ANTIFA

We have a thread on Nazis, so I was curious of what people think of the other end of the spectrum, the ANTIFA crowd.

Antifa has become a more prominent figure recently, with rallies by Neo-nazis, KKK, and other such far-right groups often being met by ANTIFA and other far-left groups having led to more than a few scuffles.

I don't have too much to say on them myself without getting as vulgar as I do when discussing the far-right.

I was partly inspired to make this by seeing this video of some ANTIFA wannabe harassing a gunshop owner.

I don't know as much about ANTIFA as I'd like to in all honesty, but I agree with a lot of the change they want to see in the world. The problem is, too many people who identify as ANTIFA are going about it in the wrong way. Peaceful protest is fine, but if your protests turn violent not only is that just something I don't agree with but it ultimately just strengthens the position of the right.

OMG... ANTIFA! I'm not going to be a gentle "Mr. Nice Otter" at all with this post, so you are warned!

These neo-Marxist pro-New World Order terrorists (and I'm not going to apologize for saying this, because that's what they are) claim to "refuse fascism" yet they support the "every American must buy health insurance" requirement imposed by Obamacare, which itself is inherently fascist (goes completely against their "No KKK No Fascist USA" chants). If opposing fascism while supporting mandates to buy health insurance isn't the epitome of hypocritical, then nothing is.

And the primary financier of this movement, George Soros, is, to put it as kindly as I can, a lying, thieving, scumbag, market-manipulating, currency-devaluing-for-no-good-reason-whatsoever, speculator thug POS! (He crashed the British Pound in 1992, making an enormous profit off of the British people's resulting misery, and is working incredibly hard to collapse the US Dollar into the horrors of hyperinflation for personal profit. This is why the dollar should never have been removed from the gold standard in the first place! I consider currency devaluation for personal gain to be a crime against humanity!) Plus, for claiming to oppose fascism, he was a Nazi collaborator in his youth, changing his name from "György Schwartz" to hide his Jewish heritage and escape the World War II Holocaust.

For being such "highly educated" intellectual people coming out of our elite universities such as UC Berkley, these "ANTIFA" terrorists can't say anything but the F word over and over when confronted. I don't give a crap if you claim that I'm making this up, as I've seen tons of videos of their protests and riots over the past year.

If these people really are opposed to a "fascist USA", then they should be targeting Wall Street/Chicago commodity (including energy) speculators, the insurance industry, especially for automobile and healthcare (auto and health insurance mandates do NOT "make our roads safer/make people healthier", but were enacted to make insurance executives and stockholders filthy rich at every driver and patient's expense), and the horrendous evil known as the Federal Reserve System, calling for its complete abolition, as well as a permanent ban on now out-of-control currency speculation via the Forex exchanges. Not to mention putting a ban on "environmental trading" programs (which were created by the demonic Rothschild bankers and Enron executives as an excuse to rip us off at the gas station, electric bills, and grocery store in the name of "saving our planet" and worshipping "Mother Earth" instead of God), and calling for a permanent end to the BS neocon-enacted forever wars in the Middle East for profit by the military-industrial complex that Ron Paul has warned the American people about for many years.

I could go on for hours about this terrorist group, but I'm not going to apologize for what I said above, and if my opposition to a Communist dictatorship run by the Democrats, and my views as stated above make me a "white supremacist", "KKK fascist", "neo-Nazi", "anti-Semitic" or "homophobe/transphobe", then so be it. My only hope now is to someday go home to be with the Lord for eternity.

Reminder that ANTIFA have no centralised leadership and no shared ideology beyond blocking the rise of fascism in the ways their particular group or individual sees fit - lumping them together as if they have a power structure or unifying characteristics beyond a shared loathing of fascism is naive.

And let's just hold off on the wildly antisemitic and intellectually devoid frothing at the mouth about George Soros. There are things to criticise him for without citing insane ravings from the corners of the internet about his supposed links to anything remotely left wing or anti-Trump.

I feel like this Cracked video sums up my general thoughts on it, and the unabashedly bias rhetoric surrounding antifa in general

Otter Mii-kun said:

Not to mention putting a ban on "environmental trading" programs (which were created by the demonic Rothschild bankers and Enron executives as an excuse to rip us off at the gas station, electric bills, and grocery store in the name of "saving our planet" and worshipping "Mother Earth" instead of God).

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Ignoring the rabid antisemitism in both touting jewish conspiracy theories and very obviously false claims soros was a nazi
I don't think you understand where money goes or how much good emissions trading schemes actually do, and the "worship mother nature instead of god" part gives the impression that it's just more conspiracy talk

Otter Mii-kun said:

I could go on for hours about this terrorist group, but I'm not going to apologize for what I said above, and if my opposition to a Communist dictatorship run by the Democrats, and my views as stated above make me a "white supremacist", "KKK fascist", "neo-Nazi", "anti-Semitic" or "homophobe/transphobe", then so be it. My only hope now is to someday go home to be with the Lord for eternity.

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It's a little weird you're throwing so many "negative" things into a single phrase and expecting to be taken seriously here, is anyone so caught up in the spectre of the red scare that they'll just take "it's a communist marxist new world order plot for dictatorship!!!!!!" as a an answer without any attempt on your part to... prove anything?

It's also a little funny that you think the democrats are the ones that're pro big business moguls and predatory business policies when they're... not? And not only is that actually true for the GOP but they've literally been actively passing bills to make "insurance executives and stockholders filthy rich at every (person's) expense" and pumping more money into the "BS neocon-enacted forever wars in the Middle East for profit by the military-industrial complex" for their own personal gain.

I'm not going to call you "white supremacist,KKK fascist, neo-Nazi, or homophobe/transphobe" since you haven't expressed any of those here (Although your investment in far right conspiracy theories peddled by people that are those things is concerning) but you definitely seem caught up in some things that're pretty far removed from the truth

I'm in complete agreement with Her and alien but I do think we shouldn't turn a blind eye to the more violent subcommunity within the ANTIFA movement just because the majority of the group isn't like that or because the views that the group perpetuate are worth fighting for.

Obviously, the majority of the propaganda pushed out by the far-right is complete rubbish but those subsets of ANTIFA do exist and I think they need to be squashed as best as possible for the sake of the positive change they want to make.

I'm not saying turn a blind eye, I'm just saying to remember the actual fundamentals of ANTIFA before analysing its adherents and taking it apart, or before giving in to... let's go with hyperbole.

Her said:

I'm not saying turn a blind eye, I'm just saying to remember the actual fundamentals of ANTIFA before analysing its adherents and taking it apart, or before giving in to... let's go with hyperbole.

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Wasn't really a statement directed at you in particular or anything. Just something I want people to remember. What you're describing there is actually what worries me, that the minority of people who take ANTIFA too far ultimately distract from its fundamentals and allow such hyperbole to exist in the first place.

Their stated aim - opposing fascism - is good, laudable. Some of their tactics are not.

Without going into the morality of violence, when anyone who even remotely looks like they might be even remotely associated with antifa is seen causing, engaging in, or being in the vicinity of violence then the news media and, especially, right-wingers in media, use it to paint all peaceful protests and protesters as violent. That turns a lot of people, such as, I'm sure, one of the previous posters in this tread, against not just them but anyone they remotely associate with. It's not their fault, of course, but they should know what happens, how people react to them, and should be able to see that it doesn't further their goals.

Antifa, as a whole, is no longer what it prescripes to be. Antifa are terroristic thugs with a penchant for violence and have wrecked enough havoc to garner the attention of both the Department of Homeland Security and rhe FBI.

They have consistently proven themselves to become violence by way of either provocation or instigation. The real problem isn't that they adhere to being 'antifascist' but that they have no real guidance and the main targets of these attacks are typically conservative or other right leaning groups that have, more often than not, done nothing to deserve being attacked.

There have been cases of stabbings, lootings, beatings to the point of concussion, beatings to the point of broken bones, arson, general damage to property, damage to police vehicles, damage to civilian vehicles, damage to first responder vehicles, etc. et al.

If you find that your 'non-violent' group has made it onto the FBI's watch list, and worse yet the DHS watch list you've made an egregious error along the way.

There are many other ways to protest, but when you claim you're fighting nazi's you are delusional and need some serious psychiatric help.

The KKK and the Neo-Nazis are nothing new and ultimately a minimal threat according to the powers that be.

Keep in mind, that this doesn't negate violence or the potential of violence from the afforementioned groups, but I find the fact that people use these groups as a scapegoat irritatingly frequent.

"I didn't punch a white person, I punched a Nazi" as if that somehow voided and excused your behaviour of any wrongdoing.

Neo-Nazis and the KKK (both are often intertwined and considered much more of the same) were estimated to roughly 5-8000 members nation wide. By the Southern Poverty Law Center (as much as you can trust them, I'd say the number is even less)

You have a higher chance to smack an N-Sync fan in the mouth than you do a Nazi. You have a higher chance to punch someone that likes anchioves on their pizza than hitting a Nazi. This is ridiculous. You even have higher chances of hitting a member of ISIS in the US than a genuine Nazi.

Racists aren't lurking around every corner and neither are Jewish people that are out to get you. Fascists aren't abounds, settle down.

Antifa is an exercise in mass hysteria that has spiraled out of control. They are being eyed by government officials and New Jersey has decided that they are indeed a domestic terrorist group i.e. using or threatening violence to achieve religous and/or political goals.

They believe that Antifa are indeed coordinated and not as rag-tag as they initially appear.

As far as I'm concerned, they need to stop spreading their hate and propaganda. We don't live in a dictatorship. God, these people need help.

To be honest, I could have just dropped the link and just left it at that as it pretty much speaks volumes by itself. Give it a serious glance.

JDJacket said:

To be honest, I could have just dropped the link and just left it at that as it pretty much speaks volumes by itself. Give it a serious glance.

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I'm not really sure if you read any of the other posts in this thread, but did you strike through all that because it was factually wrong (which it was), or just to make a showmanship point?

I personally don't like them. I'm a Liberal and I feel like they give us a bed reputation. A lot of my centrist friends both IRL and online say that they don't want to associate with Liberals when we have discussions because "You guys have antifa" - which I think is silly anyway.

That said, I think the alt-right is muuuuuch worse for this country. And as much as I think antifa needs to be stopped, they don't actually have much real power outside of universities. Whereas Donald Trump is in the white house and the Republicans control most of congress. I think those are much more serious than antifa.

Razor Xtreme said:

I personally don't like them. I'm a Liberal and I feel like they give us a bed reputation. A lot of my centrist friends both IRL and online say that they don't want to associate with Liberals when we have discussions because "You guys have antifa" - which I think is silly anyway.

That said, I think the alt-right is muuuuuch worse for this country. And as much as I think antifa needs to be stopped, they don't actually have much real power outside of universities. Whereas Donald Trump is in the white house and the Republicans control most of congress. I think those are much more serious than antifa.

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I think the real concern now is whether or not you consider the group correctly classified as an at risk and/or domestic terrorist threat under the DHS. As far as the alt-right is concerned, yes I will admit that the vast majority are ass-hats but I don't aknowledge, and neither does any other major governmental installation, the alt-right as a major nor minor threat on the same basis they consider Antifa.

Once they establish the same brash tactics as Antifa (the alt-right) then we should deal but as many have previously pegged true neonazis and kkk members to number less than 10,000 members nationwide I feel that defaulting to 'all alt-right are nazis and violent too' to set a dangerous precedent.

For the most part, the worst I've seen the alt-right do are either instigate or retaliate against Antifa members specifically, and the latter seems to have much less restraint in attacking random people that they disagree with.

Punching anyone without cause, is well, illegal and I don't endorse nor condone either group's behaviour but I know which group is labeled and filed under the domestic terrorism tab in the office of the DHS.

Troll lords and shitposters, both internet based, are not violent to the same degree as Antifa. The internet, and your computer (unless you take a bath with it) cannot harm you physically and therein lies the problem with many on the side of Antifa. Words cannot kill but improvised explosives (molotovs) can. Just because someone calls you a name doesn't give you clearance to commit acts of physical violence against that person.

If we're keeping a running tab of violence from both sides, I'd ask for a list of alt-right violence, not relegated to internet troll posting but to actual arrests and incidents throughout the past year or so. Do you have such a list made available to you?

JDJacket said:

If we're keeping a running tab of violence from both sides, I'd ask for a list of alt-right violence, not relegated to internet troll posting but to actual arrests and incidents throughout the past year or so. Do you have such a list made available to you?

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A woman was literally murdered just earlier this year

Also, maybe read the thread? You seem kind of heavily misinformed