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Old April 2nd, 2008 (1:21 PM). Edited April 3rd, 2008 by Sora_8920.
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Like DA's Bulky Mence, (thanks again for that, DA.) I have decided to test out Bulky Nite on Shoddy. This is test Thread, so people can test it / give opinions, commetns, etecetera.

Quote:
Originally posted by me in another thread:

Oh yes, one thing I didn't get a chance to do this morning when I rated your team is give insight on Dragonite. I didn't get a chance to, though, because I was going to school.

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 200 HP / 152 Def / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake
- Outrage / Dragon Claw. This thing has a disadventage from Bulky Mence, as it doesn't have Intimidate capabilities. One trait it does, have, however, is being a tad bulkier. (15 base defense boost, and 20 Special Defense boost). Yache Berry could help it survive weavile's Ice Punch / Shard. I'll test it on Shoddy and see how it does. If you can, fit Roost on Bulky Nite. T-Wave also helps.
I would also thank Smarties / Blueberry if either one of them approved of this thread.

Comments / Opinions / Tests on Shoody are appreciated.

Credits:

Anti-Pop.

Dark Azelf, (for the inspiration.)

And Nameless, for the EVs.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (2:44 AM).
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I have some questions.

Firstly, what does this do better than Bulkydos/Mence? Secondly, what do the EV's help against? If you gave us some Calcs on the reasoning for the EV's, and why you chose the moves etc, maybe it would be easier to base a discussion.

In all seriousness, I think this should be posted in the "Ask for a Moveset" thread, or w/e it's called.

~T_S
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (3:15 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortured_Soul View Post
I have some questions.

Firstly, what does this do better than Bulkydos/Mence? Secondly, what do the EV's help against? If you gave us some Calcs on the reasoning for the EV's, and why you chose the moves etc, maybe it would be easier to base a discussion.

In all seriousness, I think this should be posted in the "Ask for a Moveset" thread, or w/e it's called.

~T_S
I would've, but I was being lazy. And I have to go to school right now, so when I get back. EDIT: I'm not to good at running the calcs, anyways.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (3:26 AM).
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Then this thread won't go too far. We need some sort of basis to work from.

~T_S
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The Bank Vault - An XY Trade Thread

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Old April 3rd, 2008 (5:59 AM).
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I think I'll replace my Bulkymence with that Dragonite and see how it goes. I might fiddle with Roost/T-wave in there as well.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (6:12 AM).
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I thought of something like this a while ago. Although to be honest, it was just DDNite with a BulkyDos spread. I would have put some more thought into the EVs, but then I noticed that he didn't have Intimidate, meaning there really wasn't anything special that he did.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (11:04 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airconditioning View Post
I thought of something like this a while ago. Although to be honest, it was just DDNite with a BulkyDos spread. I would have put some more thought into the EVs, but then I noticed that he didn't have Intimidate, meaning there really wasn't anything special that he did.
Well, I'll test it and see how it does. And Ariconditioning, Dragointe is bulkier, if you read. It doesn't have to have Intimidate for the thing. THIS is overcentalization. For something to be bulky, you're saying it has to have Intimidate?
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (11:12 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itachi 2008 View Post
Well, I'll test it and see how it does. And Ariconditioning, Dragointe is bulkier, if you read. It doesn't have to have Intimidate for the thing. THIS is overcentalization. For something to be bulky, you're saying it has to have Intimidate?
No that is not over centralization......over centralization is when every team MUST use said pokemon to counter another said pokemon, this has nothing to do with that.

Dragonite gets Heal Bell and Roar, they could be considered...
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (11:13 AM).
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No, I'm saying that if he doesn't have Intimidate, what's the point of using him over Bulky Gyara?
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (11:32 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airconditioning View Post
No, I'm saying that if he doesn't have Intimidate, what's the point of using him over Bulky Gyara?
Dragonite is more powerful, has a stronger STAB, and much better power/coverage combined. Nite is also less prepared for and is tougher to beat in general.

That being said, it lacks intimidate and can't take a hit quite like Gyarados can. The EVs are also a jumbled mess (they don't even add up right >.>) and there is nothing in this thread that really makes a case for Dragonite. If you're going to make a thread, don't be lazy - that's wasting our time.

Also, T_S, it is very hard to take you seriously with the Mudkip theme (jk, I'm just saying that's the most not funny joke in existence, second to none). <<<lol

Really though, this is just standard DDnite with new EVs (once they're fixed...) It reminds me of DDgyara with a 252 Atk / 252 Spd spread vs. a bulky Gyara - they're a same thing in different packaging.

That being said, I do love DDnite and making it bulkier couldn't hurt. Just be sure it can distinguish itself from other bulky Dragon Dancers.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (12:30 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-Pop View Post
Dragonite is more powerful, has a stronger STAB, and much better power/coverage combined. Nite is also less prepared for and is tougher to beat in general.

That being said, it lacks intimidate and can't take a hit quite like Gyarados can. The EVs are also a jumbled mess (they don't even add up right >.>) and there is nothing in this thread that really makes a case for Dragonite. If you're going to make a thread, don't be lazy - that's wasting our time.

Also, T_S, it is very hard to take you seriously with the Mudkip theme (jk, I'm just saying that's the most not funny joke in existence, second to none). <<<lol

Really though, this is just standard DDnite with new EVs (once they're fixed...) It reminds me of DDgyara with a 252 Atk / 252 Spd spread vs. a bulky Gyara - they're a same thing in different packaging.

That being said, I do love DDnite and making it bulkier couldn't hurt. Just be sure it can distinguish itself from other bulky Dragon Dancers.
Thanks, Anti. So, I have to fix the EVs?
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (12:37 PM).
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Use Garchomp =P

Basically not too shabby, but whats it... gonna take about 2-3 Ice Beam/Ice Punch then fall? Of course you could get a Dragon Dance on the switch, but it needs to get as much coverage as possible if it's going to be doing that. A Ghost-type like Dusknoir could switch in and either Pain Split/Will-o-Wisp/Ice Punch. Since Skarmory is much more common, I'm going to say the moveset seems OK. Work the the EV spread now, if it isn't going to get any more boost in attack power other than it's nature, that will be a problem.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (12:54 PM).
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I have to ask...what exactly are the EVs for? As in, justify why they are where they are.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (1:05 PM).
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EV's should be spread in the best and most sparing way possible, 252 from 152 EV's do NOT make too much of an extreme difference, about 30+ stat.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (2:47 PM).
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Quote:
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EV's should be spread in the best and most sparing way possible, 252 from 152 EV's do NOT make too much of an extreme difference, about 30+ stat.
Ah. Thanks, Nameless.

@ Anti, It's supposed to be "Bulky." hence, the title.

But yeah, without Intimidate, like airconditioning said, this thread doesn't have a point.

And T_S is right.

But It's your decision, Mod's, close, or stay.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (3:10 PM).
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Well obviously it's supposed to be bulky. I may be stupid, but I'm not THAT stupid. I mean, why are the EVs where they are specifically? They just seem jumbled up and random.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (3:27 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-Pop View Post
Well obviously it's supposed to be bulky. I may be stupid, but I'm not THAT stupid. I mean, why are the EVs where they are specifically? They just seem jumbled up and random.
I'd rather take this to PM, but w/e. I can't get EVs from Smogon, and making up EVs is just stupid... So where am I supposed to get the EVs?
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (3:28 PM).
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I avoided thhis thread for this particular reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortured_Soul View Post
Then this thread won't go too far. We need some sort of basis to work from.

~T_S
What is this thread supposed to be about? What is the point? Are you saying it's too good, because you'll need calcs to prove that. Or are you just curious on DDNite with a bulky Gya set? What's to "discuss", is what I'm asking. I'm reading through the thread, and it seems nobody else really knows.

EDIT: You make the EV's yourself. If it has something to do with this thread, don't take it to PM.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (3:30 PM).
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I'd rather take this to PM, but w/e. I can't get EVs from Smogon, and making up EVs is just stupid... So where am I supposed to get the EVs?
Make them...O_O I can do it for you, depending on what you want it to outspeed, survive, and OHKO/2HKO.

Also why would we take this to PM? It's an important question to ask...as we so often preach, you cannot win without EVs. You cannot win with terrible EVs either.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (3:30 PM).
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I avoided thhis thread for this particular reason



What is this thread supposed to be about? What is the point? Are you saying it's too good, because you'll need calcs to prove that. Or are you just curious on DDNite with a bulky Gya set? What's to "discuss", is what I'm asking. I'm reading through the thread, and it seems nobody else really knows.

EDIT: You make the EV's yourself. If it has something to do with this thread, don't take it to PM.
That's what I did, Sims. <.< EDIT: Anti, that would be great.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (3:32 PM).
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Well they have to be good, know where you need help and we can help. Obviously there is a communication breakdown of sorts here >.>

Also, is that quote in your sig really fair when your EV spread is no better? I swear, the "hilarious quote" epidemic is going to be the downfall of the universe >.>

Anyways, I can make EVs when I know the information I listed in my last post.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (3:33 PM).
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I still didn't get an asnwer. What is this thread about? Are you just curious on DDNite? Cause I don't see what's to really discuss. I mean, if you need help on Nite, fine, but I don't see much to talk about.
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (3:39 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-Pop View Post
Well they have to be good, know where you need help and we can help. Obviously there is a communication breakdown of sorts here >.>

Also, is that quote in your sig really fair when your EV spread is no better? I swear, the "hilarious quote" epidemic is going to be the downfall of the universe >.>

Anyways, I can make EVs when I know the information I listed in my last post.
Well, to be bulky, obviously. And should I run Attack EVs? EDIT: I do kind of need help. =P
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Old April 3rd, 2008 (4:31 PM).
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Quote:
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I still didn't get an asnwer. What is this thread about? Are you just curious on DDNite? Cause I don't see what's to really discuss. I mean, if you need help on Nite, fine, but I don't see much to talk about.
What he means is that he simply wants an opinion on whether it is an option to use over the likes of BulkyGara. (My problem still stands that he has no reasoning for the EV's, they are random, and the fact he hasn't really given us any idea on what it is meant to be countering etc.)

For your EV's, you want to be aiming to get maximum effect. (i.e. Garchomp outruns what it needs to with 224 Spd EV's, and it can survive an Ice beam (depending on said opponent) with the remaining in HP, where as by making Spd 252, it cannot survive Ice Beam, but will not outspeed anything else)

That is why you see people running damage calcs. Find the standard set for a pokemon that you want to beat. For instance:

[email protected]
Adamant
212 HP, 16 Atk, 136 Def, 144 Spd

Dragon Dance
Taunt
Waterfall
Stone Edge

Notes: The reasoning for the 144 spd EV's allows Gyarados to outspeed common threats such as Timid Gengar and Adamant Weavile after a Dragon Dance. Running more speed EV's will not help in any way, but will hinder your chances of surviving by detracting from your defenses.

What Anti wants is for you to compile a list of pokemon you want Dragonite to counter, so he can aim for some stats to reach. (i.e. He wants to know how many EV's he should give to have the maximum effect)

That is why Smogon's EV's are so used, is because they (in their opinion) give the best chance to counter what is needed. That is why sometimes people will say "252/252/4 spreads aren't that crash hot" et cetera.

So yes, you need to compile a list of pokemon you are wanting to counter, so that Anti may run the neccessary calcs. (Or I could do it...)

Regards,

~T_S

P.S. I liek Mudkipz Anti...:P (It's temporary, I was just bored so I made it...)
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The Bank Vault - An XY Trade Thread

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Old April 3rd, 2008 (4:41 PM).
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Thank you for actually answering, rather than sucking up for brownie points by begging one member for help. I don't even see the point of not having any attack invested. DDance needs something to work with. Now he can get help for others, rather than trying to get in with a particular member.
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