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Old 2 Weeks Ago (3:33 PM).
LDSman LDSman is offline
     
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    The US needs to up its space travel program.
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    Old 2 Weeks Ago (4:04 PM).
    EnglishALT EnglishALT is offline
       
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Nah View Post
      https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/03/10/in-budget-trump-to-ask-congress-for-dollar86-billion-for-border-wall/23688993/

      I'm not sure I understand why he's apparently planning to try to ask Congress again for wall funding when a) everybody knows they won't give it to him and b) he declared a national emergency to bypass them in the first place
      It’s a budget request so there is no harm really in putting it in there, Presidents usually do not get their budget requests approved, and not putting it in there could strengthen the case it is not an emergency.
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      Old 2 Weeks Ago (4:55 PM). Edited 2 Weeks Ago by TailsMK4.
      TailsMK4 TailsMK4 is offline
         
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
        The US needs to up its space travel program.
        Agreed, apparently billions of dollars (I have no source, just word of mouth), went to the Russians in order to get supplies up to the International Space Station. I don't know the whole "Space Force" thing Trump was talking about, and I could care less about that. I just believe that one of Obama's biggest mistakes was gutting the space program (it's actually a reason I had to change from wanting to be in the space program to a different field, my expertise became Computer Science/Programming), and one of the major reasons why I do not like the Democrat party. That's why I'm hopeful SpaceX is successful later on this year with bringing actual humans up to the space station, cause then our source of transportation can return to the US and we can hopefully get back to the progress we were making back when John F. Kennedy was hands-on on-board with the goal of reaching the Moon. Democrats like him I respect, and I wish there were more of those today, but that number is sharply going down. So I still think the program could be in trouble even if SpaceX does become successful.

        To stay on the actual topic of this discussion, though, the national emergency is very likely to be upheld, imo. The challenge in Congress will fail by veto, and it'll be up to SCOTUS to decide if it holds up in the court system.
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        Old 2 Weeks Ago (2:55 AM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Nah View Post
        https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/03/10/in-budget-trump-to-ask-congress-for-dollar86-billion-for-border-wall/23688993/



        I'm not sure I understand why he's apparently planning to try to ask Congress again for wall funding when a) everybody knows they won't give it to him and b) he declared a national emergency to bypass them in the first place
        It's almost like he's an entitled moron who just expects people to do whatever he wants and doesn't understand politics well enough to know that this actually hurts his bullmuk "national emergency". Almost.
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        Old 2 Weeks Ago (3:07 AM).
        EnglishALT EnglishALT is offline
           
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
          It's almost like he's an entitled moron who just expects people to do whatever he wants and doesn't understand politics well enough to know that this actually hurts his bullmuk "national emergency". Almost.
          How would it hurt his national emergency declaration? If anything not asking for it would seem to suggest there isn't an emergency.
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          Old 2 Weeks Ago (4:11 AM).
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          Quote:
          It's almost like he's an entitled moron who just expects people to do whatever he wants and doesn't understand politics well enough to know that this actually hurts his bullmuk "national emergency". Almost.
          Yes, sane voters have been saying that for the past two years.
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          Old 2 Weeks Ago (4:23 AM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by EnglishALT View Post
          How would it hurt his national emergency declaration? If anything not asking for it would seem to suggest there isn't an emergency.
          Asking Congress for money for the wall can also be interpreted as suggesting that there isn't an emergency, as going through the formal process of Congress--especially after it has rejected requests for wall money twice already--doesn't seem like something one would do if there is an emergency.

          And either way, he can get all the money he wants/needs for it via the emergency powers he now has for the moment, so why bother? Especially when he himself says that he'd like to "do it faster".
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          Old 2 Weeks Ago (4:27 AM).
          EnglishALT EnglishALT is offline
             
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Nah View Post
            Asking Congress for money for the wall can also be interpreted as suggesting that there isn't an emergency, as going through the formal process of Congress--especially after it has rejected requests for wall money twice already--doesn't seem like something one would do if there is an emergency.

            And either way, he can get all the money he wants/needs for it via the emergency powers he now has for the moment, so why bother? Especially when he himself says that he'd like to "do it faster".
            Obviously in an emergency situation you want to get the money as fast as possible, which is what the power is there for, as negotiating with Congress can take months and not all the money can be forthcoming. However by going through the formal process while also declaring an emergency it seems to signal that President Trump sees this as an emergency and is willing to use all available avenues to get the money for the duration of the emergency, and is not just merely doing this to spite Congress for not giving him the full amount as originally requested.
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            Old 2 Weeks Ago (6:39 AM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by EnglishALT View Post
            Obviously in an emergency situation you want to get the money as fast as possible, which is what the power is there for, as negotiating with Congress can take months and not all the money can be forthcoming. However by going through the formal process while also declaring an emergency it seems to signal that President Trump sees this as an emergency and is willing to use all available avenues to get the money for the duration of the emergency, and is not just merely doing this to spite Congress for not giving him the full amount as originally requested.
            How on Earth do you get that from this? He's already straight up said he doesn't actually need to treat this as an emergency and now he's making that even clearer by asking for money anyway now that he's done this. To the left it's further evidence that he's full of muk and to some of the right it's going to look like he's caving in to pressure from the dems.

            Meanwhile there's been actual disasters that have occurred and he's not only not called an emergency but he's been outright unhelpful. On what planet does this look good for him?
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            Old 2 Weeks Ago (8:32 AM). Edited 2 Weeks Ago by Maedar.
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            Quote:
            Meanwhile there's been actual disasters that have occurred and he's not only not called an emergency but he's been outright unhelpful. On what planet does this look good for him?
            Likely not the planet he assumes we can use the Space Force against.

            Trump is now claiming the Constitution does not matter:

            https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/supreme-court-disagrees-trump-gets-wrecked-saying-border-walls-constitutionality-doesnt-matter/?utm_source=push_notifications
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            Old 2 Weeks Ago (3:33 PM).
            EnglishALT EnglishALT is offline
               
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
              How on Earth do you get that from this? He's already straight up said he doesn't actually need to treat this as an emergency and now he's making that even clearer by asking for money anyway now that he's done this. To the left it's further evidence that he's full of muk and to some of the right it's going to look like he's caving in to pressure from the dems.
              Unless he actually removes the state of emergency I cannot see how it looks like a cave. Now if Congress grants the full funds in a timely fashion then he has been proven wrong, that he can get the full amount of funds to properly deal with the emergency at the border with out a declaration. If they do not then it just further underscores his point.

              Quote:
              Meanwhile there's been actual disasters that have occurred and he's not only not called an emergency but he's been outright unhelpful. On what planet does this look good for him?
              If you want we can go through each one and compare them to past presidential emergency declarations if you wish.
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              Old 2 Weeks Ago (4:57 PM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by EnglishALT View Post
              Unless he actually removes the state of emergency I cannot see how it looks like a cave. Now if Congress grants the full funds in a timely fashion then he has been proven wrong, that he can get the full amount of funds to properly deal with the emergency at the border with out a declaration. If they do not then it just further underscores his point.
              Congress aren't going to give him a dime because there's not an emergency. It looks like he's caving because he's not even acting quickly to deal with his "emergency" - it makes it look like it was all for show.


              Quote:
              If you want we can go through each one and compare them to past presidential emergency declarations if you wish.
              How about we compare the numerous deaths and millions of dollars of damage caused by the disasters he doesn't consider emergencies compared to the very few deaths caused by immigrants and the economic positives they provide for the US - including to Trump's own companies because he's a massive hypocrite.

              I'm not talking about previous presidents, I'm talking about Trump. Whatever previous leaders did or did not do does not excuse Trump's many failings.
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              Old 2 Weeks Ago (5:31 PM). Edited 2 Weeks Ago by EnglishALT.
              EnglishALT EnglishALT is offline
                 
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
                Congress aren't going to give him a dime because there's not an emergency. It looks like he's caving because he's not even acting quickly to deal with his "emergency" - it makes it look like it was all for show.
                Then you are proving Trump’s point that he cannot get the money to handle an emergency through Congress and thus needs to work through other channels to get funds for such an emergency.


                Quote:
                How about we compare the numerous deaths and millions of dollars of damage caused by the disasters he doesn't consider emergencies compared to the very few deaths caused by immigrants and the economic positives they provide for the US - including to Trump's own companies because he's a massive hypocrite.
                We can, for example Illegal immigration costs around 82,000 dollars, and illegal immigrants are not represented accurately in crime stats.

                https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/group-says-each-new-illegal-immigrant-costs-82-191-164-billion-over-decade

                https://fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration/scaap-data-suggest-illegal-aliens-commit-crime-much-higher-rate-citizens

                Quote:
                I'm not talking about previous presidents, I'm talking about Trump. Whatever previous leaders did or did not do does not excuse Trump's many failings.
                If we are going to establish a base line for emergencies it’s proper to compare and contrast when emergencies have been used in past presidencies.
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                Old 1 Week Ago (3:20 AM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by EnglishALT View Post
                Snip
                Studies show that immigrants - illegal or otherwise - are less likely to commit crimes than those born in the US.

                http://oxfordre.com/criminology/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190264079.001.0001/acrefore-9780190264079-e-93
                https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.04818f869b83

                Trump did not call a State of Emergency for Hurricane Maria ($91.61 billion), Irma ($64.76 billion) or Harvey ($125 billion) nor for their after effects. Nor was he particularly helpful to the victims - especially those is US occupied territories (weird how he cared the least about the Hispanic people isn't it?).

                Illegal immigrants have been beneficial and highly important to the US economy. This is something that we've known since Bush put forward a similar but slightly less ridiculous idea.

                http://theconversation.com/why-care-about-undocumented-immigrants-for-one-thing-theyve-become-vital-to-key-sectors-of-the-us-economy-98790
                https://www.cfr.org/report/economic-logic-illegal-immigrationhttps://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/4-myths-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

                Nevermind that a very sizeable number of the country's illegal immigrants are those that simply overstay their visas and don't leave and a border wall is going to do jackmuk about that anyway. It's a huge federal cost from a country that already has debt to worry about for no real benefit.


                Nice try with your comparisons but I repeat again, we aren't talking about other Presidents. We're talking about Trump and I'm not playing the whataboutism game. Whatever failings previous Presidents had will never excuse Trump's incompetence and lies.
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                Old 1 Week Ago (5:19 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by EnglishALT.
                EnglishALT EnglishALT is offline
                   
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                  I cannot see the Washington Post link as it’s been paywalled, however your first link seems to focus mostly on immigrants as a whole and not specifically the illegal immigrant community. Furthermore as the FAIR study points out most jurisdictions do not differentiate between illegal and legal immigrants in the information provided about their inmates thus deeper research is needed to show the impact.

                  Quote:
                  Trump did not call a State of Emergency for Hurricane Maria ($91.61 billion), Irma ($64.76 billion) or Harvey ($125 billion) nor for their after effects. Nor was he particularly helpful to the victims - especially those is US occupied territories (weird how he cared the least about the Hispanic people isn't it?).
                  Quote:
                  Nice try with your comparisons but I repeat again, we aren't talking about other Presidents. We're talking about Trump and I'm not playing the whataboutism game. Whatever failings previous Presidents had will never excuse Trump's incompetence and lies.
                  This is where it is important to compare and contrast previous emergencies with other Presidents.

                  However in terms of State of Emergencies.

                  Maria.
                  https://www.newsweek.com/trump-declares-state-emergency-puerto-rico-hurricane-maria-upgraded-category-5-667332

                  Irma
                  https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-state-of-emergency-hurricane-irma-2017-9

                  Harvey
                  https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/08/25/politics/trump-harvey-declaration/index.html


                  They are beneficial in terms of doing hard labor jobs, however as noted their overall costs outweighs any contributions made in terms of pure dollar effects on the taxpayer.

                  Quote:
                  Nevermind that a very sizeable number of the country's illegal immigrants are those that simply overstay their visas and don't leave and a border wall is going to do jackmuk about that anyway. It's a huge federal cost from a country that already has debt to worry about for no real benefit.
                  The VISA overstays are a problem however if the border wall stalls even 60 percent of illegal immigration, then it will be well worth it.

                  It’s also worth noting that VISA overstays atleast have proper background screening and are atleast in some way documented, the same cannot be said for the migrant that crosses the desert in the middle of nowhere.
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                  Old 1 Week Ago (11:07 AM).
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                  12 Republicans have crossed party lines:

                  https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/trump-faces-another-rebuke-senate-several-republicans-side-democrats/?utm_source=push_notifications

                  Seems this "national emergency" isn't as popular as he thought it was.
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                  Old 1 Week Ago (4:13 AM).
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                  ^So basically both the House and the Senate have voted against Trump's emergency declaration now, although not in a large enough margin to prevent Trump from vetoing. Which he obviously will do.
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                  Old 1 Week Ago (4:27 AM).
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