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View Poll Results: Should Ash have won the Kalos league?
Yes 6 46.15%
No 7 53.85%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26    
Old August 13th, 2018 (1:18 PM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hirokimura View Post
    Well, the fact that ash loses isn't something, but losing for a spin off character that's only built around fanservice (Stereotypical looks, mega zard X, almost always win, quite edgy side) is something else. I mean c'mon, Alain was a spin off character who magically did jump in the XYZ series and rekted everything like this was childplay.
    Unlike any other series, XYZ was the one we could see lot of trainers developing, like the trio with the kanto starters (tierno and the others) and that mega sceptile guy for example, but no. Let's just put a random character that wins everything and that's all.

    Tobias kinda had the same issue, but still, Ash wasn't that experienced and more, they were not as many trainers with evolution through the arc, so it kinda feels okay to make a random win.

    Magically jumped into? Did you even watch the show or even the specials for that matter? I hope you realize the reason Alain even entered the league was because of ASH requesting him to join. Magically jumping in is Tobias, Alain was an actual known character, so I don't know what you're talking about.
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      #27    
    Old August 13th, 2018 (1:48 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Sloxy View Post
      Magically jumped into? Did you even watch the show or even the specials for that matter? I hope you realize the reason Alain even entered the league was because of ASH requesting him to join. Magically jumping in is Tobias, Alain was an actual known character, so I don't know what you're talking about.
      That's not because we did see Alain in 3-4 episodes in mega evolution + 5-6 episodes from XYZ that makes it something else a random character. No character developement while there was plenty rivals through the whole show that could fulfill the winner role.
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        #28    
      Old August 13th, 2018 (3:49 PM).
      weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
         
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by hirokimura View Post
        It's the leader's surskit, that one with the camera, I forgot her name :3 But well, even a well trained surskit wouldn't be as powerful as a latios (and one from the sinnoh league)
        To be fair, I agree for Hoenn. Not for Kanto and Johto where he had lot of challenges like Whitney (MILTANK <3), Lt Surge (That was a pretty nice fight with lot of chara developement for pikachu),

        Well, Ash was less experienced in Sinnoh than he was in Kalos, that's a fact, and indeed, In my opinion he has to actually win a league. But I guess that's why the whole concept of badges was actually banned from the anime/video game. Just because Ash can't win because of plot. I'm really frustrated about that.
        I agree regarding Kanto and Johto, those gym fights WERE the best out there. At least there, the gym leaders actually WERE as skilled as their reputation claimed, and didn't either come across as incompetent or only came across as skilled at Ash's expense (Kalos was the closest it ever got since AG came about to Gym Leaders actually having their honor restored until the Kanto reunion arc).

        And yeah, that got me irritated as well. It's funny, banning badges from S&M would have been a perfect excuse to actually LET Ash win a league, yet they don't do that. Heck, they don't even give him a consolation prize of actually helping build the Alola league.
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          #29    
        Old August 14th, 2018 (6:06 PM).
        CodeHelmet CodeHelmet is offline
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          Just wanted to mention that its Viola with the Surskit. Also Alain had 4 Mega Evolution specials plus two Episodes involving him in some manner(be it battling Ash or him obtaining Badges to face Ash in Kalos League). Trevor, Tierno and Shauna had the Summer Camp(4 Episodes) with Tierno returning at least twice, Trevor at least once(forget if he returned more than that) and Shauna several times(Episode 47 where Serena catches Pancham and her first Showcase in Episode 60. Then there's Episode 90 and Master Class). While these characters were indeed around more than Alain was, you have to remember the Anime is around to promote the games(and Trevor, Tierno and Shauna are rival characters). Alain's time on screen during the Mega Evolution Episodes had him defeating tough and powerful trainers which established himself as a strong Trainer well before he meets Ash. Compare that to Tobias where he basically comes out of left field with legendaries.
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            #30    
          Old August 14th, 2018 (6:11 PM).
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            If the writers had actually allowed Ash to win the Kalos League championship, it would have been considered as him finally reaching his "goal" of becoming a Pokémon master, and then they would probably have had to replace him with a new protagonist, which would really break the flow of things more than has actually happened (not that they've kept the flow consistent over the generations - the start of the Alola region is such a big change it's essentially a reset of its own).
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              #31    
            Old August 14th, 2018 (7:02 PM).
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              Sure. Hand the show to me and I could write better than the clowns in charge of the anime.
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                #32    
              Old August 15th, 2018 (3:03 AM). Edited August 15th, 2018 by weedle_mchairybug.
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Otter Mii-kun View Post
                If the writers had actually allowed Ash to win the Kalos League championship, it would have been considered as him finally reaching his "goal" of becoming a Pokémon master, and then they would probably have had to replace him with a new protagonist, which would really break the flow of things more than has actually happened (not that they've kept the flow consistent over the generations - the start of the Alola region is such a big change it's essentially a reset of its own).
                Well, technically, he'd still need to beat the Elite 4 and Champion since it was established in DP that Ash needs to do that to become a Master, or at the very least get one step closer to that goal (besides, they didn't replace Ash after winning the Orange Islands, and technically him winning the Battle Frontier would have him not even NEED to continue his journey due to him beating E4-level trainers if Scott is to be believed.).

                Though even IF it does mean replacing him, I'd welcome it, largely because at least it would actually LET him succeed in his goals for once, especially considering keeping him on with Generation VII's premise being such a radical alteration for the games alone, let alone the anime which changed things even further (and the latter I'd argue was for the worse rather than for the better) that Ash being kept as a main character would be utterly pointless. At least it won't have him essentially sit on his butt and not do anything to advance his goal.
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                  #33    
                Old August 16th, 2018 (1:22 PM).
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                  At this point it doesn't ever matter if Ash wins or loses a league.

                  The main series is over.
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                    #34    
                  Old August 17th, 2018 (12:33 PM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Sloxy View Post
                    At this point it doesn't ever matter if Ash wins or loses a league.

                    The main series is over.
                    Couldn't agree more despite disagreeing with you about Alain ^^
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                      #35    
                    Old August 17th, 2018 (2:34 PM).
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                      Couldn't agree more despite disagreeing with you about Alain ^^
                      Everyone has at least something in common right? :D
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                        #36    
                      Old August 17th, 2018 (8:39 PM).
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                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by Otter Mii-kun View Post
                        If the writers had actually allowed Ash to win the Kalos League championship, it would have been considered as him finally reaching his "goal" of becoming a Pokémon master, and then they would probably have had to replace him with a new protagonist, which would really break the flow of things more than has actually happened (not that they've kept the flow consistent over the generations - the start of the Alola region is such a big change it's essentially a reset of its own).
                        I disagree, kinda. I mean as far as we know winning a League doesn't automatically make someone a Pokemon Master. Ash could've just won the Kalos League and then continued his journey by setting his sights on other tournaments, such as the Champion's League thing that was mentioned in DP.
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                          #37    
                        Old August 18th, 2018 (12:28 AM). Edited August 18th, 2018 by weedle_mchairybug.
                        weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
                           
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Quiji View Post
                          I disagree, kinda. I mean as far as we know winning a League doesn't automatically make someone a Pokemon Master. Ash could've just won the Kalos League and then continued his journey by setting his sights on other tournaments, such as the Champion's League thing that was mentioned in DP.
                          I know. Too bad Masamitsu Hidaka made it pretty clear in that interview that they consider Ash winning a league at all as meaning they have to replace him at the very least, if not actually end the show altogether (despite the fact that they never replaced him, or even ended production of the overall anime for that matter, in the Orange Islands after he won a league there, or heck, even when he won Battle Frontier, which technically entailed him fighting E4-level trainers at the very least).
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                            #38    
                          Old August 19th, 2018 (1:14 AM).
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                            In all honesty, Ash doesn't need to win the kalos league. It would just go to his head and he would be thinking he doesn't to train anymore.

                            An example like that is in the original Dragon Ball. Goku & Krillin sign up for the martial arts tournament and they are literally wiping everyone out. Master Roshi isn't too pleased with this, so he enters the tournament under the alias "Jackie Chun" to defeat Goku so his victory won't go to his head.
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                              #39    
                            Old August 19th, 2018 (2:01 AM). Edited August 19th, 2018 by weedle_mchairybug.
                            weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
                               
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                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by ... ... View Post
                              In all honesty, Ash doesn't need to win the kalos league. It would just go to his head and he would be thinking he doesn't to train anymore.

                              An example like that is in the original Dragon Ball. Goku & Krillin sign up for the martial arts tournament and they are literally wiping everyone out. Master Roshi isn't too pleased with this, so he enters the tournament under the alias "Jackie Chun" to defeat Goku so his victory won't go to his head.
                              Problem is, Ash already LEARNED this lesson back when he won the Orange Islands League. Remember when Gary basically beat Pikachu in battle with Eevee? Heck, they even redid that sort of thing in the Battle Frontier where Gary Oak, again, beat Ash effortlessly (and that was despite Gary having retired from training by that point, which made even LESS sense.).

                              Besides, if I remember correctly, Goku and Krillin were fighting in their very first tournament when Roshi did that, while Ash in this case has already participated in no less than seven leagues (including the Orange Islands league), only one of which he actually WON.

                              Not to mention, at least him not needing to train would be justified if he won the league for why he's slacking off in Alola. Right now, he's pretty much slacking off despite the fact that he's still not a Pokémon Master, all because until Episode 43, there IS no league, and he's pretty much stuck in a school environment. Is that TRULY better than him slacking off just because he won Kalos?
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                                #40    
                              Old August 19th, 2018 (11:25 PM).
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                                orange league isn't an official league, so it doesn't count.
                                unless you wanna pull some bullmuk theory out of your ass?
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                                  #41    
                                Old August 19th, 2018 (11:44 PM).
                                weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline
                                   
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                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by ... ... View Post
                                  orange league isn't an official league, so it doesn't count.
                                  unless you wanna pull some bull**** theory out of your ass?
                                  Well, it's certainly closer to an actual league than the Battle Frontier, at least. And how exactly is it not an official league? It not being in the games? By that logic, the Silver Conference isn't an official league either, since there IS no Johto League in the games (in GSC, not to mention the remake HGSS, you actually had to go to the Indigo Plateau in Kanto to do the Pokémon League).
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