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Old 1 Week Ago (5:59 AM).
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Very short summary of what happened:
Huawei CFO is arrested in Canada (because the US asked them to) due to alleged fraud case regarding sales in Iran. She's out now on a $10 million bail, but detained (I think).

Links to the thing:
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/06/tech/what-is-huawei/index.html

Thoughts?
Is your trust in Huawei broken (or was it never there in the first place)?
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Old 1 Week Ago (6:04 AM).
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I don't think it's going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the US and China, but this isn't a good thing by any means and could definitely stress some already tense relations between the two companies. Evidently, going by that article, things are already getting tense.

I'd like to know more about exactly what violations were apparently being covered up in Iran though.
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Old 1 Week Ago (5:59 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
I'd like to know more about exactly what violations were apparently being covered up in Iran though.
Yeah I'd like to know that too. The article just mentions that Huawei supposedly said that one of their subsidiaries was a separate company, but says literally nothing else about the sanctions violations, or even how that is a violation of sanctions on Iran (I know nothing about the sanctions on Iran).

Also want to hear more about the apparent "security risks" Huawei devices have.
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Old 1 Week Ago (4:00 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Kitty.
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From what I know of it, theres rumors that Huawei has been doing sales with Iran while fully knowing that said country is embargoed when they're doing business with the US.

Also security risks!! I can't link to a proper source yet but as a government sponsored company (big pros - you can make your phones really good and really cheap), Huawei is said to send copies of your data and personal information to the Chinese government periodically (and that is why selling of Huawei phones is banned in the US). It's personally why I hesitate on buying their phones even though it's so good ahaha


Edit:

https://www.cnet.com/news/why-some-of-the-flashiest-huawei-android-p20-p20-pro-mate-10-pro-phones-arent-in-the-us/

Quote:
It's all about national security. The US government has expressed concern that Huawei might be spying on us through its products, specifically its telecommunications equipment. In 2012, a House Intelligence Committee report detailed concerns that both Huawei and ZTE, a fellow Chinese vendor, pose a threat to national security. US companies were banned from buying Huawei equipment.
Second edit:

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2018/12/countries-banning-huawei-181206130850129.html

Quote:
Over the past couple of years, Huawei has reportedly circumvented sanctions imposed on North Korea and Iran, providing the countries with telecom equipment that can be used for extensive spying on populations, so-called dual use technologies.
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Old 1 Week Ago (4:09 PM).
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Okay well, if China/Huawei really did violate an embargo in that matter, it could potentially mean sanctions against them and also Iran which could be an economic clusterpsyduck for everyone.

The security concerns is also a bit of a worry since who knows what kind of information the Chinese government could potentially be getting their hands on and using for their own purposes. In the past this wouldn't be quite as alarming since we all know everyone is spying on everyone anyway but given recent political moves in China, it's cause for concern.
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Old 1 Week Ago (4:39 PM).
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What recent political moves :0
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Old 1 Week Ago (4:41 PM).
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What recent political moves :0
Flexing, to put it simply. Increasing military might, more power held by the president and upping presence in disputed areas.
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Old 1 Week Ago (7:19 PM).
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    The Chinese government has also been detaining Canadian nationals on the apparent grounds of "risks to national security" as a blatant retaliation to this occurrence. Justin Trudeau has obviously called for the release of the Canadian nationals and very rightly labelled their detainment as arbitrary.

    Because of Trudeau's very justified reaction to China throwing its toys out of the pram the Chinese Ambassador to Canada, Lu Shaye, has claimed that this reaction is because of white supremacy! Claiming that Canada feels that Chinese people do not deserve to be treated with dignity. Even though Lu himself basically admits in a comment that this was done as a retaliation:

    "I have recently heard a word repeatedly pronounced by some Canadians: bullying. They said that by arresting two Canadian citizens as retaliation for Canada’s detention of Meng, China was bullying Canada. To those people, China’s self-defense is an offense to Canada. If someone slaps you on your left cheek, give him your right cheek, they told us. But I have never seen them doing as they said."

    Beijing even recently accused Sweden of human rights violations (Beijing accused Sweden of human rights violations (!) ). A family of Chinese tourists were apparently mishandled by the Swedish police and hostel staff (they weren't and the tourists are abominable people; the video-graphic proof is out there). But of course because it's Chinese nationals Beijing demands an apology from Sweden no matter how the tourists behaved.

    The lack of self awareness regarding how Chinese people/officials feel about how nationals of other countries should respect China and the 'Chinese way'...yet China apparently has no obligation to return the favour is astounding.
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    Old 1 Week Ago (12:36 AM).
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      imagine being a Chinese national and facing arrest because a different country put one fo their world famous embargos ™ on another country and you sold stuff to them.

      America, the country that praises the free market is arresting someone from another country for practicing capitalism. Excellent, very good
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      Old 1 Week Ago (12:45 AM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Hands View Post
      imagine being a Chinese national and facing arrest because a different country put one fo their world famous embargos ™ on another country and you sold stuff to them.

      America, the country that praises the free market is arresting someone from another country for practicing capitalism. Excellent, very good
      In fairness, China are (from the sounds of it), violating a UN-sanctioned embargo here. Then there's also the matter of potential security risk combined with China's recent power moves. I don't doubt that the US isn't totally faultless but I don't think you can really say without any doubt that China is blameless.
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      Old 1 Week Ago (1:11 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Yue Han.
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Hands View Post
        imagine being a Chinese national and facing arrest because a different country put one fo their world famous embargos ™ on another country and you sold stuff to them.

        America, the country that praises the free market is arresting someone from another country for practicing capitalism. Excellent, very good
        Oh the United States is the most self righteous entitled nation there is but by now I'd assume everyone takes that as a given. My criticism of the way China handles these kinds of things is in no way a defence of the United States; showing yet again how it feels it has a god given right to police the world.
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        Old 1 Week Ago (3:51 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by KetsuekiR.
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Hands View Post
        imagine being a Chinese national and facing arrest because a different country put one fo their world famous embargos ™ on another country and you sold stuff to them.

        America, the country that praises the free market is arresting someone from another country for practicing capitalism. Excellent, very good
        I think this criticism is unfair in this specific case. It wasn't a case of the US trying to tell Huawei where it can and cannot sell its own products. The sanction applies to US-made components and Huawei was well aware of this, and seemingly used a front (Skycom Tech) to circumvent the sanction. This is what the CFO is detained for and is what is being investigated.

        ----------------------------

        https://www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-security/poland-arrests-two-over-spying-allegations-including-huawei-employee-idUSKCN1P50RN

        This just happened a few hours ago and while the company isn't confirmed to be directly involved, it doesn't come at the best of times.
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        Old 6 Days Ago (12:05 AM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
          In fairness, China are (from the sounds of it), violating a UN-sanctioned embargo here. Then there's also the matter of potential security risk combined with China's recent power moves. I don't doubt that the US isn't totally faultless but I don't think you can really say without any doubt that China is blameless.
          Private business =/= Chinese state. If she was from Viacom or something she would not face any of this. This is indirectly part of Trump's trade war.


          Quote:
          Originally Posted by KetsuekiR View Post
          I think this criticism is unfair in this specific case. It wasn't a case of the US trying to tell Huawei where it can and cannot sell its own products. The sanction applies to US-made components and Huawei was well aware of this, and seemingly used a front (Skycom Tech) to circumvent the sanction. This is what the CFO is detained for and is what is being investigated.

          ----------------------------

          https://www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-security/poland-arrests-two-over-spying-allegations-including-huawei-employee-idUSKCN1P50RN

          This just happened a few hours ago and while the company isn't confirmed to be directly involved, it doesn't come at the best of times.
          None of that changes the fact that she has been detained over her company (private enterprise) selling phones (free market) to another country (Capitalism 101). America sells guns to dictators and war criminals via their state dept and that's fine. Huawei sells phones to Iran and its high treason.
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          Old 6 Days Ago (3:00 AM). Edited 6 Days Ago by gimmepie.
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Hands View Post
          Snip
          Lines between private business and government are pretty blurry in China. It's required by law that private businesses basically assist the government with whatever they ask and nobody knows anything about Huawei's ownership structure.

          I'm not going to try and defend the US' numerous unlawful, unjust or just plain unsavoury actions because you're not wrong that those things are messed up and shouldn't be allowed without repercussions. I don't think the US' past crimes necessarily immediately invalidate the notion of wrongdoing here on the part of China/Huawei.

          We don't live in a free market. Free market these days is just a conservative buzzword to justify heavy privatisation and minimalist restrictions, but the rules and restrictions are still there. If Huawei/China violated an internationally recognised sanction imposed in Iran then an international law was broken and it stands to reason that their should be repercussions.

          Again, this is ignoring concerns over spying which I can't comment much on because there's less information to go off of there.
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          Old 5 Days Ago (8:34 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Hands View Post
          None of that changes the fact that she has been detained over her company (private enterprise) selling phones (free market) to another country (Capitalism 101). America sells guns to dictators and war criminals via their state dept and that's fine. Huawei sells phones to Iran and its high treason.
          On top of agreeing with GimmePie's points, again, the sanction applies to US components. Huawei is free to sell their own stuff at their leisure, but US-based companies are allowed to, at their government's request, put conditions on what is done with their products and how they are resold. The market isn't, and shouldn't be, completely free.
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          Old 5 Days Ago (12:56 AM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
            Again, this is ignoring concerns over spying which I can't comment much on because there's less information to go off of there.
            Facebook, Twitter, Google etc all help spy on you and everyone else who uses them. It's really a non-point to berate a company for apparently helping espionage by this stage in the American dream.

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by KetsuekiR View Post
            On top of agreeing with GimmePie's points, again, the sanction applies to US components. Huawei is free to sell their own stuff at their leisure, but US-based companies are allowed to, at their government's request, put conditions on what is done with their products and how they are resold. The market isn't, and shouldn't be, completely free.
            So then you're admitting that Capitalism is completely unrealistic as a system? Imagine if Iran arrested an employee of Apple for "espionage". It'd cause global outrage.
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            Old 4 Days Ago (9:10 PM).
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            So then you're admitting that Capitalism is completely unrealistic as a system? Imagine if Iran arrested an employee of Apple for "espionage". It'd cause global outrage.
            That's a strange strawman. I don't advocate for completely unregulated capitalism. That isn't the same as "admitting Capitalism is completely unrealistic".

            This isn't a new sanction either. Huawei was well aware of it and circumvented it, as evidence suggests, on purpose. It's not like the US arrested her and went, "Surprise, we think we don't like you selling things to Iran". It was, "You knew we had conditions on components we sold to you but you violated them anyway". There's obviously a difference.
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            Old 4 Days Ago (4:03 AM).
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            I was saying Boo-urns
               
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by KetsuekiR View Post
              That's a strange strawman. I don't advocate for completely unregulated capitalism. That isn't the same as "admitting Capitalism is completely unrealistic".

              This isn't a new sanction either. Huawei was well aware of it and circumvented it, as evidence suggests, on purpose. It's not like the US arrested her and went, "Surprise, we think we don't like you selling things to Iran". It was, "You knew we had conditions on components we sold to you but you violated them anyway". There's obviously a difference.
              Capitalism by its very nature cannot be regulated.

              If I bought a gameboy and sold it to someone in the DPRK, would Nintendo retain the right to push for legal action against me despite ownership of the item transferring to me via purchase?
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              Old 4 Days Ago (5:13 AM). Edited 4 Days Ago by KetsuekiR.
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Hands View Post
              Capitalism by its very nature cannot be regulated.
              So... what is the system in the US where a capitalist system exists but there are regulations imposed by the government? You're thinking of a Laissez-faire capitalist system. It isn't the only option.

              Quote:
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              If I bought a gameboy and sold it to someone in the DPRK, would Nintendo retain the right to push for legal action against me despite ownership of the item transferring to me via purchase?
              If Nintendo had put a condition upon purchase that you weren't allowed to sell it to someone in the DPRK and you agreed to that condition, yes. This is exactly what's happening here with Huawei. There were conditions put on these items that Huawei were not just aware of, but agreed to, and then purposefully circumvented them.

              EDIT: "But isn't that defeating the point of a free market?" - no, sellers are free to add clauses to items they sell. The customer isn't forced to purchase things, and if they disagree or don't want to/plan to abide by the conditions, are free to take their money elsewhere.
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