mean I can be more masculine one moment and more feminine the next...and I can remember how violently some people right here on PC reacted when I decided to just switch to female and stick with that a while. :<

    So I'm not saying you're wrong Freaky, but there's something you're missing too....and that's probably important. The internal battle doesn't have anything to do with it. It's how others view it.
      #1134    
    Old October 16th, 2011 (4:50 PM).
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      Is this group still taking in people?
      If so then I would like to join, me not seeing a sign-up form.
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        #1135    
      Old October 16th, 2011 (5:16 PM).
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      We're always accepting new people, Physco. :] There's no real sign-up form to speak of, you kinda just... start posting here~

      Aaaand I do believe there is a community to speak of when it comes to us LGBT. We all have similar wants for the society we live in, similar histories, and we can certainly all relate. There's going to be discrepancy in any community. There were discrepancies in the civil rights movement if you read up on your history; a lot of it. Doesn't mean there wasn't a profound community that formed said movement. I like to think that because there are these conflict of opinions in the LGBT community that we're even more a community. Just means we're that much more passionate about our identities.

      If that's confusing, I apologize... I've had little sleep. :D
        #1136    
      Old October 16th, 2011 (9:52 PM). Edited October 16th, 2011 by Kura.
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        I kinda have a random hypothetical question for you guys..

        What if you had like.. a really close friend. Like a BEST friend, that you told all your secrets to. This friend had known you for years and you had that sort of mutual love for each other. Like a brother/ sister.. someone you can rely on and that you could really trust.
        What if you were being honest and came out to them.. and then they told you that they wanted to be honest and had a secret hatred for LGBT and the respective community? And they were unwilling to waiver that feeling- let's say they told you "My feelings on this are as strong as your feelings towards your sexuality."

        What would you do?


        Quote:
        Well I'm genderfluid, and so this can mean I can be more masculine one moment and more feminine the next...and I can remember how violently some people right here on PC reacted when I decided to just switch to female and stick with that a while. :<
        Actually you claimed that a female entity/ person lived inside of you and that we (the rest of the community) weren't allowed to address you by your regular name (the name on your birth certificate) nor your username because "she was coming out and taking over." You would refuse to explain the reason for this and ridicule others for not understanding why they couldn't call you by the name they had used for years. It wasn't mostly violent, but many people felt you were disregarding and making fun of people with an actual identity crisis or split personalities- they felt you were mocking them. That's why many got frustrated at you, and yes some may have attacked you.. but it wasn't just for "genderbending." I don't appreciate that you are omitting the details to make the community look bad when you were just as guilty as some of them were. As you can see by this thread, there are many members here that are wholly supportive of changing gender roles- especially if it isn't just for an act like some genderbending members around here.
        I know for a fact I personally tried very hard to understand you- and I did raise many questions for you that were probably uncomfortable through PM- but I wasn't from your world and those were questions I indeed had and were very valid, in my opinion. However, you just blocked me.
        I don't mean to have called you out, but I felt I needed to clarify my perspective of the situation.
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          #1137    
        Old October 16th, 2011 (9:58 PM).
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        Oh god.

        UUUH.. it's hard for me to say because my best friend was totally on board with whatever part of the LGBT group I was in. xD; It's hard for me to try to think otherwise, because we've said that likely nothing will break our friendship. This is gonna take some brain powah.

        Hypothetically, if we couldn't work through it, then something that big.. I'd think that we'd both want it to work out. Though, something like that would be too hard to ignore, so our friendship would likely break I suppose? I guess so.. I mean, I can't think of any other way if neither of us could change how we felt. Granted, plenty of LGBT haters change their views a bit when someone close comes out to them, but you said "What if they unwilling to waver", sooooo yeah.. can't see that friendship lasting. It'd suck, but there's a point where if they can't accept who are you, then life moves on.
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          #1138    
        Old October 16th, 2011 (10:01 PM).
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        FreakyLocz14 FreakyLocz14 is offline
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Kura View Post
        I kinda have a random hypothetical question for you guys..

        What if you had like.. a really close friend. Like a BEST friend, that you told all your secrets to. This friend had known you for years and you had that sort of mutual love for each other. Like a brother/ sister.. someone you can rely on and that you could really trust.
        What if you were being honest and came out to them.. and then they told you that they wanted to be honest and had a secret hatred for LGBT and the respective community? And they were unwilling to waiver that feeling- let's say they told you "My feelings on this are as strong as your feelings towards your sexuality."

        What would you do?
        I would still be friends with them as long they continued to treat me with respect (if I was bi/les). Differences of opinion are no reason to unfriend a person. You have to deal with people with differing viewpoints all the time in life. We would just have to agree to disagree.
          #1139    
        Old October 16th, 2011 (10:43 PM).
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        TornZero TornZero is offline
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Kura View Post
          I kinda have a random hypothetical question for you guys..

          What if you had like.. a really close friend. Like a BEST friend, that you told all your secrets to. This friend had known you for years and you had that sort of mutual love for each other. Like a brother/ sister.. someone you can rely on and that you could really trust.
          What if you were being honest and came out to them.. and then they told you that they wanted to be honest and had a secret hatred for LGBT and the respective community? And they were unwilling to waiver that feeling- let's say they told you "My feelings on this are as strong as your feelings towards your sexuality."

          What would you do?
          I don't think the matter would come up too much except with relationships (though relationship privacy is something I and my friend should respect), so we wouldn't really have to bother with being conscious about their hatred. However, if they expressed their dislike of the LGBT community more often (if they did at all before) after the coming out, then they have a serious problem. (They likely would start referencing me in their talks of immorality or something.) I would just plain cut out contact with them until they can get over it enough to respect me like they used to.
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            #1140    
          Old October 16th, 2011 (11:18 PM). Edited October 16th, 2011 by Shining Raichu.
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          Shining Raichu Shining Raichu is offline
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          Welcome to our newest member, Physco!!

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Kura
          I kinda have a random hypothetical question for you guys..

          What if you had like.. a really close friend. Like a BEST friend, that you told all your secrets to. This friend had known you for years and you had that sort of mutual love for each other. Like a brother/ sister.. someone you can rely on and that you could really trust.
          What if you were being honest and came out to them.. and then they told you that they wanted to be honest and had a secret hatred for LGBT and the respective community? And they were unwilling to waiver that feeling- let's say they told you "My feelings on this are as strong as your feelings towards your sexuality."

          What would you do?
          I would end the friendship. It would be hard, absolutely, but the friendship would be forever changed by the revelation even if the friend managed not to let your sexuality get in the way of their feelings for you as a person. A person is not truly a friend if they don't accept every part of you, and if they are unwilling then there are people out there who will. Who needs a bigot? Nobody, they have no place in society.



          Also,



          For the gay guys in the group, I have some exciting (yet shallow) news! Zachary Quinto, aka Sylar from Heroes and Spock from the new Star Trek movies, has revealed that he is a gay man! You can read more about it here and immediately begin your fantasies!

          /fanboy
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            #1141    
          Old October 17th, 2011 (6:30 AM).
          -Jared-'s Avatar
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          On the topic at hand, I kinda have a family member who I worry will be like this upon me coming out. She is my aunt, and she is always praising e for being such a good kid, so caring, blah blah blah, that I really fear what she will think when I come out, considering she is a very fundamentalist Christian. :| SO, yeah, I kinda understand how it would feel to be in that situation. And if it were a best friend instead of a family member, I would ask them, "Hey, are you willing to still be friends and work this out?" If he/she said yes, then I would remain friends. If they said no, they couldn't accept it at all, I would probably just leave them alone so they wouldn't have to deal with me. :<



          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post

          Also,



          For the gay guys in the group, I have some exciting (yet shallow) news! Zachary Quinto, aka Sylar from Heroes and Spock from the new Star Trek movies, has revealed that he is a gay man! You can read more about it here and immediately begin your fantasies!

          /fanboy
          :0 Ummm, yeah. That is.....niiiice. xD And on a more serious note, I am glad he decided that he wanted to do this in response to Jamie Rodemeyer's death. It makes it more like a tribute to him, I guess. ^__^
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            #1142    
          Old October 17th, 2011 (6:39 AM).
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          Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Kura View Post
          I kinda have a random hypothetical question for you guys..

          What if you had like.. a really close friend. Like a BEST friend, that you told all your secrets to. This friend had known you for years and you had that sort of mutual love for each other. Like a brother/ sister.. someone you can rely on and that you could really trust.
          What if you were being honest and came out to them.. and then they told you that they wanted to be honest and had a secret hatred for LGBT and the respective community? And they were unwilling to waiver that feeling- let's say they told you "My feelings on this are as strong as your feelings towards your sexuality."

          What would you do?
          -Takes a piece of paper and tears it into two pieces-
          That's what I would do. If someone doesn't accept every part of me, they don't really love me. So I don't tolerate people like that. :/

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Pikapal642 View Post
          On the topic at hand, I kinda have a family member who I worry will be like this upon me coming out. She is my aunt, and she is always praising e for being such a good kid, so caring, blah blah blah, that I really fear what she will think when I come out, considering she is a very fundamentalist Christian. :|
          Same, only mine is my grandmother, and she's less religious than she is old and racist.

          Except I really wouldn't have a problem with turning my back on her in a moment if she were intolerant like that. Yay for no conscience! :D


          Oh, and that's good about Zachary Quinto coming out. :3
          __________________

          #077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
          Fire ~ Field eggs
          3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

          Its hooves are 10 times harder
          than diamonds. It can trample
          anything completely flat in moments.

          Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
          Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
          Locations: Pokémon Mansion

          Cry

          Other names:

          jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
          de: Ponita
          fr: Ponyta
          cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


            #1143    
          Old October 17th, 2011 (7:40 AM).
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          Esper Esper is offline
           
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Kura View Post
          What if you had like.. a really close friend. Like a BEST friend, that you told all your secrets to. This friend had known you for years and you had that sort of mutual love for each other. Like a brother/ sister.. someone you can rely on and that you could really trust.
          What if you were being honest and came out to them.. and then they told you that they wanted to be honest and had a secret hatred for LGBT and the respective community? And they were unwilling to waiver that feeling- let's say they told you "My feelings on this are as strong as your feelings towards your sexuality."

          What would you do?
          I really don't know. I'd likely be angry at them and stop talking to them for a while and hope that they could start to change their views after realizing that their best friend was part of the LGBT community. I know I couldn't be friends with someone with that kind of hatred.

          And speaking of the community, I personally don't feel much of a sense of one. All I've ever gotten from random queer people is a kind of "Oh, you are? Okay." Acceptance, of course, but nothing more. I'm still a stranger to them like they're strangers to me. I have my friends who are gay and there's a support group where I sort of know some of the people, but outside that there's no "community" I see except the kind of commercialized community you get at pride events and the like.
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            #1144    
          Old October 17th, 2011 (1:23 PM). Edited October 17th, 2011 by Kura.
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
            I would end the friendship. It would be hard, absolutely, but the friendship would be forever changed by the revelation even if the friend managed not to let your sexuality get in the way of their feelings for you as a person. Who needs a bigot? Nobody, they have no place in society.
            Who says they're a "bigot?" If they never verbally express their views nor show any physical hatred or actions of discrimination towards the Gay Community then it's just simply a strong belief. I said that the hypothetical friend had a SECRET hate for LGBT, but that doesn't mean they would hate you as a person, or your choice to come out. What if all they hated was the over-sexualization of it all because of personal beliefs? For example, the whole "HEY MAN-NIPPLE BANNER! A hot celeb is available!" that you did?
            Would you be willing to cut that out when you're around them, or do you still hold true the "I am myself and no one's going to restrict me. They should love all of me" view and drop them?



            I dunno.. I just feel that there's too much hate going on. Just because they're not in the whole LGBT thing doesn't mean that LGBT's should hate them and call them names for not supporting them. Especially if those said people never did anything to harm the LGBT community- and it's just personal views that wouldn't get voiced.

            Those are my thoughts, you're free to disagree.
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              #1145    
            Old October 17th, 2011 (2:12 PM).
            Akarui Akarui is offline
             
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post


            Also,



            For the gay guys in the group, I have some exciting (yet shallow) news! Zachary Quinto, aka Sylar from Heroes and Spock from the new Star Trek movies, has revealed that he is a gay man! You can read more about it here and immediately begin your fantasies!

            /fanboy
            Honestly, it seems like he's been gay all this time. I've never gotten a straight vibe from him. Nice to know though. I used to obsess over Zachary when he was on Heroes. xD
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              #1146    
            Old October 17th, 2011 (3:43 PM).
            Melody Melody is offline
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              It would be painful for me, but if they expressed a hatred that strong for the LGBT community as a whole...there isn't a whole lot I could do. Just an attitude like that colors their very choices...so an admission like that would be a dealbreaker for me. It wouldn't matter that they never openly express such a hatred, it would always be a rift between the two of us because we know how the other feels, and I don't think I could tolerate that. I'd end it quick and cleanly, wish him/her a great life and move on.

              I don't have any tolerance for the intolerant, and that is probably one of the few things that can stir dislike for a person no matter how strongly I love them. I'm fortunately a live and let live person, and in that case, that's probably the rare instance that I'll actually walk away.
                #1147    
              Old October 17th, 2011 (3:58 PM).
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              When I came out to my parents ( I won't get very specific, too painful etc), they were extremely hateful of homosexuals and still are, so it completely tore apart our already strained relationship. Since then, I've only come out to one person in the real world in fear of getting that same reaction. So if they said they were not okay with me being gay, then I'd end that friendship. No point continuing something that will undoubtedly end sooner rather than later because of who I am.
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                #1148    
              Old October 17th, 2011 (4:51 PM).
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              FreakyLocz14 FreakyLocz14 is offline
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              Just because someone hold a different opinion that you, that doesn't make them a bigot. There is a difference between not agreeing with issues such as same-sex marriage and hating LGBT people outright.
                #1149    
              Old October 17th, 2011 (5:01 PM). Edited October 17th, 2011 by -ty-.
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                Would it make me a bigot if I was against black people being able to marry, and I was an avid supporter of taking away black rights (Reguardless of how I treated black people or whether or not there was hatred)?

                I would say yes. Those are "opinions" that seek to usurp rights from others based of skin color, race, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, even though it may not be particularly "hateful".

                Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

                It is a prejudice to hold one group to a different standard than another.
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                  #1150    
                Old October 17th, 2011 (5:17 PM).
                FreakyLocz14's Avatar
                FreakyLocz14 FreakyLocz14 is offline
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by -ty- View Post
                Would it make me a bigot if I was against black people being able to marry, and I was an avid supporter of taking away black rights (Reguardless of how I treated black people)?

                I would say yes. Those are "opinions" that seek to usurp rights from others based of skin color, race, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, even though it may not be particularly "hateful".

                Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
                Actually, it wouldn't. Well, technically we are also bigoted against "traditional marriage". The actual meaning of the word bigot is being set in your ways and devoted to your opinions with underlying hateful causes of those beliefs. Believing that marriage should be between people of the same race does not make you a bigot in its own right, but I'd imagine that most people who hold those views have bigoted intentions.

                I always avoid using the term "bigot" anyway. It's rather close-minded to attack someone just because they hold a different opinion than you, no matter how close-minded that opinion may be. If you are the open-minded one, don't stoop down to their level with intolerant attacks.

                A person's opinions never make them a bigot by themselves no matter how whacked out they may be. The underlying motivations of those opinions must always be considered. If not, it's just simply using demagoguery to attack someone with a different point of view, similar to how people who oppose affirmative action are labeled as racists or people who oppose the war in Iraq are accused of hating American and wanting the terrorist to win, or how people who are pro-life are labeled as sexists, etc.
                 

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