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  #1    
Old 4 Weeks Ago (9:01 AM).
SH60 SH60 is offline
     
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    So are there any Characters and Pokemon you guys liked at first but now hate or dislike?
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    Old 4 Weeks Ago (11:32 AM).
    Alexander18 Alexander18 is offline
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      Meowth. At first he was funny with Team Rocket. But now he has gotten stale and should have left after Johto with Jessie and James. My opinion though.
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        #3    
      Old 4 Weeks Ago (1:00 PM).
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        Ash, starting with BW.
        Misty
        Team Rocket
        May
        I don't hate Serena but I'm disappointed in how she was written.
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          #4    
        Old 4 Weeks Ago (1:06 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
        Meowth. At first he was funny with Team Rocket. But now he has gotten stale and should have left after Johto with Jessie and James. My opinion though.
        Can't help but agreeing. The TR trio are so boring these days... Can't really believe they're still a thing. They should indeed have been gone after Johto imo.
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        Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:18 PM).
        weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
           
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          Hmm, that's a tough topic to answer, mostly because my views of the characters haven't really changed all that much. I still am intensely loyal to Misty (and believe me, it would need to take a LOT for me to start having even slightly negative feelings to her, much less hating her), I pretty much hated May and Dawn largely from the start, Iris I thought was far closer to a worthy successor to Misty than May and Dawn ever were, and Serena... well, she's okay I guess, though I don't really like the canon hiccup she brought about (and personally, I thought she did even LESS than May and Dawn). Tracey I was largely aloof to, Max I pretty much tolerated (ESPECIALLY compared to his sister), and Cilan, well, he's Cilan I guess, and Bonnie and Clemont I guess had some good traits to them, even if the whole bride thing of hers was a bit annoying. And the SM characters from what I gather are fine altogether. Heck, even Brock I'm regaining some long lost respect for after his brief return this saga.

          If I really had to choose, though, it would probably be Brock, Team Rocket or Ash.

          Ash, it's not so much I hate him or even dislike him as much as I think he was extremely poorly utilized to such an extent that they should just put him out of his misery and actually have him win a game league for once, not even caring if it ends the anime. Doesn't help that he pretty much is rendered incapable of keeping any character development with each saga.

          For Team Rocket, well, technically, I hated them from the start, but it was closer to "love to hate" due to the fact that, since they're supposed to be evil, I'm supposed to hate them, never root for the bad guys or even like them. Now, my hatred is not even due to "love to hate" as it is because right now, they've been so mishandled that they're basically bad jokes of their original selves, and are basically more of a nuisance than genuinely threatening, and even in the one instance where they are depicted as genuinely threatening, they really oversold it to be ridiculous (I would have been willing to settle with them even beating Ash's rookie Pokémon at that time, especially as a bit of payback for their loss against Caterpie. Just manhandling Pikachu was overkill). Honestly, even Gaston came across as a threat by comparison to them, and I consider him among Disney's most poorly written villains largely BECAUSE of his reprise and being too open about his villainy in a very stupid manner.

          And lastly, Brock (though he's only a sort-of example, as again, SM if anything redeemed him): I thought he was good during Kanto, since he had some truly redeemable and sympathetic qualities that made him far more well-rounded, like him actually having intense rage against Damian for his callous treatment of what was then his Charmander and spearheading the rescue effort of Charmander, and he was a very good mentor for Ash (Misty too, for that matter), and we even see him trying to raise Togepi as an egg. Unfortunately, starting with Johto, he started devolving into a Glenn Quagmire clone despite his humor not even being remotely appropriate for the target audience. While he did have a bit of that trait in him in Kanto, it was never THAT pronounced or episodic. Not helped was that he barely even bother to focus on his breeder goal despite Generation II actually introducing the breeding mechanic (only time it came up was the Stantler episode and the breeder convention). And AG gives even less focus to that goal (and unfortunately takes his Quagmire tendencies up to 11). Not helping matters is the writers shilling him to the extent that he makes several of the characters needlessly incompetent (like for example, Sick Daze had Misty botching soup despite the fact that, 1., she was implied to have been the one who cooked during the episodes in Viridian Forest, 2., a Cardass thing had Misty shown cooking stew without any indication she was doing a terrible job, and 3., she saved Ash, Tracey, and even Jessie's life from Stun Sporeitis disease by cooking Salveyo Weed. Plus, Brock's return in AG had Ash not knowing how to cook despite already observing Brock cook, not to mention doing very well in the Orange Islands without him, and when Pachirisu was sick, Ash fails to recognize the symptoms despite having personal experience with similar symptoms his Pikachu had twice.). And it also doesn't help that he uncharacteristically abandoned the gym even when it became especially apparent that his family was so grossly incompetent that even Misty's sisters probably were far better gym leaders than they were (like the first time, Lola nearly killed several Rock Pokemon via drowning by turning the whole thing into a swimming pool, not to mention the awful decorations, and the second time, despite Forrest clearly being in charge, she managed to have painters give it even WORSE decorations than before and even alongside Flint nearly got it burglarized while accepting plane tickets from strangers, and Forrest doesn't even ATTEMPT to fight the challengers (Ash and Brock had to), when if Brock was actually the responsible type, he'd realize he'd need to stop journeying and settle down at the gym because it would have been painfully obvious that he's the only one able to run the gym, even if he doesn't care for it.). It wasn't even until he left that he got an actual goal change (ironically, one that definitely would have made him a LOT more useful via field medics). I even feared when he returned that they'd ruin him even further, but then I discovered that, no, he actually only flirted with one girl, once, and he actually managed to be a competent trainer not seen since Kanto.
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            #6    
          Old 2 Weeks Ago (5:54 PM).
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            Definetly ash. He was good when i first started watching indigo league, but i became sick of him becoming the star of ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING. Why dont they give other characters a chance?
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              #7    
            Old 1 Week Ago (3:08 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by neoshai.
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by stars View Post
              Can't help but agreeing. The TR trio are so boring these days... Can't really believe they're still a thing. They should indeed have been gone after Johto imo.
              I don't think they should drop them out tbh.
              I still, after all these years, after all these seasons enjoy seeing them ... however, they're there just to often.
              They really needed to spread it out more and make them appear once in a while instead of every single episode. I personally think that that is what made them so boring, it's because it's to much of the same thing over and over.
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                #8    
              Old 1 Week Ago (9:59 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by BettyNewbie.
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              BettyNewbie BettyNewbie is offline
                 
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                As much as I dislike the way Misty was booted off of the show with little closure, I also don't think Ash, Brock, and the TRio benefited at all from staying past Johto.

                The moment Ash stepped into Hoenn was the moment he stopped being a character with an ongoing storyline and became a generic mascot protagonist who served no purpose besides marketing the Yellow Rat and whatever new Pokémon were deemed the most "marketable." His story became a neverending loop of league losses and hard resets, and his characterization became completely inconsistent and based entirely on whatever the tone of the arc called for. It's a broken record, and it makes the show feel like a joke.

                As for Brock and the TRio, it's plainly obvious that both were kept around past Johto for comic relief purposes, and their characters completely flatlined as a result. One can only go through the same stale routine of drooling over Joy/Jenny/COTD or failing to catch Pikachu every episode. At least, Brock was mercifully let go of after DP, but the TRio haven't been so lucky.

                I've said it a million times, but this show would've really benefited from sticking to the original plan of ending Ash's story in Johto and have subsequent sagas be reboots with new casts. Even the best characters become stale when they stick around for more than 4 or 5 years, and it also makes continuity more difficult to maintain.

                Plus, wouldn't it also make more sense from a game marketing perspective to use characters from the actual games themselves as the stars of the show? The game counterparts of Ash, Brock, and the TRio were nowhere to be found in RSE and DPPt, so why did we still get them in the Hoenn and Sinnoh animes while actual characters from those games like Brendan, Wally, and Lucas were left to rot? How is that advertising the new games?
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                  #9    
                Old 1 Week Ago (6:44 PM).
                SH60 SH60 is offline
                   
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by BettyNewbie View Post
                  As much as I dislike the way Misty was booted off of the show with little closure, I also don't think Ash, Brock, and the TRio benefited at all from staying past Johto.

                  The moment Ash stepped into Hoenn was the moment he stopped being a character with an ongoing storyline and became a generic mascot protagonist who served no purpose besides marketing the Yellow Rat and whatever new Pokémon were deemed the most "marketable." His story became a neverending loop of league losses and hard resets, and his characterization became completely inconsistent and based entirely on whatever the tone of the arc called for. It's a broken record, and it makes the show feel like a joke.

                  As for Brock and the TRio, it's plainly obvious that both were kept around past Johto for comic relief purposes, and their characters completely flatlined as a result. One can only go through the same stale routine of drooling over Joy/Jenny/COTD or failing to catch Pikachu every episode. At least, Brock was mercifully let go of after DP, but the TRio haven't been so lucky.

                  I've said it a million times, but this show would've really benefited from sticking to the original plan of ending Ash's story in Johto and have subsequent sagas be reboots with new casts. Even the best characters become stale when they stick around for more than 4 or 5 years, and it also makes continuity more difficult to maintain.

                  Plus, wouldn't it also make more sense from a game marketing perspective to use characters from the actual games themselves as the stars of the show? The game counterparts of Ash, Brock, and the TRio were nowhere to be found in RSE and DPPt, so why did we still get them in the Hoenn and Sinnoh animes while actual characters from those games like Brendan, Wally, and Lucas were left to rot? How is that advertising the new games?
                  By showing off the new pokemon, gym leaders, towns, and the different things you can do thats not battling.
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                    #10    
                  Old 1 Week Ago (4:18 AM).
                  weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
                     
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by SH60 View Post
                    By showing off the new pokemon, gym leaders, towns, and the different things you can do thats not battling.
                    The latter stuff you can only dedicate one episode for, though, not make it an entire character arc when in the games most of that stuff doesn't even directly lead to the end credits. Otherwise, it's just false advertising.
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                      #11    
                    Old 1 Week Ago (2:06 PM).
                    SH60 SH60 is offline
                       
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                      The latter stuff you can only dedicate one episode for, though, not make it an entire character arc when in the games most of that stuff doesn't even directly lead to the end credits. Otherwise, it's just false advertising.
                      Those are side things you can do if you want.
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                        #12    
                      Old 1 Week Ago (3:14 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by weedle_mchairybug.
                      weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
                         
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                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by SH60 View Post
                        Those are side things you can do if you want.
                        True, but they definitely shouldn't be made into a character's literal character arc and goal. I'm thinking along the lines of May and Dawn's goal regarding Pokémon Contests and/or Serena's Showcases (or, for that matter, Brock's breeder goal). Type Master-goals like Misty's and to a certain extent Iris's goals at least are possible to accomplish in the games by using Pokémon of a specific type to beat the Pokémon League.

                        Here's my idea: If you're going to have the characters actually have a major goal, make sure they are the kinds of goals that directly lead to the end credits in the games.
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                          #13    
                        Old 1 Week Ago (5:56 PM).
                        SH60 SH60 is offline
                           
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                          True, but they definitely shouldn't be made into a character's literal character arc and goal. I'm thinking along the lines of May and Dawn's goal regarding Pokémon Contests and/or Serena's Showcases (or, for that matter, Brock's breeder goal). Type Master-goals like Misty's and to a certain extent Iris's goals at least are possible to accomplish in the games by using Pokémon of a specific type to beat the Pokémon League.

                          Here's my idea: If you're going to have the characters actually have a major goal, make sure they are the kinds of goals that directly lead to the end credits in the games.
                          The main thing you can be in the games is a trainer other things are side things you can do. And because Ash is the trainer someone has to show off the side things.
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                            #14    
                          Old 1 Week Ago (3:59 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by weedle_mchairybug.
                          weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
                             
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                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by SH60 View Post
                            The main thing you can be in the games is a trainer other things are side things you can do. And because Ash is the trainer someone has to show off the side things.
                            Under a marketing standpoint, the side things are the kinds of stuff that are relegated to either one episode only or at most a little arc, NOT a full-fledged goal. I mean, did any of the characters have full-fledged goals relating to the secret bases? That's a side thing. Or hey, how about discovering fossils or collecting stones for evolutionary purposes?

                            In other words, the girl trainers need to actually DO gyms, specifically to make SURE they are actually promoting the games, either that, or make Pokémon Contests/Showcases an actual goal in the games (and by "actual goal", I mean one that directly leads to the end game credits).

                            Either way, BettyNewbie is quite correct regarding her statements about Ash, Brock, and Team Rocket, as I've made similar statements about them myself.
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                              #15    
                            Old 1 Week Ago (3:11 PM).
                            SH60 SH60 is offline
                               
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                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                              Under a marketing standpoint, the side things are the kinds of stuff that are relegated to either one episode only or at most a little arc, NOT a full-fledged goal. I mean, did any of the characters have full-fledged goals relating to the secret bases? That's a side thing. Or hey, how about discovering fossils or collecting stones for evolutionary purposes?

                              In other words, the girl trainers need to actually DO gyms, specifically to make SURE they are actually promoting the games, either that, or make Pokémon Contests/Showcases an actual goal in the games (and by "actual goal", I mean one that directly leads to the end game credits).

                              Either way, BettyNewbie is quite correct regarding her statements about Ash, Brock, and Team Rocket, as I've made similar statements about them myself.
                              The only way you can do that is by changing the whole story for that to work. And there is a chance that the switch pokemon games may to this. And there are girl trainers but it would be boring if the only thing that the pokegirls can do is be trainers.
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                                #16    
                              Old 1 Week Ago (6:18 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by weedle_mchairybug.
                              weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
                                 
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                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by SH60 View Post
                                The only way you can do that is by changing the whole story for that to work. And there is a chance that the switch pokemon games may to this. And there are girl trainers but it would be boring if the only thing that the pokegirls can do is be trainers.
                                The anime's supposed to be an advertisement for the games, right? Well, the best way to actually advertise it is to have all the characters be Gym Battlers/League Battlers just like in the games, and if we are to focus on side elements of the games, do them in either singular episodes or have mini arcs on them that serve as a distraction from the main goal. And as far as changing it up in USUM, if they were going to change it up, it should have been in Gen III. I can ask my aunt and uncle, they actually work in the advertisement industry.

                                And besides, it's not like they can't include the boy trainers, anyways. With the exception of Gold, Silver, and Crystal (and the remakes) and possibly SM, Ash (well, technically Red, but still...) isn't even IN the games, much less acting as the playable character (even in GSC/HGSS/SM, he's an NPC), and using the boy characters would have sufficed just as well regarding advertising, arguably even MORE so.
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                                  #17    
                                Old 6 Days Ago (5:09 AM).
                                SH60 SH60 is offline
                                   
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                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
                                  The anime's supposed to be an advertisement for the games, right? Well, the best way to actually advertise it is to have all the characters be Gym Battlers/League Battlers just like in the games, and if we are to focus on side elements of the games, do them in either singular episodes or have mini arcs on them that serve as a distraction from the main goal. And as far as changing it up in USUM, if they were going to change it up, it should have been in Gen III. I can ask my aunt and uncle, they actually work in the advertisement industry.

                                  And besides, it's not like they can't include the boy trainers, anyways. With the exception of Gold, Silver, and Crystal (and the remakes) and possibly SM, Ash (well, technically Red, but still...) isn't even IN the games, much less acting as the playable character (even in GSC/HGSS/SM, he's an NPC), and using the boy characters would have sufficed just as well regarding advertising, arguably even MORE so.
                                  Well to me that would make the anime really boring if everyone doing the same thing with nothing different about how they going about it. But at this point how about we agree to disagree.
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