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Old February 24th, 2008 (6:56 AM).
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Hmmm... no idea on the soul dew.

My theory on Shaymin: functioning as a sort of antibody for the world. A purifier. But I guess that's pretty basic.

My main question to bring up: why does the new Giratina form have different stats? Serebii said that its stats are above the current form. Does that mean that the Giratina we all know and love was somehow cut down from the goofy-looking, flying, tentacled version of itself?
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Old February 24th, 2008 (7:20 AM).
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About shaymin; Yeah thats kinda been said
As for giratina, it has new statistics regarding anatomy, more specifically:
...Ok it seems serebii have taken off the page showing giratina. All i can tell you is that it only differs in height and weight, and is not coded into the games (It would have leaked already lol)
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Old February 26th, 2008 (12:45 PM).
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Kanto introduced Moltres, Zapdos, Articuno, Mew, and Mewtwo. Johto introduced Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Lugia, Celebi, and Ho-Oh. Hoenn introduced Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Latias, Latios, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi, and Deoxys. And now we have Sinnoh, which introduced Regigigas, Giratina, Darkrai, Arceus, Mesprit, Uxie, Azelf, Dialga, Palkia, Manaphy, Phione, Cresselia, and Heatran.

Kanto and Johto are next to one another, Hoenn elsewhere, and Sinnoh even farther, probably in the opposite direction.

We can discount Deoxys and Mewtwo as far as legends go. Deoxys is just an alien virus that mutated, and Mewtwo was created by humans. They're just incredibly strong Pokémon, and nothing more.

Zapdos, Moltres, and Articuno represent the forces of lightning, fire, and ice. As Prof. Oak stated in The Power of One, an electrically-charged steam current has the power to flood the planet. This is basically what the "Beast of the Sea" was, caused by an imbalance of power between the trinity of forces. Lugia, having ocean-related powers in combination with being a Psychic type, allowed it to calm the birds. Not on its own, of course; Ash needed to get the orbs from each island and place them in a single shrine. I suspect that these orbs were charged with the elemental powers of the respective birds, and the sound waves from Melody's ocarina or Lugia's cry caused the radiation from those orbs to harmonize, which in turn would harmonize the birds themselves, restoring the balance and "calming the 'Beast of the Sea'". Such a form of radiation would only affect Articuno, Moltres, and Zapdos in this way. It would be just like light from a flashlight to anyone else.

In Ecruteak City, we learn that Lugia and Ho-Oh lived there atop twin towers in ancient times, but human greed and lust for power chased them away. If I remember correctly, the Tin Tower is where Lugia lived, and the Brass Tower (now the Burnt Tower) was Ho-Oh's perch. Lugia probably evolved (not in the Pokémon way) to adapt to the ocean, thus why you find it in the Whirl Islands. Ho-Oh probably decided to return to the Tin Tower, since it was the only tower standing and sensed your kindness.

Again in Ecruteak, you learn that Ho-Oh has a connection to Entei, Raikou, and especially Suicune. It seems to me that the legendary dog trio are judges, racing across the land not just because their power is incredible (and yet they're all BL/OU? What the hell?), but also because they were watching us humans. Then you come along, capture/defeat all three, and Ho-Oh understands that humans aren't beyond redemption, and thus flies to Tin Tower and awaits you.

Speaking of Suicune, there's a connection with the Unown here. They never were considered like this before, but perhaps Unown can be a legendary Pokémon? Also, if you've seen Spell of the Unown, you know that the Unown come from an alternate dimension... Perhaps the same dimension Giratina hails from? Maybe the Unown were created so that humans could better understand Pokémon simply by spelling certain things out.

Mew, being the ancestor of all Pokémon, can learn every move that can be taught by humans or learned on its own. It can also learn every other move, but without a method, there's no way to demonstrate this. Mewtwo was created by humans using Mew's DNA, but because they capitalized on power, Mewtwo lost the ability to learn all moves like Mew can.

In ancient times, the Hoenn Region's legends tell of a Pokémon who created oceans and a Pokémon who carved mountains. Kyogre and Groudon, the "weather ubers", are these, and they apparently conflict in every way. Apparently, the Red and Blue Orbs allow the wielder's heart to speak to, perhaps control, these Pokémon. Team Aqua's leader's heart was corrupted by a lust for power, thus driving Kyogre berserk (as seen in the anime). Pikachu's heart was pure, so Groudon was able to stop Kyogre.

However, it can also be said that Kyogre and Groudon can reject the Orbs' power and return to the Cave of Origin, their apparent birthplace. As shown in Pokémon Emerald Version, Rayquaza can force both Kyogre and Groudon into a stalemate and send them away, which is probably why the Air Lock ability is only Rayquaza's. Whenever Groudon and Kyogre meet, a huge battle between them ensues. Apparently, this is not because they hate one another, but because such a clash needs to happen in a certain spot to create a certain environment.

Rayquaza is known as the Sky High Pokémon, and rightly so, for it makes its home beyond human eyesight in the ozone layer. This is why Rayquaza was the first to encounter Deoxys, who mutated because of the ozone it passed through. Rayquaza recognized Deoxys as the alien virus it was, and thus attacked it. Thinking that the virus was eliminated, Rayquaza returned to the ozone layer. Years later, Deoxys reawoke and started looking for the other Deoxys. Rayquaza sensed this and sped off in an intercept course, making sure to eradicate the virus this time for good. However, when a certain city's security system goes haywire, it's the twin Deoxys who defend Rayquaza. It's in this moment that Rayquaza realizes the mutation wasn't just a physical one, and from human kindness, both Deoxys have learned much. Rayquaza ceases its mission and returns to the sky, and both Deoxys, knowing they don't belong but taking the memories with them, return to space.

Celebi, the Time Travel Pokémon and guardian of the forest, is said not to appear in war-torn times. Also, in Japan, Pokémon Gold, Silver, and Crystal Versions had a side quest involving the G.S. Ball (which appeared in the anime as well). The player would take the G.S. Ball to the shrine in the Ilex Forest in order to meet Celebi. With this information, it can be said that the G.S. Ball can only be opened by someone pure of heart in a time of peace. Kurt, the Apricorn Ball maker, couldn't even dent the G.S. Ball. That's not to say he's not pure of heart, but it does mean that perhaps, like with Lugia's legend, there was a chosen person to open the G.S. Ball. Also, in Pokémon Colosseum, the Time Flute calls Celebi to fully purify a Shadow Pokémon at the Relic Stone in Agate Village. Celebi does this by apparently combining its time travel and psychic abilities to make the Pokémon remember its happiest moments, as well as to see what you've done to help the world become a better place. You've noticed that the Relic Stone has a circular hole in the top, right? Perhaps the G.S. Ball could also be used here?

Jirachi awakens once for a week every millennium. I'd hate to take a nap for that long only to be awake for a week. Anyway, Jirachi doesn't really relate to any other Pokémon, it's just there for you to stick a note on and cry since you most likely won't live long enough to see the wish fulfilled.

Heatran, the volcanic Pokémon found in Stark Mountain has only one possible connection, which is to Entei, who makes volcanoes erupt by barking. The Pokédex doesn't show any connection. However, by talking to people in the games, I found someone who told me a few things. In the Survival Area, the old man who lives in the house adjacent to and on the left of the Pokémon Center says this:

"Let me tell you about the volcano named Stark Mountain. That volcano dates to when Sinnoh was made by the melding of time and space. Fiery lava spilled out and pooled, and then it turned into a Pokémon. It's said the Magma Stone was used to keep the Pokémon under control. Over time, the Pokémon turned into the volcano, according to legend."

According to what this old man says and this trailer for Dialga VS Palkia VS Darkrai, Dialga and Palkia had a fight, which shaped Stark Mountain. You'll notice near the beginning of that video that the town is in a mountainous region. In the games, the island with the Battle Tower is also very mountainous. I suspect this town is located on that island, but wasn't included in the games. The lava became Heatran, which should be obvious, considering that Heatran is found inside Stark Mountain. As for the Magma Stone, that would be interesting to research next.

Latios and Latias roam the Hoenn Region, apparently in a guardianship role. This is especially true in Pokémon Heroes, when Altomare is attacked by a pair of agents from Team Rocket. They apparently have no connection to others.

Shaymin is apparently just a guardian of flowers and nature, who appears only to those who are truly thankful towards Pokémon and nature for their beauty and mutual uses.

Darkrai and Cresselia appear to oppose one another in the same way light and darkness do. Darkrai's Dark Void traps someone into sleep, while Bad Dreams turns dreams to nightmares. However, this state can be reversed by the Lunar Wing, which is apparently a feather from Cresselia's pink curves in spite of its own green color. I assume that the Lunar Wing becomes green after dropping from Cresselia's body, much like a branch will become brown in the center instead of green because it's no longer attached to the tree it came from. However, Cresselia and Darkrai also work together, being essentially Moon and Shadow, which always go hand-in-hand anyway.

Regigigas is a very interesting Pokémon, because it's bigger than a blue whale (look at the trailer for the movie after Dialga VS Palkia VS Darkrai). Now look at it in Pokémon Battle Revolution, and Dialga's bigger. What the hell? Well, anyway, Regigigas apparently worked together with Groudon, or at least cleaned up its mess, pulling the continents together. This is probably how Regirock was formed, what with all that rock from everywhere being thrown around. Regice was probably formed from the earliest polar ice caps' ice, and Registeel was probably made from metal found in a meteorite that Regigigas snatched out of the sky as it fell. Regigigas would shape these three Pokémon, give them life, and put them in what would become Hoenn as totems, or perhaps guardians (see Lucario and the Mystery of Mew). By capturing all three "totems", bringing them to Sinnoh, and going down into the Snowpoint Temple, one could reawaken Regigigas. I'm sure the next movie will shed more light on Regigigas, Shaymin, and Giratina. Until then, we can only speculate on this one.

Giratina, the only Ghost/Dragon Pokémon to exist, who lives in an alternate dimension. This one's really interesting to me, because it's mainly defensive. I'd guess then that Giratina acts in the Pokémon world much like Cerberus would in the Greek mythological version of the Underworld. It's a guardian who keeps the dead and the living seperate. It can apparently disappear into darkness at will, just like Darkrai can, given the Shadow Force move only it can learn. There appears to be a relation to Shaymin and Regigigas as well.

That leaves Arceus, Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf, Palkia, and Dialga. Sinnoh's legends state that an Egg appeared in a vortex of chaos, and from it Arceus was born. Arceus created Dialga and Palkia to create time and space, then created Azelf, Uxie, and Mesprit to create emotion, will, and knowledge. Arceus then went to sleep, apparently in the Hall of Origin, an area in Sinnoh directly above the Spear Pillar where dimensions would shift, allowing Arceus to appear.

With the creation of time, space, will, knowledge, and emotion, it seems to me that these five would create Regigigas (who would in turn create Regirock, Regice, and Registeel as guardians), Groudon, Rayquaza, and Kyogre (who would shape the pieces of the world and guard them, with Regigigas putting those pieces together). To keep the balance, Dialga and Palkia would leave for the alternate dimension with Arceus, while Mesprit, Uxie, and Azelf would sleep in the Sinnoh Region. Arceus apparently left Plates behind, telling its story so as not to be forgotten. If that's correct, then it's only natural that Arceus has the Multitype ability. Because those Plates came from Arceus, putting them back on Arceus would unlock a change. And yes, Arceus would have to be a "god" in order to create a universe and other "gods" to create other forces and guard them.

Since no world could have existed before time and space did, it's perfectly possible that Mew was the first Pokémon who actually originated from this planet, and from Mew, the rest of the Pokémon not mentioned in this post.

That's my take on it.
I'll continue where he left off.

Manaphy and Phione appear to be just rare Pokémon, one of which can home in on some ancient ruin. Also, now that we know where Dialga and Palkia were fighting in The Rise of Darkrai, we can say that the Unown were created, but sealed in the "dream dimension".

Remember Pokémon 3? Molly would fall asleep, then appear as a more adult version of herself. She'd make crystal Poké Balls appear, from which she could summon whatever Pokémon she wanted. In other words, the Unown were creating a space rift that caused Molly's dreams to become part of reality.

So that makes three realms so far. Our dimension, the dream dimension, and the space between them where Dialga and Palkia battled. They'll probably leave it at that.
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Old February 26th, 2008 (12:55 PM).
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About manaphy/phione, theoretically correct. Im not gonna say you're wrong because the capability to breed denies it of its legendry status. However i still have a suspicion that there's more two them.
As for the other points, they are based on the movies which i disagree with, too many contradictions.
About the dimension with DP, i have to disagree. I think arceus would have shoved them in a paralell universe, not relative in location to universes accesible to humanity (The idea of their segregation is that they are to be kept away from people/pokemon/whatever)
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Old February 26th, 2008 (1:18 PM).
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Considering you can't travel to other dimensions in the games, the anime is the only authority we have there.

Remember, when Darkrai's Bad Dreams were getting to everyone after Palkia's light show, they appeared as part of reality? Even Alberto became a Lickilicky. Remember also that the Unown were fleeing from Dialga and Palkia's battle in the space between dimensions, and it's already been established that the Unown can travel into whatever dimension they like. In Pokémon 3, the Unown turned Molly's dreams into reality.

Based on that, we can say that there are three dimensions - reality, dreams, and between - and that the hiding place of Arceus is between them, where neither dreams nor reality can reach. Given the Hall of Origin in the games, Arceus should have the ability to transcend dimensions, just like the Unown, Palkia, and Dialga.
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Old February 27th, 2008 (8:10 AM).
The Confuzzler The Confuzzler is offline
 
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hi guys! im back! anyhow so there is three dimensions! cool!

i agree Gofre i dont think phione and Manaphy are legendary either.

and there must be more than two of them i mean think how many eggs there must have been
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Old February 27th, 2008 (11:26 AM).
Shiny Pichu Shiny Pichu is offline
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Your all taking about every single legendary but your missing out jirachi.
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Old February 27th, 2008 (11:31 AM).
Unlimited NiGHTS Unlimited NiGHTS is offline
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Your all taking about every single legendary but your missing out jirachi.
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Jirachi awakens once for a week every millennium. I'd hate to take a nap for that long only to be awake for a week. Anyway, Jirachi doesn't really relate to any other Pokémon, it's just there for you to stick a note on and cry since you most likely won't live long enough to see the wish fulfilled.
orly?????? r u shur?????? no wai!!!
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Old February 27th, 2008 (11:36 AM).
Shiny Pichu Shiny Pichu is offline
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orly?????? r u shur?????? no wai!!!
Oh wow one post?? want a ****ing medal?? You down-syndromed 5 year old.
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Old February 27th, 2008 (11:47 AM).
Unlimited NiGHTS Unlimited NiGHTS is offline
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Oh wow one post?? want a ****ing medal?? You down-syndromed 5 year old.
You shouldn't talk about yourself like that. My point is, we've already covered everything there is to cover about Jirachi, so yeah, there's no point in continuing that discussion.
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Old February 27th, 2008 (2:39 PM).
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Yay shiny pichu is gone, he annoyed me lol

And yeah, what WOC (Where did he go, he was a voice of reason around here)said about jirachi is right, but a more in depth idea (AKA random rambling :P) was made by yours truely a while back:

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Erm, frozen meteorite? Wha? I have a different theory:
*Cresselia is born of dreams and Darkrai of nightmares. I reckon jirachi could make both come true
*It grants peoples wishes, it doesnt say they are necersarrily nice wishes (Eg kill my step-dad :P), presented through doom desire

Orrrrrrrr:
*Jirachi is linked to the beings of will, emotion and knowledge. The elf of desire could quite easily be related to the other 3. On top of that, look at the sprites: They all have two tails, their bodies are similar shades of gray, amd they are generally the same shape (Except the head, which is different on all 4).

Thats my two-pence, let me know what you think. Very little is known about jirachi, so there are no solid theories.
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Old February 28th, 2008 (1:07 PM).
Parasol Kirby Parasol Kirby is offline
 
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I think the legends stay "legendary" until you get to the competitive section of the game, then they just become strong pokemon.
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Old February 28th, 2008 (1:18 PM).
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I think the legends stay "legendary" until you get to the competitive section of the game, then they just become strong pokemon.
Pretty much, but its up until that point this thread is intended to discuss. Once you get into it there's a much stronger narative than at first glance (*GivesFlamersEvils*)
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Old February 28th, 2008 (1:26 PM).
Unlimited NiGHTS Unlimited NiGHTS is offline
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I think the legends stay "legendary" until you get to the competitive section of the game, then they just become strong pokemon.
This has nothing to do with the discussion.

As for Jirachi, I doubt a connection to Mesprit, Azelf, and Uxie. It's possible that the mirage trio were somewhat based on Jirachi by the creators, but for the actual legends, I doubt that Jirachi is connected.
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Old February 28th, 2008 (10:08 PM).
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Hey guys, I return? So what's been talking about now? I want a say in something now C: ♥
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Old February 28th, 2008 (11:33 PM).
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Lets do the legendary beasts. What is their connection with Ho-oh? Why do the legends say they are unique but yet you can catch them in so many different places?
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Old February 28th, 2008 (11:48 PM).
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I think it's utter crap the way Gamefreak expresses Kyogre and Groudon as "creators of land and sea." Not to mention it contradicts Arceus' info, which said it "created" all. If that's true, then what did Kyogre and Groudon do? It's stupid how Gamefreak tries to make Arceus look like God himself.

It's a pathetic insult to our God himself. It's also a no wonder why Christians hate the Pokemon series so much, I should know, I'm Christian (yet I don't really hate Pokemon) and my whole family is too. They all frown upon me playing the game but I don't mind since I don't worship the characters or anything.
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Old February 29th, 2008 (12:04 AM).
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I think it's utter crap the way Gamefreak expresses Kyogre and Groudon as "creators of land and sea." Not to mention it contradicts Arceus' info, which said it "created" all. If that's true, then what did Kyogre and Groudon do? It's stupid how Gamefreak tries to make Arceus look like God himself.

It's a pathetic insult to our God himself. It's also a no wonder why Christians hate the Pokemon series so much, I should know, I'm Christian (yet I don't really hate Pokemon) and my whole family is too. They all frown upon me playing the game but I don't mind since I don't worship the characters or anything.
we have already discussed this.......
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Old February 29th, 2008 (12:37 AM).
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Ohh... sorry ._.

And well about the Legendaries... they stop being legendary once you realize there's about 15,000,000 Zapdos in total world wide.
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Old February 29th, 2008 (12:44 AM). Edited February 29th, 2008 by The Confuzzler.
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Ohh... sorry ._.

And well about the Legendaries... they stop being legendary once you realize there's about 15,000,000 Zapdos in total world wide.
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]yeah :) i realised that it practicaly makes zapdos a rare pokemon not a " legendary " although ive not been on Serebbi in a long time so maybe its an Uber now but not so sure....[/COLOR]

that feelllttt gooodddd :)
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Old February 29th, 2008 (3:50 AM).
Unlimited NiGHTS Unlimited NiGHTS is offline
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Lets do the legendary beasts. What is their connection with Ho-oh? Why do the legends say they are unique but yet you can catch them in so many different places?
This has already been covered. Suicune, Entei, and Raikou were created by Ho-Oh when the Brass Tower in Ecruteak City was burned down. They now serve as the judges of the human race, literally racing across vast distances to observe and judge humans. They report back to Ho-Oh, who travels the skies.

Ho-Oh returned to the Tin Tower when you defeated/captured all three legendary dogs, remember? That's because only someone truly pure of heart, such as the character you played as, could defeat/capture the legendary dogs. Ho-Oh noticed all three falling in battle, and came to test your heart.

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I think it's utter crap the way Gamefreak expresses Kyogre and Groudon as "creators of land and sea." Not to mention it contradicts Arceus' info, which said it "created" all. If that's true, then what did Kyogre and Groudon do? It's stupid how Gamefreak tries to make Arceus look like God himself.

It's a pathetic insult to our God himself. It's also a no wonder why Christians hate the Pokemon series so much, I should know, I'm Christian (yet I don't really hate Pokemon) and my whole family is too. They all frown upon me playing the game but I don't mind since I don't worship the characters or anything.
Not quite. Kyogre and Groudon did create the oceans and landmasses, respectively. But they were created by either Mew or Palkia, in order to bring life into this world, and those two were created by Arceus (unless Palkia created Mew at least).

As for the whole Christian bit, I'm also Christian, yet I don't see this as an insult. You see, there are many who consider our faith to be one big contradiction, even though it's really not.
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Ohh... sorry ._.

And well about the Legendaries... they stop being legendary once you realize there's about 15,000,000 Zapdos in total world wide.
If the game calls it a "legendary Pokémon", then it is.

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[COLOR="DarkOrange"]yeah :) i realised that it practicaly makes zapdos a rare pokemon not a " legendary " although ive not been on Serebbi in a long time so maybe its an Uber now but not so sure....[/COLOR]

that feelllttt gooodddd :)
First, Veekun is better than Serebii could ever hope to be. Second, Zapdos is OU right now. Finally, never do that again.
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Old February 29th, 2008 (7:29 AM).
The Confuzzler The Confuzzler is offline
 
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This has already been covered. Suicune, Entei, and Raikou were created by Ho-Oh when the Brass Tower in Ecruteak City was burned down. They now serve as the judges of the human race, literally racing across vast distances to observe and judge humans. They report back to Ho-Oh, who travels the skies.

Ho-Oh returned to the Tin Tower when you defeated/captured all three legendary dogs, remember? That's because only someone truly pure of heart, such as the character you played as, could defeat/capture the legendary dogs. Ho-Oh noticed all three falling in battle, and came to test your heart.



Not quite. Kyogre and Groudon did create the oceans and landmasses, respectively. But they were created by either Mew or Palkia, in order to bring life into this world, and those two were created by Arceus (unless Palkia created Mew at least).

As for the whole Christian bit, I'm also Christian, yet I don't see this as an insult. You see, there are many who consider our faith to be one big contradiction, even though it's really not.


If the game calls it a "legendary Pokémon", then it is.



First, Veekun is better than Serebii could ever hope to be. Second, Zapdos is OU right now. Finally, never do that again.
yeah i'll never do that again! iot was just as kinda 1 off thing ;) and yeah im christain too and i dont see it as insult either and neither do my parents or my sister
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Old February 29th, 2008 (7:48 AM). Edited February 29th, 2008 by lonewolfx44.
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lonewolfx44 lonewolfx44 is offline
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Hmm, I don't know if they are real or not. I just played the games. Everyone in the pokemon world seems so naieve, in general, so I think they would believe the myths and even create them because they seem so stupid. So they may not be real.
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Old February 29th, 2008 (10:35 PM).
Unlimited NiGHTS Unlimited NiGHTS is offline
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Originally Posted by lonewolfx44 View Post
Hmm, I don't know if they are real or not. I just played the games. Everyone in the pokemon world seems so naieve, in general, so I think they would believe the myths and even create them because they seem so stupid. So they may not be real.
Oh, it's not like we believe the legends. We know very well that Pokémon is 100% fiction. It's just that Pokémon legends are fun to analyze and talk about.
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Old March 1st, 2008 (3:29 AM).
Minos Yewman Minos Yewman is offline
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This has already been covered. Suicune, Entei, and Raikou were created by Ho-Oh when the Brass Tower in Ecruteak City was burned down. They now serve as the judges of the human race, literally racing across vast distances to observe and judge humans. They report back to Ho-Oh, who travels the skies.

Ho-Oh returned to the Tin Tower when you defeated/captured all three legendary dogs, remember? That's because only someone truly pure of heart, such as the character you played as, could defeat/capture the legendary dogs. Ho-Oh noticed all three falling in battle, and came to test your heart.
Then why can you catch them in pkmn colosseum and catch one of them in Kanto. In gold/silver all you need is the rainbow wing, you don't even need to awaken the dogs. There is also more than one Ho-oh. I think your one could be right but only in Johto. The dogs are basically rare pokemon who shared a common ancestor but adapted to suit the enviroment. The ones in Johto may be special as they were brought back to life by ho-oh.
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