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  #51    
Old 4 Days Ago (9:44 AM).
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    In case you DO want more insight, I'd recommend that you read this thread I made.

    https://forum.deviantart.com/community/politics/2453994/

    Again, all that I want is a world where everyone can live without fear...
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      #52    
    Old 4 Days Ago (10:22 AM). Edited 4 Days Ago by ShinyUmbreon189.
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by BronzeHeart92 View Post
      In case you DO want more insight, I'd recommend that you read this thread I made.

      https://forum.deviantart.com/community/politics/2453994/

      Again, all that I want is a world where everyone can live without fear...
      I'm not gonna waste my time on some biased opinion... You simply ignore the fact that a land of utopia is impossible to achieve.. Please, get that delusion out of your head. Muk's the way it is, cause those in power want it that way. There's no such thing as power to the people cause we're a "tool". You have no clue of what's going on. I shouldn't have to explain WHY this is to be to you.
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        #53    
      Old 4 Days Ago (10:28 AM). Edited 4 Days Ago by BronzeHeart92.
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
        I'm not gonna waste my time on some biased opinion... You simply ignore the fact that a land of utopia is impossible to achieve.. Please, get that delusion out of your head. Muk's the way it is, cause those in power want it that way. There's no such thing as power to the people cause we're a "tool". You have no clue of what's going on. I shouldn't have to explain WHY this is to be to you.
        Yeah, it's true an Utopia is something that simply doesn't exist. But is with our actions that achieve something that's near it. That said, you think Guns are a human rights? In an ideal world, the answer that that question would obviously be no. And I'd recommend that you at least give my thread a try. You sure you're not using Ad Hominem against me?
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          #54    
        Old 4 Days Ago (12:10 PM).
        LDSman LDSman is online now
           
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 View Post
          It's already kinda like that.. Not just humans.. It's animal instincts in general.. Just like animals humans have to prove their dominance to be a leader or "alpha male". Animals are violent. Humans are violent.. You're expecting us to live in a utopia which is clearly a fantasy world. Where there's good there's evil and vise versa. It's just the way it is. It's survival tactics. And the more "divided" the people grow, the more violence and heinous acts come into light.
          I disagree that is animal instincts or that people are inherently violent. Most people are decent people. If they weren't, the violence rate would be a lot higher.




          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Mana View Post
          Hmm, I see you saying this a lot about statistics, but then you post to a clearly bias source that has independently googled 10 shootings to make up some numbers for comparison. Meanwhile, the website for statistics I have linked is one giant global meta study. It seems to me you only like statistics that fit your point of view.
          I didn't say anything was wrong with your link. I said I dislike reducing the area to "western countries". It smacks of manipulating the data to get a predetermined outcome. "We want the US to be #1 in gun deaths so lets drop any country that is not *****."

          Quote:
          I'm happy to concede if you can present a reliable source - but that seems unlikely.
          Up to you. Person that made the study documented why he used the data in the study. Feel free to point out where's it wrong. Does it not make sense that if an armed person is able to fight back, that the person who is trying to kill others won't be able to kill as many?

          Quote:
          The number of documented civiliian-saviour shootings seems very small when you consider there have been 300+ mass shootings this year in the US, many with multiple casualties.
          There have not been 300+ mass shootings.


          Quote:
          Ah, I see your POV now. Media elite are covering it up and brainwashing us, basically?
          What? No. The media sensationalizes things to pull in viewers. If they can make a problem sound worse than it is, they can get more people to tune in.

          There's your problem. The GVA uses a different definition of "mass shooting" than the FBI. 4 gang members shoot each other and no one dies? Mass shooting. Teen drives around shooting pedestrians with a BB gun? Mass shooting. Homeowner shoots 4 burglars who broke into his house? Mass shooting.



          Quote:
          This isn't the media exaggerating these cases - they happened, they resulted in more deaths than the usual shooting. Your comment about Columbine School is interesting, do you know how many school shootings have happened since then? You think that past shootings are brought up to manipulate the public rather than serve as a tragic reminder?
          Yes. More viewers tuning in. I watched a media person out here try and get a random person on the street to express fear that the cops weren't doing enough to keep people safe after a lady was found dead in a motel.

          Media does a story on a drive-by. It'll be about how many people got hurt, how many people got hurt by gang violence and how people feel about it and then about how to keep your kids safe from drive bys. They may or may not mention that the people responsible are already in jail or that the gang violence is limited to one specific area of town or that the people that got shot were all suspected in the homicide of a different gang member. Its all about invoking fear and getting people to tune in for the special coverage tonight at 6 PM!!!
          Quote:
          Antimedia retort excuses the perpetrators and blames the people informing the public.
          They could inform the public in a less sensational manner. Too many people don't actually know that gun violence has been declining for the last 30 years. And it may drive people to commit mass shootings. "If I kill more people, the world will know my name! I can strike fear into all the people who shunned me!" The internet probably doesn't help with that either.

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by BronzeHeart92 View Post
          Yeah, it's true an Utopia is something that simply doesn't exist. But is with our actions that achieve something that's near it. That said, you think Guns are a human rights? In an ideal world, the answer that that question would obviously be no. And I'd recommend that you at least give my thread a try. You sure you're not using Ad Hominem against me?
          Not reading that. If anything is interesting, then post it here. In an ideal world, it wouldn't matter how many guns I had. No one is violent? Cool, I can have anything I want because there is no violence to worry about.
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            #55    
          Old 4 Days Ago (12:21 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by BronzeHeart92 View Post
            Yeah, it's true an Utopia is something that simply doesn't exist. But is with our actions that achieve something that's near it. That said, you think Guns are a human rights? In an ideal world, the answer that that question would obviously be no. And I'd recommend that you at least give my thread a try. You sure you're not using Ad Hominem against me?
            Okay... So how does a society do so with a biased media or source of news to divide it's people? Do you not realize people are biased due to something as simple enough as "needing something to believe in?" One's belief system is fueled by those in power. Those in power said "this" is how things are supposed to be and gained a following.. Sorta like religion.. Do you grasp the power those in power have?
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              #56    
            Old 1 Day Ago (4:46 AM).
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            I'm honestly tired of repeating this debate over and over. I've long since realised I'm probably never going to make anyone pro-gun see sense. So I might as well use this as a learning experience instead.

            So here's a legitimate question. What is it that makes America so special? Why is it that people in the US are so convinced that gun control will never work there when it has worked in literally every other first world country that has implemented it? Someone explain to me what makes the US so vastly different from similar nations.

            You can say it's the gangs, but there's gangs in the UK, Australia, Japan etc etc too. Plus, all of those guns started life off being made and sold by legal manufacturers. On top of that, which we can see from the Chicago situation, a lot of the guns used in gang crime are just bought across state lines from places with laxer laws. Surely having tighter restrictions across the board would thus reduce the number of weapons in the hands of gangs. I don't want to hear the hand-wave answer of "oh but criminals will always get and use guns" either, because while it's true that some criminals absolutely would still manage, there would still be a reduction. Not to mention the lack market is expensive because supply and demand is a thing.

            You can say that it's because of having such a large and diverse population. That argument actually doesn't look half bad at first... until you start breaking things down more. Australia, the UK, Canada and, hell, technically even the EU countries all have ethnically diverse populations too. You can say it's because they have smaller populations, but a lot of them have similar population density (obviously not Australia but I'm getting to that). Then there's also the fact that this assumption that population = more gun crime breaks down entirely if you start looking at individual cities. NYC is the largest city with the biggest and most diverse population in the Western hemisphere, but it's got less gun crime than St. Louis, New Orleans, Detroit, Baltimore and a bucketload of other places and coincidentally better gun control than almost everywhere it beats. Internationally, Sydney and Melbourne all have considerably higher populations than every US city bar NYC, less gun crime and also better gun control. Tokyo has a larger population and population density by far compared to US cities, but less gun crime and also coincidentally better gun control.

            Because of how prevalent your gun culture is? I can agree that if anything this would be the biggest factor but, let's be realistic for a moment. Nobody is going to start a civil war over gun control. I don't even think people would go to that length for an actual ban and that's not what we're talking about here - at the very least nobody in their right mind is. The simple fact is that anyone who even tried to rise up against the government for enacting gun control would not only be a very good example of the kind of people who shouldn't have guns to begin with but would just flat out lose. A handful of crazy people might actually be stupid enough to try but there wouldn't be any movement catching on.

            I'm not trying to change minds here anymore, I have well and truly given up on that. What I want right now is to at the very least try to understand why, despite all of this, you on the the pro-gun side believe that having better gun control would not work in the US.

            Or is it not about whether it would work or not? Is it a question of the personal freedom of being able to carry a weapon outweighing the societal affects of easy access to weaponry? Or a question of fear of the government potentially altering the constitutional amendments (nevermind that they're called amendments for a reason) outweighing the positives?

            I just want to understand why.
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              #57    
            Old 1 Day Ago (8:29 AM).
            LDSman LDSman is online now
               
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              I found this to be interesting.

              https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/08/media-contagion.aspx

              It seems the media coverage does influence mass shootings.
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