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Old April 5th, 2008 (7:17 PM).
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Ok, I'm still trying to figure out what's best to do with EVs too, so this thread is pretty interesting to me.

What if he'd spread out his EVs? Put like 110 in attack, 100 in speed, 100 in HP, and 100 in def and sdef? So he'd have a semi-bulky dragonite ^^"

Personally, I often feel very tempted to spread out my EVs. I reason to myself "hmm if I put some EVs in HP/def/sdef then my pokemon might be able to survive three rounds instead of two."

Math-wise do EVs spread out like this make a difference in pokemon performance (is 25 stat points enough to make a pokemon survive an extra hit?) or do you really need to max out the given EV to 252 to make a big enough difference?
Although even I (in my infinite n00bness) can easily see one would want to focus EVs on a pokemon that's only about attacking fast (I guess weaville might be an example of this... I'd just do 252 attack, 252 speed, and 6 HP for that guy), but I'd feel pretty tempted to try to make my dragonite even more survivable (since he's already sort of bulky to begin with) by spreading the EVs around a bit.
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Old April 5th, 2008 (7:23 PM).
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No, you miss the point. Spreading the EV's out doesn't help here. You look at common threats to this set of Dragonite and how you can manouevor the EV's so that it has a better chance. (i.e. Remove 36 Atk EV's into defense to help survive a CB Heracross Megahorn from 2HKO, while those Atk EV's don't make any difference to what Dragonite is able to KO in return.)

Basically, you're trying to maximize what you have. As an example I gave, the standard Bulkydos runs 212HP/16Atk/100 Spd/180Def. Now, if you run 212HP/16Atk/144Spd/136Def, Gyarados is now able to outspeed common threats such as Timid Gengar and Adamant Weavile after 1 Dragon Dance, while still being able to take hits effectively.

The basic problem with running a Bulkynite set is that the reason Gyarados and Salamence are used is because they have Intimidate. Dragonite doesn't have this, so wasn't originally considered.

~T_S
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Old April 5th, 2008 (7:32 PM).
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The thing with Dragonite is that its stats are VERY similar to Gyarados (very high attack, aerage speed, good SDef, decent Defense, pretty good HP) only Dragonite has much higher SAtk while gyarados has Intimidate, as well as the differneces in defensive typing.

If you ask me, the set, EVs, and Bulky Dragonite in general should be able to distinguish itse4lf from Gyarados, as well as Salamence. One thing Dragonite has is a much better STAB than either one and doesn't have to rely on an ability as much as them to take hits.

With that in mind, I think the set, nature, EVs, and everything about this pokemon should reflect these strengths.

I'm totally swamped from the final four games though, so me actually giving examples would not be a good idea.
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Old April 5th, 2008 (7:32 PM).
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Don't know if it's been said yet or not, but Dnite doesn't get Taunt, thus leading to it getting phazed much easier, thus fail....
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Old April 5th, 2008 (7:34 PM).
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Hey Anti, do you have an idea on what this 'BulkyNite' should be aiming to survive/beat? I can run the calcs then to get the EV's for it.

~T_S
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Old April 5th, 2008 (7:35 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ooka View Post
Don't know if it's been said yet or not, but Dnite doesn't get Taunt, thus leading to it getting phazed much easier, thus fail....
DDnite is stricly for late-game sweeping, so PHazers are out of the way and most can't take a DD Life Orb Outrage anyways, and what can doesn't necessarily like the rest of its movepool options.

I'm sorry, but that post to me implies that DD users have to have Taunt to be good, which isn't true at all. Dragonite can beat PHazers by attacking them anyways (yeah, Skarmory doesn't like Fire Punch or Fire Blast very much).

EDIT: this is Itachi's thread, I've been waiting for him to tell me what things it should survive. I'm good at making EVs with the proper info.
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Old April 5th, 2008 (7:37 PM).
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Life orb? O_o

I thought we were talking about the Bulky Set in the first post....
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Old April 5th, 2008 (7:43 PM).
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I see your point.

Even without Life Orb, Nite gets PHazed, it comes back in and DDs, and then...gg.
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Old April 5th, 2008 (7:45 PM).
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I'm definitely going to see how this EV spread works for me.
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Old April 5th, 2008 (7:53 PM).
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Originally Posted by Supreme Dirt View Post
I'm definitely going to see how this EV spread works for me.
Don't, they only add up to 400.

In other words, the EVs are terrible and that's our current problem, our #1 priority.
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Old April 5th, 2008 (7:54 PM).
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I'm good at making the EV's too, but I also need the info. :P

Ok, how about:

[email protected]
Bold/Impish
252 HP, 128 Spd, 32 Sp. Def, 96 Def
Inner Focus

Roost
Thunder Wave/Heal Bell
Ice Beam/Ice Punch
Dragon Pulse/Dragon Claw

Max HP + 32 Sp. Def lets it survive a Choice Scarf Gengar's Hidden Power ICE. 128 Spd outspeeds Gliscor, who can Taunt to cause problems I suppose. Roost is self-explanitory, Thunder Wave provides team support and helps with the lack of Dragon Dance, with Heal Bell helping Dragonite with status, making up for no Taunt. The Attacking options depend on what you want to KO really.

Other Options:

Dragon Dance can be considered, but this set is more focused on team support. Using Dragon Dance would mean less need for Speed EV's, so you could pump more into defense. Earthquake is nice for Tyranitar and Metagross, but will be 2HKO'ing, so you would need to on the switch. Fire Blast/Punch can be considered if you have Skarm/Forry problems, as well as coverage over Bronzong.

Ice Punch vs Ice Beam:

Well, Ice Beam helps to take threats such as Gliscor, Hippowdon, Donphan etc. Ice Punch OHKO's Garchomp, where as Ice Beam doesn't without EV investment.

~T_S
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Old April 5th, 2008 (7:59 PM).
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I little idea popped into my head...Reflect would be an interesting option and would more than make up for Intimidate, while we could EV HP and SDef more to make it almost like a wall.

Also, I think focusing towards special attacks on a support set would be more wise, but both work (especially considering that Nite doesn't need as many EVs to power up its attacks with all that attack it has).

Really, I don't think we should even care about Garchomp since it won't be switching in on us (unless it's Scarfed, and the risk of taking a Dragon attack is still very great) and if we switch in on Garchomo we are just stupid.

Remeber, Flamethrower/Fire Punch offers far superior coverage and really does beat steels, who switch in on Nite just like bulky grounds, only we can stall those with Toxic and crap like that.

Speaking of toxic...that would be wicked cool on this set, and then a kind of Roost/Toxistall thing going on. I say we punish people who don't use Bellers. That and punish common switch-ins that can't take it and punish steels with flamethrower.
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Old April 5th, 2008 (8:01 PM).
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Ok, so...

[email protected]
Bold
252 HP, 128 Spd, 104 Sp. Def, 24 Def
Inner Focus

Roost
Reflect
Toxic
Flamethrower/Fire Blast

~T_S
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Old April 5th, 2008 (8:04 PM).
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One thing that I noticed is you're trying to compare this to BulkyDos, yet BulkyDos would murder it. I suggest TBolt or TPunch, depending on the nature you decide on.
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Old April 5th, 2008 (8:04 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortured_Soul View Post
Ok, so...

[email protected]
Bold
252 HP, 128 Spd, 104 Sp. Def, 24 Def
Inner Focus

Roost
Reflect
Toxic
Flamethrower/Fire Blast

~T_S
Don't see the need for speed EVs, Gliscor rarely carries Taunt, and when it does you can just switch out, scare it off, and when you come back in, predict it coming in and launch Toxic at it switching in. also, I would vote for flamethrower so you have some chance at stalling. Dragon Pulse is an option, but of course steels will wall you like always.
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Old April 5th, 2008 (8:04 PM).
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We also might not have to worry about Garchomp soon (It's on the verge of being moved to uber), in which case I will seriously add it to my main team.
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Old April 5th, 2008 (8:09 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ooka View Post
One thing that I noticed is you're trying to compare this to BulkyDos, yet BulkyDos would murder it. I suggest TBolt or TPunch, depending on the nature you decide on.
Not really, just trying to show the other person why and how we EV pokemon. Bulkydos was just my example, because I have experience with it...

I want to know...Can Starmie OHKO Dragonite with Ice Beam? I mean, does the standard (Bulky or w/e) run enough to OHKO? T-Bolt may be an option.

[email protected]
Bold
252 HP, 104 Spd, 128 Sp. Def, 24 Def
Inner Focus

Roost
Toxic
Reflect
Flamethrower

104 Spd outspeeds Adamant Tyranitar.

EDIT: Combine this with Magnezone to remove Steels and you have yourself a potent staller here. We could then remove Flamethrower for something else like Dragon Pulse etc.

I CALL IT.....MAGNITE! :P

~T_S
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Old April 5th, 2008 (8:15 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ooka View Post
One thing that I noticed is you're trying to compare this to BulkyDos, yet BulkyDos would murder it. I suggest TBolt or TPunch, depending on the nature you decide on.
How Gyarados and Dragonite would do one on one is irrelevant and that wasn't even the comparison I was making, it was just in their stats. Besides, this isn't even meant to sweep. I don't really see what Thunderbolt would be doing besides hitting bulky waters, and toxic doesn't do any of them any favors.
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Old April 6th, 2008 (4:15 PM). Edited April 6th, 2008 by Who is Beelane LOL.
Who is Beelane LOL Who is Beelane LOL is offline
 
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What about:

[email protected]
Calm Nature
252 HP, 104 Spd, 156 Sp. Def
Inner Focus
- Reflect
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch
- Dragonclaw

Start off with Reflect, do a DDance or two, then sweep?
I mean.. it could survive some hits before it starts DDancing, then when it's got it's speed boosted it can outrun and sweep? The leftovers would heal his HP while sweeping? Idk.

Or an annoying Nite:

[email protected]
252 HP / 100 Def / 152 Sp. Def
Bold
- Roost
- Attract/Thunderwave
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
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Old April 7th, 2008 (5:26 PM). Edited April 7th, 2008 by Lalapizzame.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who is Beelane LOL View Post
What about:

[email protected]
Calm Nature
252 HP, 104 Spd, 156 Sp. Def
Inner Focus
- Reflect
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch
- Dragonclaw


Start off with Reflect, do a DDance or two, then sweep?
I mean.. it could survive some hits before it starts DDancing, then when it's got it's speed boosted it can outrun and sweep? The leftovers would heal his HP while sweeping? Idk.

Or an annoying Nite:

Dragonite@Brightpowder
252 HP / 100 Def / 152 Sp. Def
Bold
- Roost
- Attract/Thunderwave
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
First of all,Brightpowder is banned so,no.Calm only hinders it.Dragon Claw,Fire Punch and Dragon Dance do not match a Calm nature.This is horrible advice.Same with Bold nature.Dragon Claw gets weakened and Attract just fails and it relies a lot on luck.
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Old April 8th, 2008 (4:52 PM).
Who is Beelane LOL Who is Beelane LOL is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalapizzame View Post
First of all,Brightpowder is banned so,no.Calm only hinders it.Dragon Claw,Fire Punch and Dragon Dance do not match a Calm nature.This is horrible advice.Same with Bold nature.Dragon Claw gets weakened and Attract just fails and it relies a lot on luck.
I meant Careful Nature, and I have never used Brightpowder before so I didn't know that.

Off my back, breh
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Old April 8th, 2008 (7:47 PM).
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Lalapizzame Lalapizzame is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who is Beelane LOL View Post
I meant Careful Nature, and I have never used Brightpowder before so I didn't know that.

Off my back, breh
Oh,I won't blame you for it then.No harsh meaning there.:nervous:
Careful Nature?It might be good.Who knows?It might help you survive that Ice Beam so you can KO back with Outrage/Dragon Claw right?:tired:
 

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