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Old April 9th, 2008 (6:05 PM).
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Again, please try not to argue about religion. I know it's hard, as this involves so much of it, but try to avoid disputes.

I'm liking your ideas. I'm seeing how opinions really differ from person to person. Opinions come from the individual more than anything. I'm leaning more and more towards the idea of letting the prisoner choose between the death sentence and life in prison.
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Old April 10th, 2008 (2:22 AM). Edited April 10th, 2008 by doesn't matter.
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What she said^ No one really cares about your religious beliefs, or lack thereof. It sounds preachy and only serves to encourage the sort of arguments I generally detest i.e. religious arguments.

Mind you Jaimes (and a whole heap of other people who reside in this forum), reading the entire bible literally and/or with fundamental views is a dumb thing to do and only makes you look foolish, whether or not you are a practitioner of the faith.

Anything else regarding the matter can be discussed via PM. Note that this is not an invitation to argue about religion. Now just talk about the death penalty, please?
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Old April 10th, 2008 (8:21 AM).
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I totally agree with capital punishment. If you deny other people human rights you do not deserve them yourself. The case should be unanimous though, or at least a small sentense to give time for new evidence to be brought forwards.
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Old April 10th, 2008 (8:31 AM).
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I believe in capital punishment. I believe it is needed. I would go into further detail on why I believe in it, but that would require discussing religion, which I wont.


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Old April 10th, 2008 (8:41 AM).
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I'm inclined to say that I agree with capital punishment for people who have intentionally taken the lives of others, but the more I think about it, I think that capital punishment might be an 'easy way out' for criminals. What better way to make them pay for their wrong-doings than by forcing them to live in a prison with the knowledge of what they have done for the rest of their lives? However, I feel that prisons need to be more like prisons. I don't know if this is the same in other countries, but in the UK, prisoners get television, playstations, xboxes, and money. How the hell is that a punishment? But I'm getting off-topic now, so I'll shut up about that ^^

So, basically, I think that capital punishment is a no, but that murderers should be forced instead to live in squalid prisons for the rest of their lives, with a 'life sentence' actually meaning life, not just eight or nine years.
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Old April 10th, 2008 (9:06 AM).
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Prison is meant to be punishment but its obviously not working in England so I feel we need more methods. Capital punishment is a way that will stop them for ever which is needed. I'm not against. "Eye for an Eye" as the bible says. Let the victum or victums family choose the punishment
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Old April 10th, 2008 (9:10 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanacross View Post
Prison is meant to be punishment but its obviously not working in England so I feel we need more methods. Capital punishment is a way that will stop them for ever which is needed. I'm not against. "Eye for an Eye" as the bible says.
It's not that it doesnt work, its that our justice system is hypocritical and spends more time on petty fines and ends up letting the thousands of knife-thugs out there free. But yeah, we need it badly. Im not sure putting killing and the bible together is all too logical though :)
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Old April 10th, 2008 (1:15 PM).
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Originally Posted by Gofre View Post
Im not sure putting killing and the bible together is all too logical though :)
It works, the problem is that it's human nature to only pick out the stuff that suits us and ignore the rest. So where it said "Eye for eye" the government took it. Where Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" the world ignored it. But anyway... :P

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However, I feel that prisons need to be more like prisons. I don't know if this is the same in other countries, but in the UK, prisoners get television, playstations, xboxes, and money. How the hell is that a punishment? But I'm getting off-topic now, so I'll shut up about that ^^
Well I could see the Playstation being punishment... :P I think it's so they don't go nuts. I mean, even with all that, they still have bad living conditions, they still aren't allowed to do anything else...
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Old April 10th, 2008 (1:34 PM).
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Prisons cost to much. Houseing criminals for 1 year costs about £56,000.
This comes from tax payers money. Now if a crook is in prison for 10+ years thats £560,000 Why waste it when if thier crime is serious enough to lock them up for 10 years, why not find another punishment?

This is a punishment for tax payers. I don't want to spend my money on them scum. Why should I? I would rather it go to my and your healthcare.
How about we bring lynching back? A mod with sticks and stones handing them.
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Old April 10th, 2008 (1:45 PM).
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Okay, Zenacross. I'm sure the African-Americans will agree heartedly with you.
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Old April 10th, 2008 (1:52 PM).
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I know. Wouldnt help a thing really. But CP in england would be better then wasteing money
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Old April 10th, 2008 (6:27 PM).
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None of you 'get' the fact that the poor are at a lower state of mind due to malnutritution and thus should be treated like animals.
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Old April 10th, 2008 (7:42 PM). Edited April 10th, 2008 by doesn't matter.
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You don't get the fact that people are responsible for their own actions. No matter what, you always have the final say in what you do. It's just that simple. There are few, few exceptions of people being mentally insane and committing heinous crimes.

I'm going to call that a trolling, in any case. I very much hope that that is not your true take on things.

As for us not discussing this religiously, it dulls the conversation. This thread becomes "do you believe the death penalty should be used? Yes/No."

I think religion plays a crucial part in discussions like this. Religion, or lack thereof, plays a major part in many people's moral code. To dissallow religious discussion is to prohibit people from providing reasons for their viewpoint.

Amachi says: Do you not understand that I said to discuss this via PM?
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Old April 14th, 2008 (9:36 AM).
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Without capital punishment to enforce the law how are the poor going to bring themselves up by their bootstraps?
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Old April 14th, 2008 (9:50 AM).
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None of you 'get' the fact that the poor are at a lower state of mind due to malnutritution and thus should be treated like animals.
Wow, i dont even know how to describe that other than arrogant and ignorant. I suppose you have a detailed knowledge of maltrition? Because, for lack of a better example, I dont see too many anorexics running round like 'animals'.
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Old April 14th, 2008 (9:52 AM).
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Why do you favor coddling savage criminals who would just as soon rape and murder you and your family as look as you? America needs a new war on crime. We can't fix these things with welfare or even jobs programs.
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Old April 14th, 2008 (9:56 AM).
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No but I'd rather it be that people are all treated equally, because everyone who commits murder is just as deserved of captial punishment as each other, regardless of social status. I've just read through your arguament and you talk about lower class like a seperate degenerate species, which in my opinion is pretty despicable.
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Old April 14th, 2008 (9:57 AM).
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Equal treatment doesn't work. By any chance, Gofre have you read the book 'The Bell Curve'? It's about how IQ differences cause differences in social outcomes. I'd reccomend reading that book since any sound anti-crime or immigration policy would take into account IQ differences between classes and groups.
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Old April 14th, 2008 (10:00 AM).
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Regardless of IQ, you said it yourself, its social outcome. The outcome of a political leader stabbing someone is the same outcome as a homeless man stabbing someone- They have commited murder and need to be punished. You cannot tell me social standing makes them any less deserved of punishment?
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Old April 14th, 2008 (10:02 AM).
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The social cost of executing a wealthy man is far more than that of executing a poor man. The poor are more or less expendable.
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Old April 14th, 2008 (10:05 AM).
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You didnt answer my question:
Is the rich man less deserving of lethal injection than the poor man?
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Old April 14th, 2008 (10:06 AM).
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Yes he is. The rich man contributes far more to the economy and society than a poor man. Those poor who aren't expendable are the ones who get out of poverty via pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
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Old April 14th, 2008 (10:20 AM).
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Even if a rich man contributes to society, and the poor man doesnt, that money still goes into the economy one way or another. A poor man will not get a job because someone else beat him to it, so the money he would submit still ends up in the economy. That money's not going to disappear, its just distributed more evenly.

I'm not a religious man, but a life is a life. If you take someone elses human rights, you do not deserve your own.
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Old April 14th, 2008 (10:57 AM). Edited April 14th, 2008 by Jaimes.
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Yes he is. The rich man contributes far more to the economy and society than a poor man. Those poor who aren't expendable are the ones who get out of poverty via pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
Just a few points, I'd like to add...
  1. So you're saying; even if someone has a committed a crime worth that of a highest penalty, based upon their income/ inheritance they should be allowed back into society because they supposedly "contribute to it more"? What about rich people that don't 'contribute'? What about well off murderers?

  2. You think that the death penalty should be freely passed out, to 'poorer' individuals for small crimes. Any legitimate reason why? What about poor people who contribute like scientists, cleaners and firefighters?

  3. Have you realized how stupid your ideas are? Your sense of justice / improving society is plain dumb. I'm glad people like you don't have the intelligence to pass off as politicians... your views are comparable to that of a modern-day Hitler.
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Old April 14th, 2008 (12:20 PM).
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Thankyou Jaimes, you've restored my faith in humanity :P
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