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[Developing] Pokemon Great Tenkaichi

What battle screen do you prefer? [i](Please read the new battle screen description before voting.)[

  • New battle screen ([url=https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=9751247#post9751247]described

    Votes: 4 80.0%
  • Classic Pokemon battle screen

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Total voters
    5
  • Poll closed .

LorisC

Nothing is real, everything is permitted!
203
Posts
6
Years
What should be possible to do is to make every move used by androids behave like double kick, if I'm right there is an item that does that thing, I can use its code where needed.

Priority can be used to attack before everything else, but not 2 times in a row.

I can't decide the duration of status effects, they depends only on the targeted pokemon, so duplicating the sleep one won't work.
Maybe the flinch one will be possible.

Said that, I was thinking that making the androids able to attack 2 times, no matter everything else, easily becomes too powerful.

------------

Ok, I've checked... Its possible to make every move a multi-hit move like double-kick using an ability, so that might be the solution to our problem.

Now, as I said before, I think it's better to put a limit on when Androids double hits, because if we let them always attack twice, they'll be too powerful!
I was thinking to use a simple probability, something like "66% of the attacks will be Double Hits".
 
Last edited:
128
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11
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  • Seen Dec 29, 2020
What should be possible to do is to make every move used by androids behave like double kick, if I'm right there is an item that does that thing, I can use its code where needed.

Priority can be used to attack before everything else, but not 2 times in a row.

I can't decide the duration of status effects, they depends only on the targeted pokemon, so duplicating the sleep one won't work.
Maybe the flinch one will be possible.

Said that, I was thinking that making the androids able to attack 2 times, no matter everything else, easily becomes too powerful.

------------

Ok, I've checked... Its possible to make every move a multi-hit move like double-kick using an ability, so that might be the solution to our problem.

Now, as I said before, I think it's better to put a limit on when Androids double hits, because if we let them always attack twice, they'll be too powerful!
I was thinking to use a simple probability, something like "66% of the attacks will be Double Hits".
That seems legit. To compensate their offensive stats could be very low.

I have made some progress with the starter stats. I generated some query's and moved them to exist to calculate some conclusions. It's not much yet but maybe it can help to get some kind of basepoint:



Edite:

Managed to calculate the stat range of starters for their first stage:

gGNVCbI.jpg


Edite 2

Majin Starters stage 1 stats calculated, Salaga might be a little bit to offensive tho and for Kabra I had to include more point to his total stats. Else he would fail the tank fantasy as a viable tank fighters. This offcourse can still need to be reballanced in playtesting:

YWGoo5f.png


Edite 3
Also found 2 other characters from other games:

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Tekka
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Pinich

Pinich has a few forms:
- Super Saiyan
- Ultra Pinich (fusion between Pinich, Cell & Freeza)
- - The Ultra Pinich's Golden Great Ape form
- ??? (fusion between Pinich & Tekka)
- Pinita (fusion between Pinich & Vegeta)
-- http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Pinita

But that's just some bonus stuff that can be used if the game every reaches the compleet stage.
 
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LorisC

Nothing is real, everything is permitted!
203
Posts
6
Years
Edite 3
Also found 2 other characters from other games:

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Tekka
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Pinich

Pinich has a few forms:
- Super Saiyan
- Ultra Pinich (fusion between Pinich, Cell & Freeza)
- - The Ultra Pinich's Golden Great Ape form
- ??? (fusion between Pinich & Tekka)
- Pinita (fusion between Pinich & Vegeta)
-- http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Pinita

But that's just some bonus stuff that can be used if the game every reaches the compleet stage.

Interesting.. you found Tekka and Pinich from Dragon Ball Fusions!
I've seen them, the game has some interesting fusions!

Maxi Fusions, i.e. fusions of 5 characters, can be interesting too, but I haven't found a good image of anyone of them!
There are some of them used by particular characters + some other ones based on species.


Anyway, I almost finished including the starters, once finished I'll post the updated pokemon.txt.
 

LorisC

Nothing is real, everything is permitted!
203
Posts
6
Years
I have a news!
Dragon Ball heroes will add a new Class-Up above the God one!

For now the only example is Beat SSj Blue:
506
 
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LorisC

Nothing is real, everything is permitted!
203
Posts
6
Years
Interesting.. you found Tekka and Pinich from Dragon Ball Fusions!
I've seen them, the game has some interesting fusions!

Maxi Fusions, i.e. fusions of 5 characters, can be interesting too, but I haven't found a good image of anyone of them!
There are some of them used by particular characters + some other ones based on species.


Anyway, I almost finished including the starters, once finished I'll post the updated pokemon.txt.

Added the starters and updated the pokemon.txt file.

In the meantime I also had an idea regarding the ability for Beat and Note!
Their ability is what lets them turn SSj, something like "Turn SSj if health is less than 50%", after all the Saiyans are unique for their possibility to transform.
Once reached the SSj God stage, the ability will change into something else.
 
128
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  • Seen Dec 29, 2020
Anyway, I almost finished including the starters, once finished I'll post the updated pokemon.txt.

Great, I'm almost done with setting up the formula's in excel. Than it will be easyier to see the limitations each fighter can have in his stats. Their are a few rules with those categories that don't need calculations like:

- Semi-Pseudo class: Final form need a high base stat but can't be higher than 599.
- Pseudo class: Final form Need a base stat of 600, this also includes for fighters till evolution level 64 (that is the gap so far)

With 4 evolution we have twee options. And that's adding a fan category like:
- Total-Pseudo class where the minimum base stat is 680 of their total form.

It seems that legendaries & mysticals are just markings and don't follow the rules of the stat categories. That's probally because it's split into trio's, pure and mysticals with:
- Trio's having total stats of 580, this has changed to 600 in later versions tho (with duo's)
-- The lowest is 570 so far
- Pure's having total stats of 680,
-- Pseudo-Pure's have total stats of 670
-- Form change have total stats of 660-700
- Mysicals having total stats of 600

Pre-Evolutions of legendary so far have arround the 400 base stats.

I have a news!
Dragon Ball heroes will add a new Class-Up above the God one!

For now the only example is Beat SSj Blue:
506
Will they give a class-up for all other races or just the saiyans? If it's only for the saiyan than it doesn't really a require a chance of the ability. If it's really a change to all classes than their will be 5 stages. O boy.

Added the starters and updated the pokemon.txt file.

In the meantime I also had an idea regarding the ability for Beat and Note!
Their ability is what lets them turn SSj, something like "Turn SSj if health is less than 50%", after all the Saiyans are unique for their possibility to transform.
Once reached the SSj God stage, the ability will change into something else.

Is it possible to combine with with mega evolutions? Or are you using that mechanic to use that. If it can be combined it can solve the stages problem.
 

LorisC

Nothing is real, everything is permitted!
203
Posts
6
Years
Great, I'm almost done with setting up the formula's in excel. Than it will be easyier to see the limitations each fighter can have in his stats. Their are a few rules with those categories that don't need calculations like:

- Semi-Pseudo class: Final form need a high base stat but can't be higher than 599.
- Pseudo class: Final form Need a base stat of 600, this also includes for fighters till evolution level 64 (that is the gap so far)

With 4 evolution we have twee options. And that's adding a fan category like:
- Total-Pseudo class where the minimum base stat is 680 of their total form.

It seems that legendaries & mysticals are just markings and don't follow the rules of the stat categories. That's probally because it's split into trio's, pure and mysticals with:
- Trio's having total stats of 580, this has changed to 600 in later versions tho (with duo's)
-- The lowest is 570 so far
- Pure's having total stats of 680,
-- Pseudo-Pure's have total stats of 670
-- Form change have total stats of 660-700
- Mysicals having total stats of 600

Pre-Evolutions of legendary so far have arround the 400 base stats.


Will they give a class-up for all other races or just the saiyans? If it's only for the saiyan than it doesn't really a require a chance of the ability. If it's really a change to all classes than their will be 5 stages. O boy.



Is it possible to combine with with mega evolutions? Or are you using that mechanic to use that. If it can be combined it can solve the stages problem.

We will have fighter with more evolution stages than pokemons, so I think at least a new category will be needed.

Regarding the new class-up, we don't know. For now only beat and note have their new transformation revealed, but I think it'll be applied to all the starters.

I'll take a look of it's possible to do... Mega evolutions require only a mega stone or a move, so they won't work with other kinds of conditions, but we can always use another type of form change.
 
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128
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  • Seen Dec 29, 2020
We will have fighter with more evolution stages than pokemons, so I think at least a new category will be needed.

Regarding the new class-up, we don't know. For now only beat and note have their new transformation revealed, but I think it'll be applied to all the starters.

I'll take a look of it's possible to do... Mega evolutions require only a mega stone or a move, so they won't work with other kinds of conditions, but we can always use another type of form change.

Yeah I'm already looking into it. I started with the levels but I noticed they where not related. However I did found out 2 possible leveling formulas for the starters. These are the two:

The minimal formula: 16, 36, 48, 60, <72>, <84>, <96>
The reverser formula: 16, 36, 54, 70, <84>, <96>

I personally think the reverser formula would suit best ballance wise. Even if they add another class next to the planned blue class we still have a level slot left. The minimal option however allows to reach the max evolution of the starter a lot faster. If you known the current evolution level limit in pokémon is 64 than reaching numbers like 72 will be already hard. We don't want to let people give up on evolving something with crazy requirements.

I will let it up to you to decide.

As far the stats goes I got these result so far:

ZjfnYQ1.png


So a stage 4 evolution for a starter means he surpasses the Pseudo Legendary group. However even on stage 5 it won't surpass the max power of the single legendary group. So in those terms it's still alright.

Also worth to note is that so far all Pseudo Legendaries have 600 total stats. But it's never mentioned that value can't go higher. So far we known that's just the minimal and the maximal add the same time. So that can easy get upcapped to a larger amount (let's say 670).

One other thing to note is that mysticals where set to 600 and refer as the base in power. If that base is surpassed than I guess the number of mysticals should go up. I would set it to 700 just to be sure.

Currently I used this formula: = stage3+( ( stage3-stage2 ) / 1.5 )
I can reduce it even more but I have the feeling you won't feel the different in power than:
- Between stage 2 & 3 their is a different of 115 stats. (for reaching level 36)
- Between stage 3 & 4 their is a different of 80 stats. (for reaching level 54)
- Between stage 4 & 5 their is a different of 30 stats. (for reaching level 70)

So anymore reduction won't be noticable. To give an example, a mega evolution add 100 total stats to a fighter.
 

LorisC

Nothing is real, everything is permitted!
203
Posts
6
Years
Added Koichiarator:
qFzQrom.png


And with it the 3-Way fusion mechanic... I still have to tune up some things, but it works.
 
128
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Added Koichiarator:
qFzQrom.png


And with it the 3-Way fusion mechanic... I still have to tune up some things, but it works.

Well the 3-Way fusion was common anyway. Just wait for the 4 &5-way fusions...

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Ultra_Fusion
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Ultra_Fusion

Also I noticed their is a differents between the mechanic fusion and merging. I believe it has todo with who is in controle. With fusion every mind still exist. But in terms of merging they form one whole. An example of this is:
- The merging of Android 17 to create Super 17 (it's unknown that they can split after) edite [seem to be Machine Mutant Fusion, so I believe they cannot split]
- Bibidi re-merge with his doppelgangers (it's unknown that they can split after)
- The Pilaf Machine (this is basicly the exact same mechanic Koichiarator is using, I first thought Paparoni was involve in the fusion requirement. But it seem to be a translation error and he just send out the command)
- The Beenz brothers Rasin and Lakasei are classed as a merge
- The brothers Abo and Kado to form Aka is a merge

What my theory about merging is that in the case of merging. Both movepools that all fighters use come available upon merging. It doesn't seems to they are able to create new moves unlike their fusion counterpart. While with fusion they have a total new movepool avaiable with some elements from their own movepool. Not sure how this implement this practicly since it clearly seems merging exist with having the option to split them in mind.

My guess is using the mechanic you had in mind for the The Pilaf Machine for this.

---- So in terms a 3 way fusion doesn't exist yet (maybe in some game dunno) It's a 3-Way Merging that is on the table.

Full list:
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Fusion

So to come back to the Machine Mutant Fusion

- Android 17 and Hell Fighter 17 fusing
- the Sigma Force Machine Mutants (Nezi, Ribet and Bizu) fuse to become the Super Mega Cannon Sigma.

Their is also something else: After Goku destroys the Super Mega Cannon Sigma, General Rilldo absorbs the remains to become Hyper Meta-Rilldo.

It is presented in such a way that suggests it is a racial ability of all machine mutant characters. So this means that all android have this ability??? But that's not totally true since 17 needed an exact copy of him to fuse. So maybe ideas for a super 18. I dunno.
 
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LorisC

Nothing is real, everything is permitted!
203
Posts
6
Years
These fusions (or merges, or everything else similar!) are abilities of certain characters.
Android 17 won't have it, but hell fighter 17 will.

Another thing to note is that, after a fusion, it won't be possible to split it, mainly because it isn't possible for me to save everything needed to split a fusion into its materials.
 
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I have made a sheet for a potentional early encounter fighter. This is what I have collected so far from it. Dunno what kind ability he should be using but my guess is something like guts or something:

eDALijE.jpg
 

LorisC

Nothing is real, everything is permitted!
203
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6
Years
I'm adding the possibility to edit Moves in my program, once finished, I'm planning to start adding some Dragon Ball moves into the game.

@CoolKnightST, if you agree I'd leave the stats to you for now, I've seen you're pretty good at handling them!
 
128
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I'm adding the possibility to edit Moves in my program, once finished, I'm planning to start adding some Dragon Ball moves into the game.

@CoolKnightST, if you agree I'd leave the stats to you for now, I've seen you're pretty good at handling them!

If you are going to edit the program I suggest you edit the visual support for .txt files. Currently the \n command you are using is not detected by it. It's easyer to pull some quick manuel edits to it. The program is mostly overview to check & compair the current data available. I'm probally going to make some automated actions to generate some of the stats and than a readable \n command would speedup that process a little bit.

I haven't had much time to check all moves that are available in the games. But it seems it's very easy to detect some of the basics that are used like:

* Charge => Quick Attack (! their is a pokémon move name that is currently named Charge !)
** In fact Charge is in dragonball just a Rush Attack what basicly list all sort of quick attack similar moves like "Saiba Rush" for example.
* Taunt == Taunt
* Shapeshift ==> Transform
* etc...

Their are a lot of currently exisiting moves that would just need a small change or even a simple name-change to make them work.

This all said tho their is also a way to introduce basic moves that are learnable for most or some of the fighters like:

* Ki Attack: An simple special attack move with low base power that scales with the user current level. I would do the formula like this [basepower = 30 + (lv * 55%)]. Giving it a base power between 31 & 84. Most of the stage one fighters will have this attack but when they levelup it often get's overwritten by other more powerfull moves. The intressting part of this system is on max level this move actually can become rather usefull. It can be given a high attack priority and suddenly even stronger fighters would be able to make use of this attack.
* Flight: This seems very basic. A simple stat move that raises your speed by 1 stage. Since most of the fighters actually can fly this would be a very basicly early move for a lot of the fighters.
* etc...

------

As far the stats goes. I just find it intressting, I just having statistics again and the pokémon stats is very intressting data to come to some conclusions and gives me better insight why some pokémon are stronger than others as far durablity or other type of ballance goes. I haven't finished all the stat categories yet but I'm getting their. But even when having the base formula's. We still need to determ what fighters you want to make fast, slow, bulky, ... or fast, slow bulky, ... by their movepool. It's actually something that would be impossible to finish in just a demo.

Like you mentioned before the priority right now is to focus on a demo release. Would you mind sharing your ideas what kind of fighters and areas you are planning to introduce in the demo. I currently going from what I have seen from you so far and the map I shared with you:

-- Goku Village (dunno the exact name was somewhere) --
* Where you get your starter

UP: Saiyan Routes (Saibamen, Saiyans, etc...)
LEFT: Dessert Routes (Yamcha, road to fire moutain etc...)
RIGHT: Grandpa Gohan Routes (Sidequest General Blue, Pirate Bot, etc..., futher right also leads to korin tower and General Red what is actually on the other side of the map. But they are actually connected to eachother. It's just not done with the maps.)
DOWN (sea): Down was Master Roshi house and futher down their was the Training Island (probally best location for Kid Krillin and Kid Goku)

Note that their are actually events of saiyans after the dessert route so this is what I suggest:
- UP: Route 1 (saibamen and some other encounters, futher up blocked, maybe rival fight)
- Than you go to the dessert starting from Goku Village again (so LEFT)
- Fire Moutain, Pilaf Castle, etc... feels like Sidequest so that's where it start to become difficult.
- Theoreticly than you need to go back to Goku Village against and follow the Route 1 path up to a forest known as Oolong's path. This eventually ends up in a village and down futher Satan City.

My brain hurts, the issue right now seems that it will be difficult to let you encounter popular fighters. Krillin and Goku are over the sea, Yamcha is Yamcha (he's in the dessert actually) and who knows where to place the Namekians (spaceship in central city to namek still an option?), maybe place kid Piccolo in the wild somewhere but whe all known he's going to be dominating eventually. Than their is Chiaotzu. That feels like the Ralts guy in pokémon. But he has no evolutions and he's kinda a similar suicide bomb than the Saibamen. The question where to place Tien is intressting as well. Same goes for Kid Yurin that maybe can be an intressting early pick since her mind controle power isn't learned until her 2th stage. It would also be intressting to have this mechanic on some fighters early on like Yamcha, Tien, Chiaotzu mind controlled by Yurin would actually make them usefull. Who ever knewn Yamcha and usefull could be used in the same sentence.

Unless you add Yamcha (Reincarnated) from the spin-off manga offcourse. Their he also learn some new techniques like:

Flight, Ah! Lord Beerus!, Divination, Evil Containment Wave and Kiai. He doesn't seems to learn Flight for some reason. Only Future Yamcha and the Reincarnated form seem to have learned the ability. This said however their is not real reason to include these alternative forms. If Yamcha would train he would probally learn them as well.

Hope this helps. Can you list some of the fighters beside the starters that you want in the demo. Than I can make generating those stats a bigger priority.

Also with Saibamen and Chiaotzu that early in the game you can kinda use this as introduction of fusion. That would make it like:

--Route 1--
Saibamen (common)
Chiaotzu (uncommon)
???, Raditz maybe (rare, very rare), maybe Gine???

Rivial Fight:
- Chiaoman lv 3
- 'Starter> lv 5

Basicly that Rival could introduce you to EX fusion. And it will be a really hard rival fight since if I do the math right Chiaoman will have arround the 500 base stats. What is basicly like fighting a level 3 Charizard. Might be better to not let him learn selfdestruction yet. You could work with more than one Rival. Maybe one when you recieve it so your starter will be level 6. And after some wild encounters I guess he will be 7. You do need to stimulate catching fighters tho. So I think we need a 3th wild fighter their that is worth your time grinding for. Than the rival fight would probally go ok for most of them. Maybe even a 4th one since fighters are going to die for that victory.

The starters that the rivals use could be pulled out of the pool of starter fighters that are not offert to you when you recieve your starter. Maybe you can do it like this:
- Rival A: Takes one of the starting pool you have available. Could be the equal rival. The one with the one that always makes you angry when you face him.
- Rival B: Have a starter not available from your pool you had available (that could be the guy that introduces you to EX fusion). Could be a hard rival. The one that you are looking up to, the one that you want to become.
- Rival C: Have a starter not available from your pool, could be the easy rival. Basicly the guy/girl you need to safe all the time.

Well I brainstormed enouge for today. Good luck ;)

Edite:

One more thing. I never knew this but it looks like Goku's mother is finally revealed :O
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Gine
 
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LorisC

Nothing is real, everything is permitted!
203
Posts
6
Years
Yeah, I knew gine, she's already included.
There's also a fusion between her and Towa! Pretty interesting! Eheh

As I already said, I don't know which kind of problems you're having with /n, but it works perfectly for me!
Let's make a fast experiment!
if you go to View - > Actual Pokemon Entry, do you see a properly formatted Pokemon Entry with line breaks where they should be?
 
128
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  • Seen Dec 29, 2020
Yeah, I knew gine, she's already included.
There's also a fusion between her and Towa! Pretty interesting! Eheh

As I already said, I don't know which kind of problems you're having with /n, but it works perfectly for me!
Let's make a fast experiment!
if you go to View - > Actual Pokemon Entry, do you see a properly formatted Pokemon Entry with line breaks where they should be?



I actually found the reason why this is happening. The \n you used in the program is not visually supported by notepad. However all other versions like notepad++ for example have no problem with displaying it visually. So a rather easy fix is to let people known that notepad isn't fully supported for it and that they should use notepad++. I actually didn't realise it's supported by notepad++ since I have copied the data and editing it after converting it to an js object. That and having like 100 open projects running in notepad++ ^^

----

Tekka & Gine might be intressting fighters to include on the route 1. I think their design is intressting enouge for people to want to try them out. And they also seem to be limited to great ape and super saiyan and most of their power is utilised by fusion so they wouldn't be the powerhouses as far base stats goes.

Than we basicly have this so far:

Routes
Spoiler:


One other thing I want to mention and that's the evil organisation. Basicly the team rocket from dragonball. I like to mention them now because you probally want to include a sort of encounter of them in the demo. But their full story can be so much more:

R-R brainstorm
Spoiler:
 
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LorisC

Nothing is real, everything is permitted!
203
Posts
6
Years
Good! I'll take a look to see if I can do something for the regular notepad too, otherwise I'll do as you said.

Regarding the evil team, the Red Ribbon is definitely the perfect choice, but I was thinking to include more than 1 evil team, something like team magma and aqua.
The first one will be red ribbon, another one can be the Time breakers, but later in the game (and a lot more powerful than red ribbon!)

For the demo an encounter with RR will be enough!
 
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