Deep Discussion Have a seat at Deep Discussion for in-depth discussions, extended or serious conversations, and current events. From world news to talks on life, growing up, relationships, and issues in society, this is the place to be. Come be a knight.

Ad Content
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #76   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old October 25th, 2018 (8:40 AM). Edited October 25th, 2018 by ruby.
ruby's Avatar
ruby ruby is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixIgnition View Post
Those are some strong assumptions about how educated and/or intolerant people here are.
>proceeds to barf uneducated and intolerant nonsense
  #77   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old October 25th, 2018 (8:51 AM).
Lycanthropy's Avatar
Lycanthropy Lycanthropy is offline
Owl + Bear =
Owlbear
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: That place called... Wait, what was it called again?
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Quirky
Posts: 10,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by strangerhypno View Post
I recognize the terms from organic chemistry, cis vs trans isomers and all that. I never knew it applied to straight people
Same. I had heard of trans and chemistry was exactly the reason why I could guess what cis meant.


That aside, I still don't get why people have the urge to put labels on everything.
__________________
..
..
..
..
..
..
  #78   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old October 25th, 2018 (9:03 AM).
gimmepie's Avatar
gimmepie gimmepie is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Australia
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 18,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanthropy View Post
That aside, I still don't get why people have the urge to put labels on everything.
I imagine because it would be a pain in the ass to constantly explain concepts as complicated as sex vs gender in full detail every time you wanted to reference them.
__________________
  #79   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old October 25th, 2018 (9:07 AM).
Marth's Avatar
Marth Marth is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Canada
Age: 28
Nature: Timid
Posts: 15,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixIgnition View Post
Those are some strong assumptions about how educated and/or intolerant people here are.
You then proceed to prove my point with your comments.
You are transphobic, I suggest you take my advice.
__________________


The sky is falling, seal the borders, heighten the anxiety
A steady diet of hysteria shapes history
  #80   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old October 25th, 2018 (9:38 AM). Edited October 25th, 2018 by Pemderp.
Pemderp's Avatar
Pemderp Pemderp is offline
Cosmog Enthusiast
     
    Join Date: Oct 2018
    Location: Oregon
    Age: 16
    Gender: Male
    Nature: Quiet
    Posts: 101
    Oof. I revived this thread and woke up to this. For anyone reading this, I am not trying to be transphobic or intolerant. I have nothing against trans people as a collective and never will. They are people just like the rest of us.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    I wish people here would take more time to educate themselves because everyone in this thread sounds so intolerant of even learning about trans people.
    I’m sorry if my post came across as intolerant. That was never my intention. While there are some people who have trolled on here, painting everyone under one brush is just as hateful. From personal experience, it’s easier to get others to agree with you politically if you’re as respectful as you want people to be with your ideas.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PhoenixIgnition View Post
    A trans will never be the sex they try to, or succeed to resemble.
    The only time when the 'trans' part is not necessary is when a trans person 'passes' fully as the other sex in society, resemblance-wise, which is pretty damn rare as far as I know. Especially MTFs.
    A lot of people who take sex reassignment surgeries do look like the sex they want to be. It’s quite impressive what some surgeons can do. Have you seen any?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by colours View Post
    I encourage you to educate yourself by even spending as much as five minutes on transgender reddit as that would enough to prove this statement incorrect. Transgender men/women are as legitimate as real men/women. Do not invalidate them.

    I don't understand what separates a cis woman from a transgender woman? Or a transgender male from a cis male?
    While I don’t entirely disagree with you, relying on some subreddits for information on a sensitive subject seems like a bad idea. There could be things that are fabricated or heavily biased to one person’s idea.

    I never really understood the whole validation thing. People in the Autistic community like myself are treated similarly by intolerant people and I’ve never heard anything about validation (the validation for the autistic community would probably be that we’re not all retards). I can’t count how many times people have called me gross or an idiot for my autistic traits. What I learnt was that it was the fault of the people saying it and not society at large. Even if I’m not validated by every person in the the world, I can still validate myself. I wish more people would consider that.
    __________________

    Name: Lucky
    Adopt one yourself! @Pokémon Orphanage
      #81   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
    Old October 25th, 2018 (9:50 AM). Edited October 25th, 2018 by colours.
    colours's Avatar
    colours colours is online now
    wandererjustlikeme 🌺
     
    Join Date: Apr 2005
    Location: in an eternal dream
    Gender: Female
    Nature: Jolly
    Posts: 2,961
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pemderp View Post
    While I don’t entirely disagree with you, relying on Reddit for information on a sensitive subject seems like a bad idea. There could be things that are fabricated or heavily biased to one person’s idea.
    I'd say it depends on the subject. Simultaneously it could be wrong to slander reddit based on the assumption that it's reddit and because it's reddit there's no possible way it could be used as any sort of point.

    My sentence in particular was referring more to r/transtimelines and how it shows actual legitimate transgender people going through HRT to look exactly like the gender they want to identify as.

    Quote:
    gender they are while the former doesn’t. Cis people don’t have to legally change their gender or transition through surgeical means. Trans women and trans men are still women and men, they just have to do more to be recognized as who they are.
    You're misunderstanding my point, here. Cis women and Trans women are both women. Cis men and Transgender men are both men. That was my point. I wasn't looking for a technical definition, as i am WELL enough aware of that.
      #82   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
    Old October 25th, 2018 (10:00 AM).
    Pemderp's Avatar
    Pemderp Pemderp is offline
    Cosmog Enthusiast
       
      Join Date: Oct 2018
      Location: Oregon
      Age: 16
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Quiet
      Posts: 101
      @colours Sorry for adding a definition you already knew about at the end. I wasn’t sure if you knew. I also wasn’t trying to slander all of Reddit. Trans timelines is a great place to see the differences in trans people. I was more referring to places like r/traa that aren’t as fact based and more focused on memes. Sorry for the confusion.
      __________________

      Name: Lucky
      Adopt one yourself! @Pokémon Orphanage
        #83   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
      Old October 25th, 2018 (10:06 AM).
      Lycanthropy's Avatar
      Lycanthropy Lycanthropy is offline
      Owl + Bear =
      Owlbear
       
      Join Date: Jan 2014
      Location: That place called... Wait, what was it called again?
      Age: 22
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Quirky
      Posts: 10,413
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
      I imagine because it would be a pain in the ass to constantly explain concepts as complicated as sex vs gender in full detail every time you wanted to reference them.
      Yeah, people just want something "easy" to refer to. Actually I know that. I just wish people didn't do it though.

      Putting different names on different identities only stresses some people are different than others. In my opinion, it's much easier to throw all these words out of the window and just respect everyone as they are. But hey, maybe that's just me.
      __________________
      ..
      ..
      ..
      ..
      ..
      ..
        #84   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
      Old October 25th, 2018 (10:11 AM). Edited October 25th, 2018 by Palamon.
      Palamon's Avatar
      Palamon Palamon is offline
      Radiant Dragon Fang!
       
      Join Date: Feb 2009
      Location: Milaturia.
      Age: 22
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Lonely
      Posts: 4,234
      Sigh. You know, I get kind of annoyed when people don't try to educate themselves about gender identity. I really wish transphobia wasn't still a thing, but it is. Trans women are still women, and trans men are still men, regardless of whether they transition or not, they're still valid. Gender =/= sex. All gender identities are valid.

      I'll use myself as an example. I identify as trans masculine. I want to be perceived as masculine. But I don't want to change my body using HRT or assignment surgery. Just really small changes to my body to make me appear more masculine/male (or gender neutral, if we wanna get technical). That doesn't make me less valid than other people who are trans and do want surgery/hrt.

      I could really go on a tangent, but I'm a little tired. I might update this or delete my post, who knows.

      This post isn't directly at anyone, by the way.
      __________________
      Theme: Flynn Scifo
      Pair: Jonghyun
        #85   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
      Old October 25th, 2018 (10:31 AM).
      Marth's Avatar
      Marth Marth is offline
       
      Join Date: Jun 2013
      Location: Canada
      Age: 28
      Nature: Timid
      Posts: 15,291
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Pemderp View Post

      I’m sorry if my post came across as intolerant. That was never my intention. While there are some people who have trolled on here, painting everyone under one brush is just as hateful. From personal experience, it’s easier to get others to agree with you politically if you’re as respectful as you want people to be with your ideas.
      I'm not required to be nice when lgbt people are killed, disowned, beaten, fired, denied services and over all hated for our identities.
      __________________


      The sky is falling, seal the borders, heighten the anxiety
      A steady diet of hysteria shapes history
        #86   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
      Old October 25th, 2018 (10:38 AM).
      gimmepie's Avatar
      gimmepie gimmepie is offline
       
      Join Date: May 2012
      Location: Australia
      Age: 23
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Adamant
      Posts: 18,763
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Raven View Post
      I'm not required to be nice when lgbt people are killed, disowned, beaten, fired, denied services and over all hated for our identities.

      Actually, you are.
      This is my reminder to everyone in this thread to remember to be respectful regardless of how your opinions differ.
      __________________
        #87   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
      Old October 25th, 2018 (10:48 AM).
      Marth's Avatar
      Marth Marth is offline
       
      Join Date: Jun 2013
      Location: Canada
      Age: 28
      Nature: Timid
      Posts: 15,291
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
      Actually, you are.
      This is my reminder to everyone in this thread to remember to be respectful regardless of how your opinions differ.
      But people shouldn't invalidate trans people and say our identities aren't really real? It's very hurtful.
      Saying "a trans man isn't really a man" is horrible and shouldn't even be an "opinion"
      __________________


      The sky is falling, seal the borders, heighten the anxiety
      A steady diet of hysteria shapes history
        #88   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
      Old October 25th, 2018 (10:49 AM). Edited October 25th, 2018 by Pemderp.
      Pemderp's Avatar
      Pemderp Pemderp is offline
      Cosmog Enthusiast
         
        Join Date: Oct 2018
        Location: Oregon
        Age: 16
        Gender: Male
        Nature: Quiet
        Posts: 101
        @Raven Yeah you do. This is a section of the website where being respectful is required. “Be respectful: You are entitled to whatever beliefs you might held, but other people are also entitled to their own. You can challenge someone’s opinions, but you do not have the right to launch personal attacks based on a disagreement. Yes, even in debate threads. Trolling is not tolerated.” I might not be a mod, but it is required to follow this site’s rules. How do you expect people to agree with you if you’re going to be rude? (Sorry for the original version of this post. I got upset.)
        __________________

        Name: Lucky
        Adopt one yourself! @Pokémon Orphanage
          #89   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
        Old October 25th, 2018 (10:53 AM).
        hoshiko's Avatar
        hoshiko hoshiko is offline
        PC's jacksepticeye enthusiast
           
          Join Date: Apr 2010
          Location: deep south
          Age: 21
          Gender: Other
          Nature: Gentle
          Posts: 1,803
          trans men are men, trans women are women regardless of whether they transition or not.

          i am nonbinary so i fall under the umbrella of trans technically and i'm slowly kind of opening up my mind to that. it's taking some getting used to

          but like can we all be respectful of other people's opinions? also, please don't be transphobic. especially not with what's happening lately.
          __________________
          "POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE"
          they/them ★ pashminatumblr
            #90   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
          Old October 25th, 2018 (10:57 AM).
          Pemderp's Avatar
          Pemderp Pemderp is offline
          Cosmog Enthusiast
             
            Join Date: Oct 2018
            Location: Oregon
            Age: 16
            Gender: Male
            Nature: Quiet
            Posts: 101
            @Hoshiko Thank you. We should be respectful for our opinions. Even if it’s a sensitive subject.
            __________________

            Name: Lucky
            Adopt one yourself! @Pokémon Orphanage
              #91   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
            Old October 25th, 2018 (11:00 AM).
            Marth's Avatar
            Marth Marth is offline
             
            Join Date: Jun 2013
            Location: Canada
            Age: 28
            Nature: Timid
            Posts: 15,291
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Pemderp View Post
            How do you expect people to agree with you if you’re going to be rude?
            Because an alarming majority of people either online or off are hateful of lgbt by default, and being nice to them will not change it. You should agree with me by default because I'm saying that trans people are their gender.

            I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that you should just treat people with decency regardless of their gender identity. Saying things like "oh you're not really a man if you're trans" is hurtful, why do people expect someone they're hurting to be placid about it?
            __________________


            The sky is falling, seal the borders, heighten the anxiety
            A steady diet of hysteria shapes history
              #92   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
            Old October 25th, 2018 (11:05 AM).
            gimmepie's Avatar
            gimmepie gimmepie is offline
             
            Join Date: May 2012
            Location: Australia
            Age: 23
            Gender: Male
            Nature: Adamant
            Posts: 18,763
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Raven View Post
            I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that you should just treat people with decency regardless of their gender identity. Saying things like "oh you're not really a man if you're trans" is hurtful, why do people expect someone they're hurting to be placid about it?
            You can fight for your beliefs without resorting to personal attacks or being needlessly mean. It's not the same as being placid and it's going to help your case a lot more than ad hominem.
            __________________
              #93   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
            Old October 25th, 2018 (11:07 AM).
            Pemderp's Avatar
            Pemderp Pemderp is offline
            Cosmog Enthusiast
               
              Join Date: Oct 2018
              Location: Oregon
              Age: 16
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Quiet
              Posts: 101
              @Raven Thank you for clearing that up. Of course you can upset about it. I am too. It’s horrible that there are people out there that will treat you poorly for being trans. It’s inhumane and has no place in our modern world. I just don’t think being nasty will fix anything. It’s what people like that want.
              __________________

              Name: Lucky
              Adopt one yourself! @Pokémon Orphanage
                #94   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
              Old October 25th, 2018 (11:11 AM). Edited October 25th, 2018 by ruby.
              ruby's Avatar
              ruby ruby is offline
               
              Join Date: Mar 2004
              Age: 26
              Gender: Female
              Posts: 1,379
              PhoenixIgnition's 'opinions' are inherently disrespectful
                #95   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
              Old October 25th, 2018 (11:15 AM).
              Marth's Avatar
              Marth Marth is offline
               
              Join Date: Jun 2013
              Location: Canada
              Age: 28
              Nature: Timid
              Posts: 15,291
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
              You can fight for your beliefs without resorting to personal attacks or being needlessly mean. It's not the same as being placid and it's going to help your case a lot more than ad hominem.
              I don't see how telling someone they're being transphobic is mean?
              __________________


              The sky is falling, seal the borders, heighten the anxiety
              A steady diet of hysteria shapes history
                #96   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
              Old October 25th, 2018 (11:20 AM). Edited October 25th, 2018 by ruby.
              ruby's Avatar
              ruby ruby is offline
               
              Join Date: Mar 2004
              Age: 26
              Gender: Female
              Posts: 1,379
              this thread was never about debating the legitimacy of trans people and platforming this, especially in the current climate, is tantamount to it
                #97   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
              Old October 25th, 2018 (11:25 AM).
              adventure's Avatar
              adventure adventure is online now
               
              Join Date: Nov 2007
              Location: T.A.R.D.I.S.
              Nature: Naive
              Posts: 31,330
              I think Dawn's post from earlier is underrated.

              So many people nowadays demand to be called a certain gender. I have come to understand that it makes some feel better to have a label to define themselves by like that. I won't stop them.

              But I wish that we lived in a world where somebody could call me a woman without attaching any expectations of what I'm supposed to look like or behave like to that. It's just my biology, but maybe I act super masculine and like girls? Doesn't make me a man. A man who wears make-up and dresses shouldn't be shunned or have to be called a woman in order to be validated as a person.

              The more I mention this view of mine though, the more I find it seems like I care unusually little about gender compared to many others online. Some people born as male really do feel like they don't fit with their body, even if I can't fully seem to understand it, and while many don't choose to transition, they still obviously feel better being called woman instead of man (and vice versa). I haven't read enough peer-reviewed papers on the subject to give an educated guess on whether this is a truly biological phenomena that happens in mammals or apes or other animals, or if it is more likely a product of our confined society putting such unfair expectations and different social roles on our two sexes despite having such a modern society where it is mostly not needed anymore.
                #98   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
              Old October 25th, 2018 (11:25 AM).
              Marth's Avatar
              Marth Marth is offline
               
              Join Date: Jun 2013
              Location: Canada
              Age: 28
              Nature: Timid
              Posts: 15,291
              BUT THEN AGAIN it's hard to tell what people are feeling online so if I did upset anyone I am genuinely sorry.
              It's just that, as a nonbinary person, these issues hit home and I've been a victim of hate/threats/etc against me for my identity.
              __________________


              The sky is falling, seal the borders, heighten the anxiety
              A steady diet of hysteria shapes history
                #99   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
              Old October 25th, 2018 (11:26 AM).
              Juno's Avatar
              Juno Juno is offline
              when the party's over
               
              Join Date: Nov 2013
              Location: Canadia
              Age: 24
              Gender: Female
              Posts: 3,927
              Another thing to keep in mind is trans acceptance is a relatively new concept for a lot of people. While this is not an excuse or good reason to be ignorant or hateful, it is a tough topic to understand, especially for people who do not experience gender dysphoria or non-binary identities.

              Alot of "ignorance" does not come from a place of hate, but of genuine confusion - some things that might seem "obvious" to you is not going to be obvious to cis people or people who aren't going through the same stuff as you. I see a lot of people here whom I perceive as just trying to understand, or have an open dialogue, who are shut down as "ignorant" or "hateful" when they are simply asking questions because they don't understand, or they want to clarify some things.

              This is a pretty new/foreign concept to many people, and instead of closing the dialogue as "ugh you're ignorant please educate yourself" you can use this opportunity to help people understand if you/they so desire, in a respectful manner, or just have a conversation. Asking questions and sharing what they think is not necessarily transphobic, especially if they are not being particularly rude or hateful.
              __________________
              video games
                #100   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
              Old October 25th, 2018 (11:29 AM).
              adventure's Avatar
              adventure adventure is online now
               
              Join Date: Nov 2007
              Location: T.A.R.D.I.S.
              Nature: Naive
              Posts: 31,330
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by ruby View Post
              this thread was never about debating the legitimacy of trans people and platforming this, especially in the current climate, is tantamount to it
              Oh, true... i feel like this was originally made in the Off-Topic forum o: In DD, it's commonplace to discuss any topic brought up, more. I think.
              Closed Thread

              Quick Reply

              Join the conversation!

              Create an account to post a reply in this thread, participate in other discussions, and more!

              Create a PokéCommunity Account
              Ad Content
              Thread Tools

              Posting Rules
              You may not post new threads
              You may not post replies
              You may not post attachments
              You may not edit your posts

              BB code is On
              Smilies are On
              [IMG] code is On
              HTML code is Off
              Minimum Characters Per Post: 25

              Forum Jump


              All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:29 PM.