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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:25 PM).
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Its not exactly a power-house when it has this set, but its still a very good Pokemon. The barriers were a good idea for BPing, but not if the essence for a Togekiss.
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:25 PM).
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well that's the thing. if the person switches out when you put whatever comes into battle to sleep, that gives you at least one CM (and if they bring in something slower than mr mime), 2 CMs. 2 CMs is exactly what you need to make togekiss a major stronghold in taking out most things.
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:26 PM).
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Well as annoying as Togekiss' are to take down this just make's it worse. We don't know if we should run the paraflinching set or if after a CM or two, Togekiss won't need Roost.

TW isn't as needed with Mr. Mine now knowing Hypnosis.

Edit: One CM is enough to scare me..............depending on what team I have............
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:28 PM).
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Im think just a sweeper works in this sense for Togekiss. Roost and T-Wave are wasted on double CMed power.
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:31 PM).
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i dunno, i'd keep thunderwave on togekiss. you could try Air Slash/Aura Sphere/Flamethrower/Thunderwave. flamethrower is just to hit those bulky steels harder. grass knot is also good rather flamethrower as ground types resist thunderwave.
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:32 PM).
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Well if you get down to low HP and someone switches in for a Blissey you could take advantage of it with Roost.

I'm only suspecting to get one CM off.
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:34 PM).
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i dunno, i'd keep thunderwave on togekiss. you could try Air Slash/Aura Sphere/Flamethrower/Thunderwave. flamethrower is just to hit those bulky steels harder. grass knot is also good rather flamethrower as ground types resist thunderwave.
He doesn't get STAB on that, but then I thought about the CM part. But rather then passing CM, why don't you use Nasty Plot on Togekiss itself? And he's bulky enough to withstand a few hits without CM.
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:35 PM).
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Well if we CAN get more, thsan thats amazing. And maybe Air Slash Aura Sphere Flamethrower Grass Knot? Sure Blissey resisits this, but think about it, it isnt sa team of two, you can always have a physical Poke there. And Nasty Plot is an ok way to go, but its a waste of a turn that could be used, and we're fueling its aweosme special defence to make it harder to take down than ever!
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:35 PM).
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well in all reality, one CM is not all that battle-changing. 50% boosts barely change things, especially when there are pokes like blissey who will make an effort to wall it. a 100% boost is worth the trouble, but still isn't that effective in doing a decent sweeping job.

if you really want togekiss to do some sweeping, you don't even need mr mime. after a couple nasty plots, blissey can't handle taking 2 aura spheres.
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:37 PM).
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He doesn't get STAB on that, but then I thought about the CM part. But rather then passing CM, why don't you use Nasty Plot on Togekiss itself? And he's bulky enough to withstand a few hits without CM.
I thought of the same thing, Samson. We have identical minds, apparently.
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:38 PM).
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The CM's give it Sp.Def as well, so it can take hits too. And I beg to differ. 50% increase may not make a difference on Blissey but other things.................

And this way Togekiss come's in unsctratched.
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:44 PM).
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The CM's give it Sp.Def as well, so it can take hits too. And I beg to differ. 50% increase may not make a difference on Blissey but other things.................

And this way Togekiss come's in unsctratched.
And it comes in unharmed without CM. You're scoffing at 115 base Sp.def? And it has 120 base attack. Enough to Nasty Plot. And 115 sp.def is enough, it doesn't need a boost.
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:52 PM).
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Yes but then you have to take attacks while Nasty Plotting. Which I know Togekiss can take, but it could hurt later. This way you get an extra move on Togekiss too.

Thanks for everyone's feedback though!! I think we're going to roll with it. Wish I/we could have 5 moves on Mr. Mime though............
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Old October 8th, 2007 (3:53 PM).
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So we dont need to improive the already good? This Togekiss doesnt have Nasty Plot because we want a more diverse movepool. it geta a CM boost with a better set, and makes a larger threat.
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Old October 8th, 2007 (4:01 PM).
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ya but all the feedback's really helped.

Except we still need EV's for Togekiss. I have the general idea but I'm too lazy to get technical.
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Old October 8th, 2007 (10:21 PM).
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definitely bold. although, i'm not even sure what you plan on doing w/ togekiss. 252 HP is always vital on kiss, maybe 116 def and the rest sp atk?
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Old October 9th, 2007 (2:29 AM).
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Hhm, I'm surprised no mention of Soundproof on Mr Mime rather than Filter. Would mess up Roar and Heal Bell especially. I can see the advantage of Filter, I just think Soundproof needs be considered a bit more before being completely abandoned.
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Old October 9th, 2007 (3:02 PM).
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Filter is used to kepp Mr.Mime alive. A Gengar comes out, and uses Shadow Ball, and otherwise else, we WOULD be dead. But filter prevents that.
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