Z25
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If Ambipom shows up and its actually the one Ash had, that be pretty cool.
I hope Ash gets that Passimian, and if he does, then where does that Alolan Sandshrew come into play?
[Spoilers] The Capture/Evolution/ Release, etc. Thread
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If Ambipom shows up and its actually the one Ash had, that be pretty cool.
I hope Ash gets that Passimian, and if he does, then where does that Alolan Sandshrew come into play?
The Piplup Curse is what I dub a situation where a Pokemon is prevented from evolving by the writers due to marketing.
CodeHelmet
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I wouldn't call it the Piplup curse. I'd call it the Spaceballs curse due to the movie's infamous line: "Merchandising. Where the real money from the movie is made." That's why Pokemon has lasted as long as it has because certain Pokemon merchandise move faster than others. If it means a Pokemon has to stay a tier 1 for "Marketing purposes", can you blame them? They've been doing that since Day 1 with Squirtle, Bulbasaur and other Pokemon Ash has had over the years.
It's just that Piplup being given an Everstone made it a huge issue. It was when fans noticed that episode was done as a ratings trap (Piplup's attempted evolution) but preventing any evolution in the future because of marketing purposes.
CodeHelmet
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That any different than the Secret Garden involving Bulbasaur back in Season 1? I'm just saying its nothing new and its to be expected. I will admit though that Piplup is probably the most high profile of all the non-evolved Pokemon though considering the hype behind its "Evolution".
Well, some Pokemon anime YouTubers have made some videos on why they think Rowlet won't evolve.
KGPrestige made this video regarding the 7th Gen popularity poll in Japan. Notice that in the Pokemon list, both Primarina and Incineroar made the Top 14 but Decidueye didn't. So maybe it's actually Decidueye who's the least popular final stage starter over there and not Incineroar. But you can easily see why Rowlet won, because it has a very marketable design that extremely appeals to kids.
PokemonRangerBoy12 even gave his own input as to why he think Rowlet may or may not evolve, and he has two points going against Rowlet having an evolution, mostly because of marketing and because Rowlet's personality may be ruined if he evolves.
The Mega Champion
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I didn't watch those videos but I have an idea on what the reasoning is.
And I'm honestly sick of it. Surprised? No. Sick of it? HELL YES.
I could care less if Decidueye is popular or not. Because, for me, IT'S THE BEST FULLY EVOLVED STARTER IN 7TH GEN. Not only that I also pretty much consider it BEST 7TH GEN POKEMON PERIOD.
This gen has been a joke for me honestly. The games were lackadaisical with the only redeeming factor being the story. TRIALS ARE BORING. GYMS ARE BETTER. Most of the Pokemon seemed to be created either last minute or half-assed most of the time.
The only good ones, for me, were pretty much the starters and their evolutions.
This 'popularity' crap is really starting to get ridiculous and get on my last nerves at this point. I could care less about that crap. But obviously that's all shows/animes/etc. care about anymore. How far things have fallen. Whatever happened to quality mattering more? *sighs* :shaking-head-no:
Decidueye WOULD HAVE OFFICIALLY BEEN ASH'S FIRST GHOST TYPE. (Haunter doesn't count because it was never actually 'caught' and was just temporary)
So the fact that this is happening AGAIN is just infuriating. It's the same damn situation as Oshawott from BW. I wanted it to evolve all the way to Samurott YET IT DIDN'T. I didn't care much for Oshawott's personality and the same goes for Rowlet.
Rant aside... this is another ridiculous sorry ass excuse to not give Ash a final evolved starter.
And I'm honestly sick of it. Surprised? No. Sick of it? HELL YES.
I could care less if Decidueye is popular or not. Because, for me, IT'S THE BEST FULLY EVOLVED STARTER IN 7TH GEN. Not only that I also pretty much consider it BEST 7TH GEN POKEMON PERIOD.
This gen has been a joke for me honestly. The games were lackadaisical with the only redeeming factor being the story. TRIALS ARE BORING. GYMS ARE BETTER. Most of the Pokemon seemed to be created either last minute or half-assed most of the time.
The only good ones, for me, were pretty much the starters and their evolutions.
This 'popularity' crap is really starting to get ridiculous and get on my last nerves at this point. I could care less about that crap. But obviously that's all shows/animes/etc. care about anymore. How far things have fallen. Whatever happened to quality mattering more? *sighs* :shaking-head-no:
Decidueye WOULD HAVE OFFICIALLY BEEN ASH'S FIRST GHOST TYPE. (Haunter doesn't count because it was never actually 'caught' and was just temporary)
So the fact that this is happening AGAIN is just infuriating. It's the same damn situation as Oshawott from BW. I wanted it to evolve all the way to Samurott YET IT DIDN'T. I didn't care much for Oshawott's personality and the same goes for Rowlet.
Rant aside... this is another ridiculous sorry ass excuse to not give Ash a final evolved starter.
CodeHelmet
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You do know that popularity has been with Pokemon since day 1. If memory serves, Charizard was the most popular final Evolution among the Kanto starters. It wasn't a coincidence that Charmander eventually evolved into Charizard. Who's to say that won't be the case again here in Sun&Moon where Torracat eventually evolves into Incineroar while the other two starters stay in their base forms(just like Kanto). My suspicion though is that we'll get another Black&White scenario where instead of fully evolving, Torracat will remain as is while the other starters stay at their initial stage just like Oshawott and Snivy.
That being said, if that does happen, it'd be yet another blow to Sun&Moon. I already have it etched in stone as the worst series to date and this would only add fuel to my argument. I also agree with you that Ash has yet to get a Ghost Type, Steel type or Fairy Type(granted last one was introduced in XY). All the more reason I want Ash to get to Ula'Ula Island already so that he can catch some Ice Types like Sandshrew(that'd be his first Steel type as well), Vulpix(which through evolution can garner his first Fairy Type) or Sneasel. Heck I'd even go for an Eevee(he's overdue for one) but odds are if an Eevee joins the group by catch or egg it'd likely go to Lillie.
I do think you have a point that SM will end like Kanto and Unova did, where only the Fire-type starter evolved. If it ends like Kanto with Torracat evolving to Incineroar, I'll be fine with that since Ash looked more worthy to get Incineroar than Decidueye, plus Ash was shown on Incineroar's concept art. It is so sickening that Rowlet is sadly confirmed to be the new Oshawott or Piplup, a Pokemon whose cute design is so popular that it prevents evolution in any circumstance possible, all because said cute design is milked to sell toys.
But if it ends like Unova and stays as Torracat, then I can agree that it's sunk to a level that's as bad as Unova. Having like, only three Pokemon on the main cast even evolve is very lame, especially if the girls (Lillie, Lana, Mallow) all end the generation with no additional captures. It's already looking bad for Lillie and Lana at this stage, since their only Pokemon will both likely be prevented from evolving due to merchandise reasons. While Primarina did place at number 3 on the poll, it's more likely that Ida will showcase it than Lana. It would also sadly confirm Lana as a Dawn 2.0, a female blue-haired main character who owns a Water-type starter that goes against evolution solely because of marketing.
Which is worse, BW's problem of Ash having a huge team of underdeveloped Pokemon, or SM's problem of the resident main cast in general suffering a severe lack of evolutions and captures due to stupid marketing? I'd say the latter, because it annoys me a lot when a Pokemon I wanted to evolve is prevented from doing so because of merchandise or being more appealing than the evolutions are.
And of course, the darn latest episode title trolled us... ASH DID NOT CATCH THAT PASSIMIAN!
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Iceshadow3317
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At this point, I am starting to drift away from the Sun and Moon anime to a point where I just want it to end which has never happened before. We have seen I think every pokemon, but Ultra Beasts and no one has still caught anything since the first 20 or so episodes other than Kiawe.
I do agree that SM has had a lot of disappointments, especially with the main cast's notable lack of captures. Lillie, Lana and Mallow are all in desperate need of a new Pokemon, plus it's not right for Ash to keep hogging everything at the expense of them.
It does also annoy me that Rowlet is going down the path of Piplup and Oshawott, a cute starter Pokemon whose cute base form is so popular that it basically prevents it from evolving because of merchandise. That's a very lame excuse to not make a Pokemon evolve, and shows just how much the anime serves as a huge advertisement to begin with.
CodeHelmet
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Could have told you, and bet real money that he wasn't going to catch it. What I think is eye-raising to me is that in Black&White, his maturity level was pretty low compared to previous Seasons/regions(Kanto not withstanding, although I'd cut him slack in Kanto being that he was just starting out). In the latest Episode, they've not only reduced his maturity level but now he may have actually devolved into a more primitive form. I mean I suppose it fits the slapstick comedy narrative of the series so far but its an agony to watch and reminds me sooooo much of the Teen Titans Go Episode involving Control Freak(wherein PRB12 made a Crack video taking that Episode's audio and comparing S&M to XY/XYZ. See Spoiler below).
Also, I think we're going to get a Kanto region result simply because Kakui's Incineroar is a rival for Ash's Torracat. There will be an Episode that causes it to evolve into its final form sooner or later. If it doesn't, Arceus help this series(much less the Franchise) because a Unova result would be unthinkable. S&M is already getting ripped to shreds and to have Ash get a result worse than Unova with regards to Team Evolutions would be catastrophic.
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If Decidueye isn't popular than why was it chosen to appear in Pokken Tournament over Incineroar and Primarina? Especially since Incineroar was a better fit for the game.
CodeHelmet
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I can't speak for the creators behind the game but the poll that the Poketubers cite is for Japan. What's popular in Japan doesn't necessarily translate to the rest of the world. That means if you're looking to make a video game on Pokemon, particularly for non-Japan markets like the USA, you take that into consideration. For all I know it was sheer coincidence or luck that Decidueye was chosen over its other regional starters.
Im just waiting for the Female protagonists to catch a Pokemon already. If they go the entire series without a catch, I will boycott the Anime.
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Rowlet wont evolve (at least until after Ash has an Incineroar) because the leaked concept art for the Gen VII starters showed Rowlet on Inceinaroar alongside Ash, Mallow, Popplio and Pikachu - and since Ash was included in it means we know it was for the anime.
I feel really scared for Lillie, Mallow and Lana all ending their run with just one Pokemon, and in the case of Lillie and Lana, that their Pokemon gets prevented from evolving because of marketing. Given that female protagonists don't seem to do battle-related goals anymore (last one to at notably battle was Iris) I feel worried that they'll only catch a Pokemon to function as a pet and nothing else.
If the SM girls never catch a second Pokemon, I will officially deem SM as the worst anime series in Pokemon history. I already awarded it the worst Ash design because of the outfit being a recolour of the SM male game protagonist (aka Sun/Elio), so to have it have the worst female companions in terms of team structure will further add to the damage. Imagine how the Japanese audience will react if the SM girls all get shafted like this.
Another big gripe with SM is Ash getting too much important treatment by the writers. Yes, he's the main character and all, but he shouldn't be focused so much that he literally hogs the potential away from the companions.
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CodeHelmet
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When you think about it, that's what happened in Black and White. Ash got all the attention while his companions got shafted. Iris caught a whopping two Pokemon(three if you count her special at the end of the series that was in Japanese dub only) and no Evolutions. Heck Iris only had Emolga to her credit for much of the series and didn't get Dragonite until Dawn was around(which was 89 Episodes in. For a "Dragon Master", that's getting shafted big time). Cilan also only had two captures and just 1 Evolution. Compare that to 9 Captures for Ash and 7 Evolutions(although just one for the regional starters).
Even the much beloved Serena got shafted with an incredibly slow start, three captures(including her starter) and two Evolutions. Granted her goal was non-battling related, it doesn't excuse the lack of attention. Through 65 Episodes, as I noted in another thread, Serena has matched the entire progress of the group if you exclude Ash. Not sure how to quantify a Z-Crystal for Lana in Kalos terms but I consider a failed Performance and a haircut as monumental in terms of character growth for Serena as a Z-Crystal was for Lana. To put it bluntly as you have, if Sun and Moon does nothing, it will easily go down as the worst series to date. Not even the dislike for Black and White or the incredibly slow start for Serena in XY will save it.
I was shocked Iris had no evolutions, but then again she did already have two fully-evolved Pokemon (Excadrill, Dragonite), a small base stage that was prevented from evolution by the writers due to merchandise (Axew), one that couldn't evolve period (Emolga) and one she didn't catch until after finishing her journey with Ash (Gible). Dragonite was of course very infamous due to how late she got it, and that all but sealed her bad reputation with the fans.
Serena may have had a small team, but it was her development in XY060 that sealed her as a popular character. Misty had an interesting lack of evolutions (only one I think she had was Politoed), leaving only May and Dawn as the female companions to get better treatment with team captures and evolutions, with May having 6 captures (Torchic was given to her) while weirdly enough her Wurmple and Torchic were her only on-screen evolutions, both eventually reaching their final stages. Her Bulbasaur, Squirtle and Eevee all evolved off-screen between the end of AG and her DP appearance.
Dawn, aside from being given Piplup by Rowan, had 3 captures, hatched an egg (Cyndaquil) and received two Pokemon from other trainers (Aipom and Togekiss). She did have a lack of on-screen evolutions as well, with only Ambipom and Piloswine/Mamoswine, since Quilava evolved off-screen.
May and Dawn may have still had a small number of evolutions, but at least they got enough Pokemon for a full team and didn't have their attention shafted by Ash. BW onwards always seemed to give Ash all the spotlight while shafting the companions because said female companions weren't active battlers.
CodeHelmet
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Misty had Poliwag evolve to Poliwhirl when she battled Ash for Totodile and then Poliwhirl to Politoed when it came out of its PokéBall holding a King's rock. She also had Togepi evolve in her Hoenn mini-arc, but otherwise she didn't have other Evolutions. Horsea never evolved and it's largely because it rarely battled. Psyduck never did despite an Episode where they teased it happening. Staryu couldn't because she already had Starmie and Goldeen didn't evolve because it hardly battled(and she left it at the Gym). Furthermore Corsola couldn't evolve at all so Misty had a whopping three Evolutions during her on-air screen time. That matches Dawn(Aipom -> Ambipom and and Swinub -> Mamoswine. Also had Cyndaquil evolve during her time in Hoenn) and almost May(who had 4 Evolutions while she was with Ash(Wurmple -> Beautifly and Torchic -> Blaziken). Several more while she was in Johto(Bulbasaur -> Venusaur and Squirtle -> Wartortle) and evolving her Eevee into Glaceon while she was in Sinnoh for her Wallace Cup cameo).
Compare that to nothing for Iris(since she had fully evolved Pokemon or Pokemon that couldn't evolve to begin with) and two for Serena(Fenekin -> Braixen and Eevee -> Sylveon). The fact that the three Female protagonists in SM have had a whopping 1 Evolution and 1 capture(Lillie's Vulpix) speaks volumes. I said awhile back in my Top series thread that after 63 or so Episodes that Sun and Moon will go down as the worst series and that there would be nothing that could change my mind. I think the series intends to solidify its last place ranking on its own without me having to make the case for it.
Oh and Dawn traded Buizel for Aipom. It's not like she got it from Ash for nothing.
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Iceshadow3317
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So Ash has officially caught Poipole, leading to my theory being correct when the japanese Ultra anime was first revealed. This is his first poison type pokemon in a very long time. I think the only other ones he caught were Muk and Haunter, Haunter being given away an episode later.
Now the question is, will it evolve? I think it will, but I think it will be toward the end of the saga. Possibly when battling Necrozma, which I think will happen. It will make Ash look even more impressive that he bonded and evolved an Ultra Beast, which will cause RotomDex to go crazy again.
And last, but not least, most likely he will release it at the end of the saga, as it is kinda an odd pokemon to keep or he may give it to Lillie and the Aether Foundation.
Now the question is, will it evolve? I think it will, but I think it will be toward the end of the saga. Possibly when battling Necrozma, which I think will happen. It will make Ash look even more impressive that he bonded and evolved an Ultra Beast, which will cause RotomDex to go crazy again.
And last, but not least, most likely he will release it at the end of the saga, as it is kinda an odd pokemon to keep or he may give it to Lillie and the Aether Foundation.
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