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  #1901    
Old January 10th, 2012 (6:14 PM).
Blade_of_darkness Blade_of_darkness is offline
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    Might I be able to join? I'm someone who doesn't have even the vaguest clue as to what my sexuality is, & something is telling me that I might find answers in here.

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      #1902    
    Old January 10th, 2012 (8:51 PM).
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    Like I said to Andy a bit ago over irc, I apologize on behalf of Catholicism.
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      #1903    
    Old January 11th, 2012 (2:46 AM).
    Briar's Avatar
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
      Like I said to Andy a bit ago over irc, I apologize on behalf of Catholicism.
      well this is a bit of a downer.
      technically, he is also criticizing single moms and dads because, "apparently", a child should be brought up with the traditional tandem -- the mother and the father.
      also, deeply disappointed because a professor i HIGHLY respect actually agrees with the Pope's views here. of course, this doesn't make him any less of a good teacher, but still... :-(
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        #1904    
      Old January 11th, 2012 (2:48 AM).
      Shining Raichu's Avatar
      Shining Raichu Shining Raichu is offline
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      Welcome, Blade_of_darkness! I'm glad you decided to join us :)

      @Toujours' article, I have never felt more disgusted and never more correct in my wariness of Catholicism and of religion in general. One quote I found rather hilarious was this:

      Quote:
      One leading opponent of gay marriage in the United States is New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan, whom the pope will elevate to cardinal next month.
      I have to wonder why he's being elevated to cardinal. Is it perhaps that he has done so well in his fight against equality that he has earned a promotion?

      Quote:
      Dolan fought against gay marriage before it became legal in New York state last June, and in September he sent a letter to President Barack Obama criticizing his administration's decision not to support a federal ban on gay marriage.In that letter Dolan, who holds the powerful post of president of the U.S. Bishops Conference, said such a policy could "precipitate a national conflict between church and state of enormous proportions."

      Yep, that was exactly the reason. I love how the Catholic Church works lol.


      Quote:
      Some Churches that have allowed gay marriage, women priests, gay clergy and gay bishops have been losing members to Catholicism, and the Vatican has taken steps to facilitate their conversion.

      So basically it has become the dumping ground of the bigots who refuse to evolve with their own religions. One giant exclusive club for those who hate under the guise of love.
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        #1905    
      Old January 11th, 2012 (4:55 AM).
      Daydream's Avatar
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      I've never understood this idea that needing a "functioning family unit" is an opposition to gay marriage, or against gay couples having children. Parents get divorced quite often these days, and I'm sure most of those children develop fine, I mean my parents are divorced and that's never caused me any kind of problems. Moreover, people argue that you need both a mother and father figure. Why? Single parents often raise children alone (I have friends testament to this) and the lack of male or female influence doesn't necessarily affect them.
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        #1906    
      Old January 11th, 2012 (7:31 AM).
      -Jared-'s Avatar
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      -sigh- You know, I can see why gay Christians become atheists. :\ There's just no feeling welcome anywhere. ;__; And it's **** like this that made me question my Christianity growing up. ;__;

      Though I can't wait to hear how this goes over with single and divorced parents. That should raise a ruckus with them, and since they are straight, THEY'LL be listened to. >____< (Ok, likely, they won't be and that is even more annoying. >___<)
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        #1907    
      Old January 11th, 2012 (8:08 AM).
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      Esper Esper is offline
       
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      A bunch of old, family-less, closeted and self-hating gay men are talking to us about raising children? Please.

      I'd like to be able to pity them, but they're old enough to know better so they don't have any excuses for this kind of behavior. When children throw tantrums you're not supposed to give in to them so I don't know why anyone pays any attention to these whiny bastards when they complain that things aren't going the way they want them to.

      Oh, sorry. I think I just got vitriol all over the thread.
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        #1908    
      Old January 11th, 2012 (8:59 AM).
      Daydream's Avatar
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Pikapal642 View Post
      -sigh- You know, I can see why gay Christians become atheists. :\
      To be fair I don't think labeling Christians all under that banner is totally fair. There are a lot of Christians who are completely supportive of gay rights, and even campaign for them. Which I'm sure you are /do. And Christians can obviously be gay, too.
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        #1909    
      Old January 11th, 2012 (9:12 AM).
      -Jared-'s Avatar
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Daydream View Post
      To be fair I don't think labeling Christians all under that banner is totally fair. There are a lot of Christians who are completely supportive of gay rights, and even campaign for them. Which I'm sure you are /do. And Christians can obviously be gay, too.
      Well I know that. xD What I mean is that, while you do hear a lot of Christians being supportive, it's hearing Christians say that your lifestyle is sinful and that you aren't good enough to be parents and that you are wrong for being you that makes you wonder why you even bother. Why you even should try any more. So what I mean is that, as a gay Christian, I always felt like, I may as well just be atheist because I would feel happier and I wouldn't have to care any more what other judgmental Christians think. That's what I mean; it's just so...appealing, you could say. And I understand that feeling so much.

      I wasn't trying to put all Christians under that banner and I am sorry if I offended you by saying that. ;__;
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        #1910    
      Old January 11th, 2012 (10:33 AM).
      Daydream's Avatar
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      You didn't offend me! I'm not Christian, myself. I just think it's quite important to highlight that there are a lot of Christians who are forward-thinking compared to the old-fashioned stance the leaders of the Catholic church take.
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        #1911    
      Old January 11th, 2012 (10:44 AM).
      -Jared-'s Avatar
      -Jared- -Jared- is offline
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      Of course, of course! I was just commenting on my own personal experience, I suppose. xD But that is one of the reasons I felt better about my sexuality and my religion; I knew there were Christians out there that were accepting of all. ^___^
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        #1912    
      Old January 11th, 2012 (12:55 PM).
      Esper's Avatar
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Pikapal642 View Post
      What I mean is that, while you do hear a lot of Christians being supportive
      I actually don't hear this much at all. Sometimes, yeah, but most of the support I see and hear about comes from people who are non-religious or only slightly religious.
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        #1913    
      Old January 11th, 2012 (1:42 PM).
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      Sydian Sydian is offline
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      I hear Christian support, and I'm in the Bible Belt. :x As this generation of Christians grow up and the older ones die out, to put it bluntly, there are more accepting Christians nowadays than there used to have been. Besides...I have a hard time believing if someone's a Christian and they sit here and judge homosexuals, or anyone else, without taking a look at certain verses that go against that.

      -floats off-
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        #1914    
      Old January 11th, 2012 (2:50 PM).
      Shining Raichu's Avatar
      Shining Raichu Shining Raichu is offline
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
      A bunch of old, family-less, closeted and self-hating gay men are talking to us about raising children? Please.

      I'd like to be able to pity them, but they're old enough to know better so they don't have any excuses for this kind of behavior. When children throw tantrums you're not supposed to give in to them so I don't know why anyone pays any attention to these whiny bastards when they complain that things aren't going the way they want them to.

      Oh, sorry. I think I just got vitriol all over the thread.
      I love you. I don't care if you're a woman, marry me.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Pikapal642 View Post
      while you do hear a lot of Christians being supportive
      I actually don't hear this much at all. Sometimes, yeah, but most of the support I see and hear about comes from people who are non-religious or only slightly religious.
      Actually this is a great point. For all the people who have posted in here saying that there are a lot of Christians who are supportive of homosexuality (and I'm not disputing it, I'm sure they exist somewhere) I've never seen it once with my own eyes outside of the Internet. In my experience, religion has truly become synonymous with intolerance and I haven't once seen anything in my own life which contradicts that.

      The closest I've ever seen is the "hate the sin, not the sinner" fallacy which quite frankly is just not good enough.
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        #1915    
      Old January 11th, 2012 (5:01 PM). Edited January 11th, 2012 by Briar.
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      Briar Briar is offline
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Pikapal642 View Post
        -sigh- You know, I can see why gay Christians become atheists. :\ There's just no feeling welcome anywhere. ;__; And it's **** like this that made me question my Christianity growing up. ;__;
        i think it all comes down to what you really believe in. even though some of my "brothers and sisters in faith" are disagreeable, the community itself shouldn't discourage me from calling myself a christian. it's what i believe in that should define me as a christian, not my community.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
        I actually don't hear this much at all. Sometimes, yeah, but most of the support I see and hear about comes from people who are non-religious or only slightly religious.
        i've heard of several anglican and protestant churches that are pretty liberal minded and embrace the lgbtq* community. :-)
        i really think that, for christianity as a whole, it's just catholicism that's remaining inflexible when it comes to topics like these.
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          #1916    
        Old January 11th, 2012 (5:35 PM).
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        Jubilation Jubilation is offline
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Briar View Post
          i've heard of several anglican and protestant churches that are pretty liberal minded and embrace the lgbtq* community. :-)
          i really think that, for christianity as a whole, it's just catholicism that's remaining inflexible when it comes to topics like these.
          Yeah my bestfriend's father is a Anglican Reverend (think that's what his role is called) and he fully embraces the queer community and even let's me sleep in his daughter's bed (nothing happens but yes).

          It's really nice because at my old church they used to not look down, but discourage the "gay lifestyle" and it really annoyed me, as religion at that time was a part of my life.
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            #1917    
          Old January 11th, 2012 (5:42 PM). Edited January 11th, 2012 by -Jared-.
          -Jared-'s Avatar
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
          The closest I've ever seen is the "hate the sin, not the sinner" fallacy which quite frankly is just not good enough.
          And it isn't good enough for me as well. That line seems to just be used to make people feel better about their judgmental ways. Because they never seem to "love the sinner but hate the fact that they disrespect their parents" or "hate the fact that they feel jealous of their neighbor." That's because those "sins" are more acceptable by society at large.

          That's why I am glad there are Christians out there that don't follow that line.

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Briar
          i think it all comes down to what you really believe in. even though some of my "brothers and sisters in faith" are disagreeable, the community itself shouldn't discourage me from calling myself a christian. it's what i believe in that should define me as a christian, not my community.


          Yeah, that's is why I am who I am today. :3 At the time I didn't know or think that, but as I grew up I realized it didn't matter what everyone else thought; I am me, and that was that. ^___^
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            #1918    
          Old January 11th, 2012 (6:47 PM).
          Harmonie's Avatar
          Harmonie Harmonie is offline
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            Do not get me started on homosexuality and the Bible. Just don't. =P

            The fact of the matter is I just don't buy being against homosexuality as a "religious belief". It's more of an excuse, and hiding hatred behind the Bible. You can't deny it, we've seen it happen with other groups as well, like women.

            Once society evolves, these verses always get declared as irrelevant, but beforehand they are treated like they are above the Ten Commandments which couldn't possibly annoy me anymore. It's all too clear what is going on here. It's not a religious belief in the least. It is a natural hate toward homosexuality being masked as a religious belief.

            And that is why you don't want to get me started. lol
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              #1919    
            Old January 11th, 2012 (9:32 PM).
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            Alice Alice is offline
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
            The closest I've ever seen is the "hate the sin, not the sinner" fallacy which quite frankly is just not good enough.
            Whenever someone tries to use the "Hate the sin, not the sinner." line, I use a saying of my own: "Hate nothing."

            It's not your place to hate as a Christian, who's God loves the world and every living creature. It's something you should strive to get rid of completely...

            That's more my own personality talking rather than actual Christianity though, as it seems very few Christians share this belief with me.

            (Sorry if I'm getting too... uh, emotional I guess. This conversation has just made me realize how much it bugs me when Christians act like this. =/)
              #1920    
            Old January 12th, 2012 (8:43 AM).
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            Oryx Oryx is offline
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
            I love you. I don't care if you're a woman, marry me.
            I support this wholeheartedly. Scarf x Shining Raichu

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Pikapal642 View Post
            Though I can't wait to hear how this goes over with single and divorced parents. That should raise a ruckus with them, and since they are straight, THEY'LL be listened to. >____< (Ok, likely, they won't be and that is even more annoying. >___<)
            Single and divorced parents are pretty much in the same boat, honestly, at least in Catholicism. Single parents aren't considered a full family unit because they had sex outside of marriage which is a sin, and divorce...doesn't exist in the Catholic church. After decades of not being part of it, when my mom went back, she had to prove that the marriage wasn't legitimate in the eyes of the Catholic church in order to get it annuled. Because an annulment isn't just a Catholic divorce, it's literally saying that the two people, when they got married, weren't in a position to make that decision for some reason or another (they felt pressured due to an unexpected pregnancy, one partner didn't reveal themselves fully until after the marriage was complete, or a lack of wish to have children are common reasons). Basically saying the marriage never existed, not like a divorce where it's "the marriage existed, then it ended". So a divorced couple, unless they're annuled, are wrong in the eyes of the Church.
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              #1921    
            Old January 12th, 2012 (11:52 AM).
            Magdalena~'s Avatar
            Magdalena~ Magdalena~ is offline
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
              I've never seen it once with my own eyes outside of the Internet. In my experience, religion has truly become synonymous with intolerance and I haven't once seen anything in my own life which contradicts that.
              The only two churches I ever remember being to in my life were exceedingly accepting. It was practically insane how much understanding and completely blind acceptance I got from the people in the second church. By blind acceptance, I mean when I came in the first time dressed in girl clothes, not passing even remotely and going by a perfectly obvious female name, no one asked any questions or showed me any contempt, whether direct or oblique, and everyone was very pleasant. Everyone gladly called me the name I introduced myself with too and didn't even seem awkward when they said it.
              I can't emphasise this enough. A lot of Christians are supportive of LGBTcetera.

              I also am in the same boat with Envy--it's nothing to do with actually being religious, at its core.
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                #1922    
              Old January 12th, 2012 (4:54 PM). Edited January 12th, 2012 by Esper.
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              Esper Esper is offline
               
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
              I love you. I don't care if you're a woman, marry me.
              Sorry, sweet cheeks, but I'm not the marrying type. ;D

              Quote:
              Originally Posted by QuilavaKing View Post
              Whenever someone tries to use the "Hate the sin, not the sinner." line, I use a saying of my own: "Hate nothing."
              I'm going to steal this line from you.

              And here's a little piece of news. It seems that the Girl Scouts USA are having some people trying to start a boycott of their cookies because the Scouts allow trans kids into their ranks. Who knew that they were cool with trans kids? That's a nice surprise for a change, but the regressive people getting upset with it is a bit of a downer.

              Oh, here's an [article] 'bout it.

              Edit: Looks like someone already brought this up over in OC.
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                #1923    
              Old January 13th, 2012 (10:18 AM).
              Magdalena~'s Avatar
              Magdalena~ Magdalena~ is offline
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                Oh my sister showed me this yesterday. I think it's so sweet. ^^ I spent most of my childhood as an "honourary Girl Scout" (my mother was a troop leader and my sister and all her friends were scouts, so I kind of had to haha) so the Girl Scouts are really very close to my heart <3

                Quote:
                She goes on to note, "I am asking you to take action with me and boycott Girl Scout Cookies."
                -Cue 50% of everyone who has read this article to each buy enough cookies for themselves and her combined-

                Offtopic: I love Do-Si-Dos. <3
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                #167: Spinarak - The String Spit Pokémon
                Bug/Poison ~ Bug eggs
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                It lies still in the same pose for days in its web,
                waiting for its unsuspecting prey to wander close.

                Abilities: Swarm or Insomnia or Sniper
                Moves: String Shot, Scary Face, Shadow Sneak, Pin Missile
                Locations: Routes 2, 30, 31, 37 (night)
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                jp: イトマル (Itomaru)
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                  #1924    
                Old January 13th, 2012 (3:18 PM).
                Harmonie's Avatar
                Harmonie Harmonie is offline
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                  I didn't know that Girl Scouts allowed trans people either, but that is certainly a good thing!

                  I tried reading the article, but got to the part (in the first sentence, I believe) where the words "radical homosexual agenda" were put, and I just couldn't even bring myself to read it even further. Even if the article itself is neutral, just seeing that anybody said something so ridiculous puts me off from reading about it any further.

                  The worst thing is that it's not even about homosexuality, right? It's about somebody being transgendered. So not only is the concept of a "homosexual agenda" one of the most ridiculous things ever, but gender identity has NOTHING to do with homosexuality.

                  I'm sorry, but how are people this dumb? Just how is it even possible?
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                    #1925    
                  Old January 13th, 2012 (3:29 PM).
                  -Jared-'s Avatar
                  -Jared- -Jared- is offline
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
                  Sorry, sweet cheeks, but I'm not the marrying type. ;D


                  I'm going to steal this line from you.

                  And here's a little piece of news. It seems that the Girl Scouts USA are having some people trying to start a boycott of their cookies because the Scouts allow trans kids into their ranks. Who knew that they were cool with trans kids? That's a nice surprise for a change, but the regressive people getting upset with it is a bit of a downer.

                  Oh, here's an [article] 'bout it.

                  Edit: Looks like someone already brought this up over in OC.
                  I had no idea the Girl Scouts were accepting of transgendered children! :D That is amazing! And I don't know why, but I get the feeling the boycott won't be too effective. Idk why, must be a gut thing. xD
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