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  #1501    
Old November 20th, 2011 (12:47 PM).
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How would you feel if the queer movement wanted to include other people who face discrimination, such as people who are discriminated against because of their weight, or a disability?

I kinda feel like Nakuzami feels. Like, if it was decided that they would join us, I would be all "Sure come on in!" Because yeah, discrimination is wrong, so we don't want ANY.

On the other hand, one massive anti-discrimination group might be too large to be effective. :\ It would be difficult to keep track of everything, and some groups might harbor discriminatory feelings toward another group with the larger group. :\

Basically, I think, maybe rather than include them in the LGBTQIPAAOS group, maybe we could help them create their own group that focuses on helping them. That way, they could focus on helping themselves, which might be more effective.

I hope that makes sense. :\ I don't wanna exclude, but I think separate entities might be more effective.
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  #1502    
Old November 20th, 2011 (2:14 PM).
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Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
Ineffable~, if you don't mind my asking, what got your sister to change her song?
I honestly don't even know. She's kind of all over the place about it but lately she's given me a supportive vibe. For all I know she still thinks these things and just doesn't vocalise it any more. However living in the place she is with the people she hangs out with has changed her world view considerably from what my parents tend to think, so that may be it.


How would you feel if the queer movement wanted to include other people who face discrimination, such as people who are discriminated against because of their weight, or a disability?
Despite not really agreeing with the idea, I actually love when people propose this. It just makes me feel people are thinking the right way.
Almost nothing bothers me more than when someone says they "hate fat people" and I feel I hear it FAR more often than any gay or trans-related comments.
Regardless, I agree with Pikapal in the sense that I think it would be too large and unwieldy to join completely with groups like these; I mean after all we can ally without actually being one and the same.
Besides, I think we already fight together through things like "end discrimination" campaigns. Despite their obvious emphasis, discrimination means discrimination so when we fight against it, we fight for everyone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl.Alt.Geak View Post
Recently though I've began to wonder if I am trans. Its not something I want to think about too much at the moment, but it does play on my mind quite a bit.
What makes you think that, if you don't mind me asking?
__________________

#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


  #1503    
Old November 20th, 2011 (7:42 PM).
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Finally, internet! Time to catch up. I agree that anti-discrimination groups should stay with their subjects, like ours being sexuality. But some kind of occasional anti-discrimination get-together would be nice.
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  #1504    
Old November 21st, 2011 (5:21 AM).
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How would you feel if the queer movement wanted to include other people who face discrimination, such as people who are discriminated against because of their weight, or a disability?

While discrimination against anybody is of course wrong, I'm more cautious about grouping us together with people who face a different kind of discrimination. Being overweight in particular, discrimination aside, is a problem that needs to be fixed. It's a health issue that does require a remedy because it impacts upon the quality of life. By saying that, I'm not saying that discrimination against overweight people is justified by any means, but I have to wonder whether grouping the LGBT plight with that would send across the image that homosexuality too is a problem that needs fixing. I think that it would end up being detrimental to both causes. And that comes from someone who is gay and also used to be extremely overweight.

That said, I would be more than happy to help out in any anti-discrimination campaign, but I don't think that they should be linked together. It would be confusing for the public image.

Additionally, the LGBT community's movement is incredibly specific. In addition to ending the discrimination we face, we are also campaigning for specific rights. The right to marry, the right to serve our countries, the right to adopt etc. It doesn't make much sense for other minority groups that are discriminated against to join a fight in which they have no direct interest. Our fight is specific to us.

If all of us wronged parties wish to come together and help each other with our battles then I think that would be amazing, but for official purposes I think the causes need to remain separate.
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  #1505    
Old November 21st, 2011 (5:55 AM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post

    What makes you think that, if you don't mind me asking?
    I cant really 100% say for sure why I think this to be honest. I guess a lot of it comes from the idea that, for as long as I've been able to choose what I can wear, I've always cross-dressed and I feel its a huge compliment when someone mistakes my gender. Also I've always had a lot of hate towards my own body, especially through puberty.
    Of course what makes me re-think all of this is how I cant stand the opposite sex physically (so I why would I want to change my body to that).
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      #1506    
    Old November 21st, 2011 (10:25 AM).
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    Esper Esper is offline
     
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post

    I honestly don't even know. She's kind of all over the place about it but lately she's given me a supportive vibe. For all I know she still thinks these things and just doesn't vocalise it any more. However living in the place she is with the people she hangs out with has changed her world view considerably from what my parents tend to think, so that may be it.
    I hope she's changed her mind for the better. I know I sometimes worry that people think things and say different things and that kind of worrying is just unhealthy.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by U_Flame View Post
    Finally, internet! Time to catch up. I agree that anti-discrimination groups should stay with their subjects, like ours being sexuality. But some kind of occasional anti-discrimination get-together would be nice.
    But that's kind of what I was getting at a few posts ago. Trans people are not about sexuality (though some can be). It's about gender identity which is a separate thing even if it's sort of related. That's why I was asking about the whole mixing of different goals and groups and whether it would be good or not. Some gay people might not care so much for gender identity issues and a trans person might be more concerned with that than gay marriage.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ctrl.Alt.Geak View Post
    I cant really 100% say for sure why I think this to be honest. I guess a lot of it comes from the idea that, for as long as I've been able to choose what I can wear, I've always cross-dressed and I feel its a huge compliment when someone mistakes my gender. Also I've always had a lot of hate towards my own body, especially through puberty.
    Of course what makes me re-think all of this is how I cant stand the opposite sex physically (so I why would I want to change my body to that).
    When you say you can't stand the opposite sex physically do you mean that 1) they are the opposite sex of the sex you were given at birth and 2) that you are not attracted to that sex or that you can't stand the thought of being that sex? I'm just a little unsure which you mean, but I can say that it's perfectly normal for someone who is trans to be attracted to one sex or the other, or both, or none at all, regardless of what their own gender is. If that is something which is making you doubt what you're feeling, well, there's no need.

    Body hatred is something a lot of trans people feel, but it's also something that non-trans people feel, too, of course. (And of course there are trans people who don't feel this, and so on.) I guess what I'm trying to say is that instead of trying to pinpoint a term I'd encourage you just to do whatever you feel suits you best and not worry about the terminology. If you prefer to be thought of and addressed as one particular sex then you should let people know that. If you just want to dress a certain way without wanting other parts of your identity to be different then you should do that. I know it can be nice to say "I'm _____" and having some camaraderie with other people who are the same, but I would hope you'd be happier being true to yourself and carving out an identity for yourself. If it turns out that you're trans then good for you. If it turns out that you're asexual and genderfluid then good for you, too. As long as you're happy with yourself that's what matters.
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      #1507    
    Old November 21st, 2011 (11:18 AM).
    Ineffable~'s Avatar
    Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
    But that's kind of what I was getting at a few posts ago. Trans people are not about sexuality (though some can be). It's about gender identity which is a separate thing even if it's sort of related. That's why I was asking about the whole mixing of different goals and groups and whether it would be good or not. Some gay people might not care so much for gender identity issues and a trans person might be more concerned with that than gay marriage.
    The reason I see T together with LGB is because our struggles are similar and we fight for similar rights. People who are overweight and homeless have a problem that is solvable and that they weren't born with as a condition. (I realise people can be born into homelessness or inherit the "fat gene" or be born as big babies, however you're not born at 500 pounds and you're not born at a time where you don't have plenty of your life left, like older homeless do. I hope that makes sense.) LGBT people on the other hand don't have problems and we don't need to "solve" being gay, bi, lesbian or trans. It's not unhealthy to be gay, bi, lesbian or trans. Also the general consensus is that we were born this way. (People will disagree with this but it's what most of us say, so it's general consensus.) Most importantly, however, we all face issues such as gay marriage, coming out, pride, discrimination (most people that discriminate against gay people discriminate against trans people too, at least from what I've seen) among other things. For example, a trans woman marrying a man would be legally regarded as a gay marriage if the woman hasn't changed her legal gender to female. Also, from my own perspective, in some states I can't be married to a woman and be legally regarded as female at the same time, leaving my own transition and marriage at odds. Thus I think most trans people, gay or not, will benefit from gay marriage being made legal.
    . . . Sorry about the weird disorganised wall of text. ~_~

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ctrl.Alt.Geak View Post
    I cant really 100% say for sure why I think this to be honest. I guess a lot of it comes from the idea that, for as long as I've been able to choose what I can wear, I've always cross-dressed and I feel its a huge compliment when someone mistakes my gender. Also I've always had a lot of hate towards my own body, especially through puberty.
    Of course what makes me re-think all of this is how I cant stand the opposite sex physically (so I why would I want to change my body to that).
    Scarf stole most of what I was about to say but I can still be semi-helpful lol.
    I can't speak completely from the perspective of a heterosexual woman since I'm not one, but I'm sure for a totally heterosexual woman it's just as disgusting the idea of having sex with a woman despite being a woman herself . . . if that makes sense. Also there are even lesbian trans women I've known that have had something similar to disgust when having sex with a woman (as a man). That is to say, she would feel horrible and depressed and start crying due to the whole position being wrong.

    By all this I mean I don't think being disgusted with the opposite sex is any reason to doubt being trans. Other than that I think you should try some of Scarf's ideas. Just do whatever makes you feel comfortable.
    __________________

    #077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
    Fire ~ Field eggs
    3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

    Its hooves are 10 times harder
    than diamonds. It can trample
    anything completely flat in moments.

    Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
    Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
    Locations: Pokémon Mansion

    Cry

    Other names:

    jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
    de: Ponita
    fr: Ponyta
    cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


      #1508    
    Old November 21st, 2011 (11:37 AM).
    Esper's Avatar
    Esper Esper is offline
     
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post
    The reason I see T together with LGB is because our struggles are similar and we fight for similar rights. People who are overweight and homeless have a problem that is solvable and that they weren't born with as a condition. (I realise people can be born into homelessness or inherit the "fat gene" or be born as big babies, however you're not born at 500 pounds and you're not born at a time where you don't have plenty of your life left, like older homeless do. I hope that makes sense.) LGBT people on the other hand don't have problems and we don't need to "solve" being gay, bi, lesbian or trans. It's not unhealthy to be gay, bi, lesbian or trans. Also the general consensus is that we were born this way. (People will disagree with this but it's what most of us say, so it's general consensus.) Most importantly, however, we all face issues such as gay marriage, coming out, pride, discrimination (most people that discriminate against gay people discriminate against trans people too, at least from what I've seen) among other things. For example, a trans woman marrying a man would be legally regarded as a gay marriage if the woman hasn't changed her legal gender to female. Also, from my own perspective, in some states I can't be married to a woman and be legally regarded as female at the same time, leaving my own transition and marriage at odds. Thus I think most trans people, gay or not, will benefit from gay marriage being made legal.
    . . . Sorry about the weird disorganised wall of text. ~_~
    That wasn't disorganized. Don't worry. And I pretty much agree with everything you said.

    Now I'm kind of regretting using overweight people as my example though. I wanted to bring up the idea of gay rights in conjunction with women's rights and the rights of racial minorities since those are people who can face discrimination for something that they shouldn't. I just didn't want to turn the conversation toward a discussion about feminism and racism since, I dunno, I didn't think people would want to talk about those topics here.
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      #1509    
    Old November 21st, 2011 (11:57 AM).
    Oryx's Avatar
    Oryx Oryx is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
    That wasn't disorganized. Don't worry. And I pretty much agree with everything you said.

    Now I'm kind of regretting using overweight people as my example though. I wanted to bring up the idea of gay rights in conjunction with women's rights and the rights of racial minorities since those are people who can face discrimination for something that they shouldn't. I just didn't want to turn the conversation toward a discussion about feminism and racism since, I dunno, I didn't think people would want to talk about those topics here.
    As far as sexism, I feel like that is included in a way. I mean, many lesbians prefer to be more 'butch' which brings up the issues of whether or not that's how a 'real' woman acts, etc. So I feel like while the issue itself might not often be included in name, it's always implicitly involved in LGBT issues.

    As far as racism, I honestly think that that issue is strongest on its own. While people still openly can say "I think gay marriage is wrong", it's pretty much an accepted truth (at least among the educated) that for example being against interracial marriage is wrong and such. Because it's been so widely accepted that being racist is 'wrong', while for LGBT issues it's not as widely accepted yet, I feel bundling the two together would weaken the stance that racism takes because instead of people seeing the connection and taking as strong a stance about LGBT issues, they might instead see the connection and take a less strong stance on racism issues.
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      #1510    
    Old November 21st, 2011 (12:05 PM).
    Ineffable~'s Avatar
    Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
    That wasn't disorganized. Don't worry. And I pretty much agree with everything you said.
    Yay. :3

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toujours View Post


    As far as sexism, I feel like that is included in a way. I mean, many lesbians prefer to be more 'butch' which brings up the issues of whether or not that's how a 'real' woman acts, etc. So I feel like while the issue itself might not often be included in name, it's always implicitly involved in LGBT issues.

    As far as racism, I honestly think that that issue is strongest on its own. While people still openly can say "I think gay marriage is wrong", it's pretty much an accepted truth (at least among the educated) that for example being against interracial marriage is wrong and such. Because it's been so widely accepted that being racist is 'wrong', while for LGBT issues it's not as widely accepted yet, I feel bundling the two together would weaken the stance that racism takes because instead of people seeing the connection and taking as strong a stance about LGBT issues, they might instead see the connection and take a less strong stance on racism issues.
    This this this omg.

    . . . To keep this from being a spam post I'll just say I also think racial minorities and women/men are just too "common". I mean I would be incredibly surprised at anyone who's never seen a male or a female in their life, and racial minorities, despite being minorities, are quite common in America. My point being LGBT people are not all over the map like some people, and people often don't have to think about the issue at all because they don't meet gay or trans people. Also, even if they did meet gay or trans people, they wouldn't know it because it's not a "visible" condition. The only way you can perfectly tell if someone is gay is if they either tell you or they walk around with their significant other being cute. I have known tonnes of people who claim to have never met a lesbian before me, and at least four people in this thread have never met a trans person before (and probably WAY more than that).
    __________________

    #077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
    Fire ~ Field eggs
    3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

    Its hooves are 10 times harder
    than diamonds. It can trample
    anything completely flat in moments.

    Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
    Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
    Locations: Pokémon Mansion

    Cry

    Other names:

    jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
    de: Ponita
    fr: Ponyta
    cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


      #1511    
    Old November 21st, 2011 (12:28 PM).
    Esper's Avatar
    Esper Esper is offline
     
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
    As far as sexism, I feel like that is included in a way. I mean, many lesbians prefer to be more 'butch' which brings up the issues of whether or not that's how a 'real' woman acts, etc. So I feel like while the issue itself might not often be included in name, it's always implicitly involved in LGBT issues.

    As far as racism, I honestly think that that issue is strongest on its own. While people still openly can say "I think gay marriage is wrong", it's pretty much an accepted truth (at least among the educated) that for example being against interracial marriage is wrong and such. Because it's been so widely accepted that being racist is 'wrong', while for LGBT issues it's not as widely accepted yet, I feel bundling the two together would weaken the stance that racism takes because instead of people seeing the connection and taking as strong a stance about LGBT issues, they might instead see the connection and take a less strong stance on racism issues.
    I think it's interesting that when I used the terms "women's rights" and "feminism" you used the term "sexism". Just observing.

    But before I totally derail this thread I do want to point out that the gay rights movement as a whole has a very white face and there are some varying levels of, if not racism, then racial ... ignorance? ... within it. Like a gay friend of mine has told me that there a lot of gay men who have a "no fats, no Asians" policy when it comes to dating and are very public about this. I personally don't like to see other issues/groups getting sidelined for one group's cause.
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      #1512    
    Old November 21st, 2011 (12:45 PM).
    Ineffable~'s Avatar
    Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
    Like a gay friend of mine has told me that there a lot of gay men who have a "no fats, no Asians" policy when it comes to dating and are very public about this. I personally don't like to see other issues/groups getting sidelined for one group's cause.
    Gay people excluding or being racist is its own problem. I don't think there's an immediate solution to this unfortunately. :(

    I think the only way we could "give LGBT less of a white face" is by just individually participating more in general anti-discrimination stuff, i.e. focusing on ALL anti-discrimination. That's what I'm all about. :P We, as LGBT people that aren't racist, can try and go out and show how we don't want any discrimination ever. Try to emphasise this on your own terms by doing your own good things. However you can't get white racist people to care about minorities . . . you just can't do it.
    __________________

    #077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
    Fire ~ Field eggs
    3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

    Its hooves are 10 times harder
    than diamonds. It can trample
    anything completely flat in moments.

    Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
    Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
    Locations: Pokémon Mansion

    Cry

    Other names:

    jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
    de: Ponita
    fr: Ponyta
    cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


      #1513    
    Old November 22nd, 2011 (5:47 AM).
    Ctrl.Alt.Geak's Avatar
    Ctrl.Alt.Geak Ctrl.Alt.Geak is offline
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
      When you say you can't stand the opposite sex physically do you mean that 1) they are the opposite sex of the sex you were given at birth and 2) that you are not attracted to that sex or that you can't stand the thought of being that sex? I'm just a little unsure which you mean, but I can say that it's perfectly normal for someone who is trans to be attracted to one sex or the other, or both, or none at all, regardless of what their own gender is. If that is something which is making you doubt what you're feeling, well, there's no need.

      Body hatred is something a lot of trans people feel, but it's also something that non-trans people feel, too, of course. (And of course there are trans people who don't feel this, and so on.) I guess what I'm trying to say is that instead of trying to pinpoint a term I'd encourage you just to do whatever you feel suits you best and not worry about the terminology. If you prefer to be thought of and addressed as one particular sex then you should let people know that. If you just want to dress a certain way without wanting other parts of your identity to be different then you should do that. I know it can be nice to say "I'm _____" and having some camaraderie with other people who are the same, but I would hope you'd be happier being true to yourself and carving out an identity for yourself. If it turns out that you're trans then good for you. If it turns out that you're asexual and genderfluid then good for you, too. As long as you're happy with yourself that's what matters.
      When I say I cannot stand the opposite sex physically, I mean 1) I was born female and I cannot stand the sight of the male body whatsoever and 2) because I cannot stand males physically as much as I do, I am concerned that I would abousolutely hate looking at myself in the mirror.
      However, while I am attracted to females I really cannot stand being in a female body either and am constantly trying to appear to be as masculine as possible and prefer to be adressed by male pronouns.

      Maybe I should have just said that to begin with.

      I really do appreciate your and Ineffable's input though :)
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        #1514    
      Old November 22nd, 2011 (7:33 AM).
      magma_wolf's Avatar
      magma_wolf magma_wolf is offline
         
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
        Well, before figuring out how, do you think it would be safe to tell your parents? That's the most important thing to ask before you decide if you should. I'm probably sounding overly cautious, but you never know.

        If you're going to tell them then you could do it in person or by some other means if you don't feel you can tell them directly (like by calling them or something). I would think it would be better to tell them in person though unless you really don't think you could. You can also think about telling one of them before the other, or another family member first. If you have anyone else you might think would be more sympathetic (and could maybe stand by you when you tell your parents) that could be a big help. You'd have someone to support you and you'd already have gone through the coming out process with someone in your family/someone you're close to.

        But yeah, it's not something that we can really advice on without knowing your situation. We wouldn't want to give you bad advice on accident.
        well my mom probaly has figured it out so im not worried about her. but my dad hates gay men but loves lesbians so i dont know what i should do
          #1515    
        Old November 22nd, 2011 (8:29 AM).
        Esper's Avatar
        Esper Esper is offline
         
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Ctrl.Alt.Geak View Post
        When I say I cannot stand the opposite sex physically, I mean 1) I was born female and I cannot stand the sight of the male body whatsoever and 2) because I cannot stand males physically as much as I do, I am concerned that I would abousolutely hate looking at myself in the mirror.
        However, while I am attracted to females I really cannot stand being in a female body either and am constantly trying to appear to be as masculine as possible and prefer to be adressed by male pronouns.

        Maybe I should have just said that to begin with.

        I really do appreciate your and Ineffable's input though :)
        I can understand you not wanting to go into detail though, especially with strangers, so it's okay you didn't say that to begin with. Your situation is one that I don't think there is a single term to describe (at least not one I know of) so like I said before, just do what makes you happiest. It sounds like you know what you want and that's good.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by magma_wolf View Post
        well my mom probaly has figured it out so im not worried about her. but my dad hates gay men but loves lesbians so i dont know what i should do
        Well, again, we don't want to give you the wrong advice, but if you think your mom would be supportive you could have her be with you when/if you tell your dad. If you're close with your dad then I would think he'd be able to get over himself once he realized you're family. I know enough people who worried about telling their dads only to have very anti-climactic coming out stories. But anyway, if/when you decide to tell him you could always plan to have a travel bag of clothes and things ready and a friend who'll let you stay over for a night or two. Just in case.
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          #1516    
        Old November 22nd, 2011 (9:26 AM).
        Ineffable~'s Avatar
        Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Ctrl.Alt.Geak View Post
        When I say I cannot stand the opposite sex physically, I mean 1) I was born female and I cannot stand the sight of the male body whatsoever and 2) because I cannot stand males physically as much as I do, I am concerned that I would abousolutely hate looking at myself in the mirror.
        However, while I am attracted to females I really cannot stand being in a female body either and am constantly trying to appear to be as masculine as possible and prefer to be adressed by male pronouns.

        Maybe I should have just said that to begin with.

        I really do appreciate your and Ineffable's input though :)
        Derp, I thought you were born male. @[email protected];
        I can't give much helpful advice, just do whatever you can you know?

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by magma_wolf View Post
        well my mom probaly has figured it out so im not worried about her. but my dad hates gay men but loves lesbians so i dont know what i should do
        Do you think your mother would be accepting about it? If you think she would be supportive then, like Scarf said, you can always use her as a sort of mediator or perhaps even have her tell your father. Also if you have siblings or friends that you think would be supportive, it might make it easier to come out to them first. Make sure you have at least a few people "on your side" before making any rash moves.
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        #077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
        Fire ~ Field eggs
        3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

        Its hooves are 10 times harder
        than diamonds. It can trample
        anything completely flat in moments.

        Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
        Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
        Locations: Pokémon Mansion

        Cry

        Other names:

        jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
        de: Ponita
        fr: Ponyta
        cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


          #1517    
        Old November 23rd, 2011 (3:12 AM).
        Shining Raichu's Avatar
        Shining Raichu Shining Raichu is offline
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
        But before I totally derail this thread I do want to point out that the gay rights movement as a whole has a very white face and there are some varying levels of, if not racism, then racial ... ignorance? ... within it. Like a gay friend of mine has told me that there a lot of gay men who have a "no fats, no Asians" policy when it comes to dating and are very public about this. I personally don't like to see other issues/groups getting sidelined for one group's cause.
        I don't think this is particularly a case of racism. While being so open about it and putting it in the form of some official policy is incredibly tasteless, I think this is just a matter of attraction. The blunt truth is that a lot of people are not attracted to overweight people and Asian people.

        The issue I have with that is that by being outspoken about that, it creates a culture of disrespect toward both and a sense that you are above them in some way. That would be the racist aspect, but the core attraction concept isn't.
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          #1518    
        Old November 23rd, 2011 (11:11 AM). Edited November 23rd, 2011 by Alternative.
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        -ty- -ty- is offline
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          I think that some gay people, including myself to an extent, strive to almost dispose of any "pejorative" qualities we have; essentially, perfectionism, in order to compensate for how others perceive our sexuality. I don't pretend to act straight, but I would say that I try to be very ambitious, stay in shape, and plan to get married and have children. Basically, possess the qualities that most men who are straight envy.

          Sometimes I feel like i have to separate myself from the "******", "slackers", "druggies" and "chubs" in my dating life, and aside from the "chubs" category, I would not be friends with those that I would place into those categories. Although the labels seem harsh, I would never treat anyone in these categories poorly as a person, but I don't identify with them, and I think it is fair for me to exclude them from my love life. As far as race goes...I have a tendency to be more attracted to Caucasian men and mixed Caucasian men, but I think that there are attractive people from all ethnicities. I think white gay men feel like they have more in common with other white gay men, and they may also think that dating a white man is less pejorative than dating a person of color, going back to the whole compensation for being homosexual; I don't think it is horrible for those gay men to exclude other races from their dating life, but I think that it is a limiting prerequisite that will downsize their selection pool of gay men to date, in a pool that is already sparse. But hey, I may be a bit of a hypocrite because I won't date overweight men, thus, cutting my own selection pool.
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            #1519    
          Old November 23rd, 2011 (1:54 PM). Edited November 24th, 2011 by Alice.
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          Alice Alice is offline
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by -ty- View Post
          Sometimes I feel like i have to separate myself from the "******", "slackers", "druggies" and "chubs" in my dating life, and aside from the "chubs" category, I would not be friends with those that I would place into those categories.
          I think that's just called having standards. lol

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by QuilavaKing View Post
          I don't recall anyone ever mentioning my sexuality in any way actually. Some of my friends knew that I liked a girl named Allison, and the rest were all nerds and didn't have girlfriends either, so I don't think anyone had any reason to question it. lol
          Sort of off topic, but I just remembered, completely out of nowhere, that I used to tell people "I'm a Christian, I can't be Gay." so people must have asked me. I don't remember ever actually being asked though lol.
            #1520    
          Old November 23rd, 2011 (10:08 PM).
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          U.Flame U.Flame is offline
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by -ty- View Post
          I think that some gay people, including myself to an extent, strive to almost dispose of any "pejorative" qualities we have; essentially, perfectionism, in order to compensate for how others perceive our sexuality. I don't pretend to act straight, but I would say that I try to be very ambitious, stay in shape, and plan to get married and have children. Basically, possess the qualities that most men who are straight envy.

          Sometimes I feel like i have to separate myself from the "******", "slackers", "druggies" and "chubs" in my dating life, and aside from the "chubs" category, I would not be friends with those that I would place into those categories. Although the labels seem harsh, I would never treat anyone in these categories poorly as a person, but I don't identify with them, and I think it is fair for me to exclude them from my love life. As far as race goes...I have a tendency to be more attracted to Caucasian men and mixed Caucasian men, but I think that there are attractive people from all ethnicities. I think white gay men feel like they have more in common with other white gay men, and they may also think that dating a white man is less pejorative than dating a person of color, going back to the whole compensation for being homosexual; I don't think it is horrible for those gay men to exclude other races from their dating life, but I think that it is a limiting prerequisite that will downsize their selection pool of gay men to date, in a pool that is already sparse. But hey, I may be a bit of a hypocrite because I won't date overweight men, thus, cutting my own selection pool.
          I also treat people equally but I too can't help not being attracted to overweight people. (even though I'm a little overweight myself T_T) But I find any race attractive unlike people I know. A lot of people tell me they can't see themselves dating anyone black. I can, I've seen many black girls in my school that I would like to date. As well as whites, asians, pretty much anyone. I'd think I wouldn't have much trouble finding dates because I'm straight (no offense) but a surprising amount of people think I'm gay because I support gay rights.
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            #1521    
          Old November 24th, 2011 (12:06 AM).
          Shining Raichu's Avatar
          Shining Raichu Shining Raichu is offline
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by QuilavaKing View Post
          I think that's just called having standards. lol
          I lol'd, a lot. Honestly ty, if that's the best stock you've managed to come up with as boyfriends in the past, then I think you need to start looking in a different place.
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            #1522    
          Old November 24th, 2011 (12:24 AM).
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          Kura Kura is offline
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            I don't think it's just a gay thing either.. ._. Like I, for one, can find people of different races to be good looking, but, to be honest, I found I can only truly be attracted to paler skinned people. (This is if we're talking about physicality only.)
            I don't know what it is, really.. like I can look at a black guy and say "he's good looking/ he's really handsome" but I don't feel an attraction : | *Shrug*~
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              #1523    
            Old November 24th, 2011 (12:40 AM).
            Ineffable~'s Avatar
            Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Kura View Post
            I don't think it's just a gay thing either.. ._. Like I, for one, can find people of different races to be good looking, but, to be honest, I found I can only truly be attracted to paler skinned people. (This is if we're talking about physicality only.)
            I don't know what it is, really.. like I can look at a black guy and say "he's good looking/ he's really handsome" but I don't feel an attraction : | *Shrug*~
            I get this same exact thing. I just don't like really dark skin. It's not even a race thing, because I don't even get attracted to white people that are really tan. It's just, iunno, dark skin isn't for me. That doesn't mean I have to go around saying "black people get outta my face y'all r sick homely mofos". ~_~ Let's have our manners.
            __________________

            #077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
            Fire ~ Field eggs
            3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

            Its hooves are 10 times harder
            than diamonds. It can trample
            anything completely flat in moments.

            Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
            Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
            Locations: Pokémon Mansion

            Cry

            Other names:

            jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
            de: Ponita
            fr: Ponyta
            cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


              #1524    
            Old November 24th, 2011 (12:46 AM).
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            Jubilation Jubilation is offline
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              I honestly don't have any racism or dislike towards another race, but it's moreso that I have a favouritism towards pale men (just a thing I like - call it fetish if you must).

              On a side note, my schools 3 / 4 Media class is doing the autobiographical film Milk as one of it's texts alongside Modern Family which I think will show gay culture to an otherwise heterosexual school and broaden their views.
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                #1525    
              Old November 24th, 2011 (1:21 AM).
              Shining Raichu's Avatar
              Shining Raichu Shining Raichu is offline
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              I love Modern Family, but I'm not sure that showing them sitcom gays is really a way to open their eyes, particularly if you're trying to defend against stereotyping lol
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