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Old June 2nd, 2008 (4:58 PM).
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Aquilae Aquilae is offline
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There would be still a viable strategy as I mentioned in my first post - IPL's JollyWobb, PP wasting with Encore. Tickle would not change Wobbuffet much.

@ above poster

Hippowdon needs Choice Band to even stand a chance of OHKOing Garchomp with Ice Fang.
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Old June 2nd, 2008 (5:05 PM).
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Either I inspire people to post stuff or people hate me, haha

I haven't battled on the official in awhile, besides when my alt. account decides to work, so these new Wobby developments mean I about give up on its OUness (lol). Considering I never use it or face it, put it in ubers for all I care :P This jollywobb sounds scary though, and considering I still run majority stall teams, I might actually support this one :0

Still think Garchomp is OU, even though I doubt Ice Fang will be OHKOing Garchomp ._. Even then, it's hard to tell with our really shaky uber definition (as it is controversial), so I suggest we just drop it and leave the tiers be until we can accurately measure if Garchomp is good enough (or over centralizing enough) to be banned. I certainly don't think so, but that's the problem - it's objective in a pretty big way.

But eh, Jolly Wobbuffet sounds too powerful for my stall teams, so out of my own selfish nature (:P) I might as well jump on the bandwagon. I still don't think either one is "ZOMG BROKENz0rz!!!!!!" because even if both are uber, it's close enough that we're debating it, after all.
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Old June 2nd, 2008 (5:07 PM). Edited June 2nd, 2008 by Thebiggamer.
Thebiggamer Thebiggamer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquilae View Post
Hippowdon needs Choice Band to even stand a chance of OHKOing Garchomp with Ice Fang.


Mine has 1HKO'd 2 of them at least and the rest it takes huge chunks out of



I just did a damage calc. and a 0 IV/EV hippo with a neutral nature will do at least 55% to a 31 IV 0 EV neutral garchomp and my hippo has much higher than 0 IV as well as some attack EVs invested so it's totally possible for a 1HKO
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Old June 2nd, 2008 (5:23 PM).
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Standard Hippowdon

31/31/31/31/31/31

Standard Garchomp

31/31/31/31/31/31
4 HP

capiche?

Hippowdon switching onto SDChomp = death to Hippo as SD Outrage 2HKOes it easily - it can't KO back with Ice Fang.

Switching in another pokemon that can stand a chance of OHKOing Garchomp - Cresselia or Swampert for instance - is arguably a better way of dealing with SDChomp.

Overcentralise =/= too powerful
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Old June 4th, 2008 (2:42 PM).
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lol so, Ooka has moved Garchomp back to OU! Does that mean I could use him again on PC forum? =D
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Old June 4th, 2008 (3:10 PM).
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Well, it's technically now up to whoever you're battling :P *Limbo*
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Old June 7th, 2008 (4:37 PM).
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With May usage statistics out, I think we should iron out OU and BL here. Here is unweighted usage:

Garchomp (42139 usages) 1
Gengar (35712 usages)
Blissey (34844 usages)
Gyarados (31594 usages)
Tyranitar (31091 usages)
Bronzong (29681 usages)
Lucario (26596 usages)
Heatran (24325 usages)
Infernape (22927 usages)
Salamence (22649 usages) 10
Metagross (21948 usages)
Starmie (21344 usages)
Gliscor (19725 usages)
Celebi (19303 usages)
Swampert (17907 usages)
Weavile (17274 usages)
Skarmory (17083 usages)
Forretress (16339 usages)
Heracross (15455 usages)
Vaporeon (14110 usages) 20
Zapdos (13389 usages)
Azelf (13132 usages)
Togekiss (12624 usages)
Cresselia (12425 usages)
Magnezone (10991 usages)
Electivire (10972 usages)
Dusknoir (10737 usages)
Machamp (10446 usages)
Breloom (10418 usages)
Jirachi (10195 usages) 30
Suicune (10177 usages)
Snorlax (10020 usages)
Yanmega (9602 usages)
Scizor (9420 usages)
Hippowdon (9330 usages)
Jolteon (9024 usages)
Ninjask (8925 usages)
Milotic (8919 usages)
Tentacruel (8779 usages)
Deoxys-e (8395 usages) 40
Mamoswine (7932 usages)
Dragonite (7867 usages)
Porygonz (7646 usages)
Dugtrio (7610 usages)
Donphan (7383 usages)
Roserade (7117 usages)
Wobbuffet (6546 usages)
Spiritomb (6353 usages)
Gallade (6032 usages)
Alakazam (6019 usages) 50
Abomasnow (5752 usages)
Kingdra (5631 usages)
Umbreon (5415 usages)
Empoleon (5391 usages)
Charizard (5352 usages)
Mismagius (5083 usages)
Weezing (4778 usages)
Crobat (4313 usages)
Rhyperior (4269 usages)
Froslass (4267 usages) 60
Slowbro (3800 usages)
Tangrowth (3791 usages)
Smeargle (3653 usages)
Sceptile (3644 usages)
Aerodactyl (3613 usages)
Steelix (3471 usages)
Uxie (3217 usages)
Arcanine (3202 usages)
Staraptor (3123 usages)
Ambipom (3004 usages) 70

-----------------

The rest of the list I'm not really gonna post since those are all BL or UU. Basically I'm saying that we should pick a number where everything used more than that pokemon is OU and everything else banned from UUs will be BL.

I'm sure Smogon has that number, but I r=don't really know. either way, given those stats, we should probably change OU/BL accordingly.
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Old June 10th, 2008 (2:40 PM).
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Has the NU tier died?

I cannot seem to find a DPP NU tier list. Even Smogon lists the old NU Pokemon as UU.

Have the new moves/abilities killed the NU tier?

And if not, where can I find a list of Pokemon from that tier?
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Old June 10th, 2008 (10:59 PM).
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NU tier has been condensed into UU. It was never really a tier anyway, unless you lass two magicarp equivilants flaling at each other for a few turns. So the remotely usable ones have been put into UU but most people have the common sense not to use them at all.
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Old June 11th, 2008 (1:49 AM).
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While what Gofre said is true, there's still a possibility of they stabilishing a NU tier.
But it's Smogon's priority to first stabilish a stable OU and UU enviroments, so that may take a while.

edit; Also, I disagree with the "most people have the common sense not to use them at all". I'm an UU player, and I use Masquerain, Mothim and Carnivine with great success, and have used stuff like Kecleon and Lumineon to an extent.
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Old June 11th, 2008 (5:55 AM).
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I agree with the above two posts but i don't really see any use for an NU tier anyway. Even if no one is using certain pokemon in the uu tier what does it matter. uber keeps pokemon deemed to powerful out of OU, BL keeps pokemon that are to strong out of UU, but what does NU do? keep the weaker pokemon out of UU? There is no real use for an NU tier unless u wanted to have an NU battle. and NU isn't really a metagame that gets to much use anyway. So to answer your question NU hasn't died there will always be pokemon that most people don't use but it is not in top prority for smogon or anyother site for that matter to establish a tier that doesn't often see play.
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Old June 11th, 2008 (7:18 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviruchi View Post
While what Gofre said is true, there's still a possibility of they stabilishing a NU tier.
But it's Smogon's priority to first stabilish a stable OU and UU enviroments, so that may take a while.

edit; Also, I disagree with the "most people have the common sense not to use them at all". I'm an UU player, and I use Masquerain, Mothim and Carnivine with great success, and have used stuff like Kecleon and Lumineon to an extent.
The NU tier has been and gone, I doubt it will come back again. Oh and iirc none of those pokes were ever NU.
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Old June 11th, 2008 (7:46 AM).
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This is in the wrong forum, but since it has already been answered...

-Locked-
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Old June 15th, 2008 (12:54 PM).
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Unlocking this thread and merging it with the Tier Discussion thread.
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Old July 1st, 2008 (12:46 AM).
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Just an opinion, but bu current standards I believe Porygon2 should be moved to OU and Porygon-Z should be considered for BL. There are many other pokemon that do what P-Z does better. (This is why Blaziken is BL, because Infernape does everything better)

~T_S
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Old July 1st, 2008 (3:21 AM).
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OU - used a lot

UU - used very little

BL - pokemon banned from UU

Ubers - pokemon banned from OU

NU - pokemon not used in UU

Learn your tier definitions. Pory2 is nowhere near OU.
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Old July 1st, 2008 (4:13 AM).
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Really, not used often you say? I've seen it in almost every team on Shoddy the past few weeks, more often than Blissey or Garchomp. (Seriously)

I missed the boat on P-Z though, I apologize.

~T_S
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Old July 2nd, 2008 (8:22 AM).
Nosliw87 Nosliw87 is offline
 
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Hmm im new here, but i just wanted to ask a question.. Why is abomasnow in OU? His stats are decent at best, and he has a ton of weaknesses. Sure hail+ blizzard is deadly, but with its poor speed it can be knocked out/disabled before it can use it. i personally dont like it, can someone explain why its there? Im using one in diamond and the E4 always pwn it xD. Also Garchomp owns. nuff said =P
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Old July 2nd, 2008 (8:23 AM).
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Abomasnow is OU because it is commonly used to start hail teams.
Its constant hail also means any non-ice takes damage, and that its 120Power Blizzard is 100% Accuracy STAB.
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Old July 2nd, 2008 (8:26 AM).
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Hmm i see your point. I guess it can be usefull in certain situations. Thanks for the fast reply!
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Old July 2nd, 2008 (8:28 AM).
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Sure thing.
I constantly stalk the D/P section xD
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Old July 3rd, 2008 (7:29 AM).
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Ok, so if im correct due to reading stark mountain on smogon, according to the thread called "The new OU list", Wobbuffet is now uber again, so you could get rid of it, like now =D. I would link, but you cant link to other forums and its not that hard to find.
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Old July 9th, 2008 (7:20 PM).
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Eh? I like Umbreon, but tons of people are saying he's no longer OU in DP...
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Old July 9th, 2008 (8:23 PM).
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Nope, he isn't. He's lost a lot of power since 3rd gen.
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Old July 10th, 2008 (5:39 AM).
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My main concern is Nidoking in the UU tier. I don't feel Nidoqueen belongs there either, but my main focus is on Nidoking. Why they should be in BL:
• Stats:
Most Pokemon in the UU tier have one or more mediocre stat. They cannot play in OU because they are either too slow, too fragile, or too weak. At 85 Speed, it can outspeed just about anything that could OHKO it in the UU, and at 92 Attack and the general low defense of these UU Sweepers, it could easily OHKO it in turn. Nidoking's lowest stats are its Defenses at 77 and 75. That's still a respectable amount, and it means that nuetral hits are pointless, as they can't OHKO or probably even 2HKO Nidoking. Nidoqueen's Defense stats are in the 80's while her Attack stats are still balanced in the high 70's. Keep in mind, other Pokemon have stats as high as the Nidos, but they lack elsewhere.

• Movepool:
Nidoking's Movepool is BL material. Earthquake, Megahorn, Stone Edge, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt. With respectable 85 and 92 Attack stats, Nidoking can easily OHKO or 2HKO anything in the UU without loosing a whole lot of health. Nidoqueen's movepool is also good, and Smogon even comments that she can easily compete against Lucario, Skarm, and others in OU.

• Counters:
Nidoking and Nidoqueen don't really have any counters unless you know their exact moveset. Smogon says, "--- works well against a Nido set without ---." Most of Nidoking's listed counters are OU or BL, anyway.

• Typing:
With Nidoking's type combination, it resists Bug, Fighting, Poison, and Rock (I hope I didn't leave anything off), is completely immune to Electric (very common type in UU), and is only weak to types that are more common in OU than in UU. (Ice, Ground, Psychic, etc.)
 

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