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Old April 20th, 2008 (2:32 AM).
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Originally Posted by sims796 View Post
Wobbuffet causes problems to every team. There is nothing that can be done about it. Saying Wobbuffet can come in and cause problems makes no sense, as it can come in and trap any pokes out there. And nothing can be done.
Actually if Wobblyfoot gets Toxicked (new word) you can stall him out of HP, if he switches, he's gonna have to come back in on SR/Spikes later.

@TS - Starmie's Pursuit weakness is worrying me, esspecially with Cressy, too.

So we need a sturdy spinner, the half-viable options are:
Blastoise, Tentacruel, Hitmontop, Starmie, Kabutops, Forretress, Donphan and Claydol.

I would pick Tentacruel, but Blastoise is an option, as Starmie and Claydol have problems with Weavile. Blastoise can also use Haze. Just a suggestion...
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Old April 20th, 2008 (2:48 AM).
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Really? So every pokemon must carry Toxic? I don't wanna turn this into a Wobbo conversation, but those are half arsed ways of beating it. It can come in on those that CANNOT use Toxic, and since you can't swich, easy pickings for him. People tend to forget about his ability, and the fact that the human player will be smart enough to use it wisely, not on it's counters.
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Old April 20th, 2008 (6:28 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sims796 View Post
Really? So every pokemon must carry Toxic? I don't wanna turn this into a Wobbo conversation, but those are half arsed ways of beating it. It can come in on those that CANNOT use Toxic, and since you can't swich, easy pickings for him. People tend to forget about his ability, and the fact that the human player will be smart enough to use it wisely, not on it's counters.
sims, I strongly feel this is not the place to discuss about Wobbuffet. I apologise if my post made this RMT veer off-topic. Tickle Wobbuffet is pretty much a non-issue in WiFi, and the Shoddy staff are considering a ban on event moves such as this.

From what I see, Toxic Spikes would really benefit this team. I feel that Forretress or Tentacruel should be added to the team, the latter being able to act as a pseudo-Toxic Spikes remover. If laying down Toxic Spikes is a priority, leading with Forretress or Tentacruel might work.

Maybe Skarmory over Hippowdon? As far as I see, no one on your team really likes taking Sandstorm much except Jirachi. Sandstorm might allow Moonlight on Cresselia and using it as an alternative physical wall for Garchomp, while Skarmory can set up SR or Spikes, working just as well as Hippowdon.

If Skarmory is used then Snorlax should use Fire Punch.
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Old April 20th, 2008 (8:14 AM).
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Surprise surprise, Jirachi is the weakest link! REAL shocker there...as in, fire away suggestions.

Also, considering it's impossible to counter Wobbuffet (literally, Shadow Tag FTL) I'm not going to worry about it. Really, Wobby's standing in the OU tier is a total joke.

I'm thinking that maybe I should just stick with Forretress over Jirachi. Toxispikes could be cool and I really do miss the Spikes it provided. My only problem would be their lack of ability to recover off damage. Otherwise, I don't see any problem with switching things up.

Hippowdon...I don't really care if SS hurts my team in all honesty. Hippo is there because it is probably the best bulky ground type in the game.

Skarmory...ew. You see, attackers...yeah, I'm not so good with those. I'll ask you guys to come up with solutions, I'm finished thinking lol
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Old April 20th, 2008 (9:33 AM).
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Originally Posted by Aquillae View Post
sims, I strongly feel this is not the place to discuss about Wobbuffet. I apologise if my post made this RMT veer off-topic. Tickle Wobbuffet is pretty much a non-issue in WiFi, and the Shoddy staff are considering a ban on event moves such as this.

From what I see, Toxic Spikes would really benefit this team. I feel that Forretress or Tentacruel should be added to the team, the latter being able to act as a pseudo-Toxic Spikes remover. If laying down Toxic Spikes is a priority, leading with Forretress or Tentacruel might work.

Maybe Skarmory over Hippowdon? As far as I see, no one on your team really likes taking Sandstorm much except Jirachi. Sandstorm might allow Moonlight on Cresselia and using it as an alternative physical wall for Garchomp, while Skarmory can set up SR or Spikes, working just as well as Hippowdon.


If Skarmory is used then Snorlax should use Fire Punch.
First off, we weren't talking about Wobbo, but rather how he doesn't need to prepare for it. I don't see what's so off-topic about that. I also say he should keep Hippo, or Sandstorm in general. It's a great move to help stalling, and Moonlight won't work much, due to the other side of the battle using Ttar so much.
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Old April 20th, 2008 (5:43 PM).
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If you want TS that much why not use Roserade? It can Rest and switch for a free recovery.
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Old April 20th, 2008 (6:03 PM).
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Then Weavile will crap all over my team :(

Honestly, I think going crazy with replacements has caused more problems than it has solved. I have standardized testing tomorrow, so I'll have a good hour after the test to brainstorm. Ick, I'll hopefully think of something.

EDIT: The idea of a defensive Deoxys-E came into my head...spiker FTW? It also counters MixApe and Gyarados and has access to instant recovery, something Cress can't say. I'll also have a decent way to take out Skarmory. Thoughts?
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Old April 20th, 2008 (6:25 PM).
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Are you talking about Deoxys-Speed form? I faced one, and if it didn't get Taunt out on me before my Weavile Swords Danced, then GG to me...luckily I did, and it died after many Night Slashes. since Recover couldn't stop it.

It could be an option. Spikes + Cosmic Tank = win.
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Old April 20th, 2008 (6:37 PM).
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Well, Speed Deoxys would leave me open to random MixMence sweeps and Weavile would still be a little bugger, but I would have one slot to work with to take care of that problem. Regirock anyone?

Anyways, Speed Deoxys would look something like:

Deoxys-E @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: Something stallish
lol Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Spikes
- Recover

Decent coverage, Spikes support, Mixape/Gya counter...what's not to love?
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Old April 20th, 2008 (6:58 PM).
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I would suggest Bold nature because Waterfalling Gyarados needs to be owned. Your best bet is a 2hko without investing sp.atk as it does...

Damage: 267 - 314
Damage: 69.53% - 81.77% to Bulkdos....Expert Belt, if you were desperate enough...

Damage: 319 - 375
Damage: 83.07% - 97.66% to Bulkdos. Mind the fact that this almost guarantees OHKOs on all quick Gyarados.

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Bold
252HP/168sp.def/88def (this set would give you 304HP, 258def, and 257sp.def I believe, plenty to let you take something like a non-boosted waterfall.)

Psychic
T-bolt
Spikes
Recover

I sorta BS'd that by going by max wild stats and making them look even. Hopefully it's a good suggestion. However, those stats only give you 396 max top speed without EVs, so you might wanna work off the EVs above if you wanna be quicker.
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Old April 20th, 2008 (7:14 PM).
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Well, D-E is in the works. Stillm I need help on that last slot more than anything. If I can get the right pokemon in there, this team should be solid. I was thinking Regirock - MixMence isn't a problem with boosted SDef, it can hammer Weavile, and it's an overall good pokemon.
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Old April 20th, 2008 (7:22 PM).
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Regirock also sorta makes Gyarados and Infernape tremble, barring the grass knot, but a quake back finishes the job.

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Careful
252HP/252sp.def/6atk

Stone Edge
Earthquake
Thunderwave/Toxic
Ice Punch/T-Punch/Explosion

Last two moves are just there. Rest/Sleep Talk if you want much of survivability, or just go BOOM!
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Old April 20th, 2008 (7:43 PM).
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I don't get you.. didn't you just say Weavile will crap all over your team?
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Old April 20th, 2008 (7:51 PM).
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Well, Regirock really doesn't fold to Weavile - even Brick Break does lol damage.

In case I didn't make things clear, the current lineup is:

Snorlax
Spiritomb
Hippowdon
Gyarados
Deoxys-E
Regirock?

And if you think Gyarados counter Weavile...I'm pretty uncomfortable with that as my counter.
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Old April 20th, 2008 (8:00 PM).
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Sure it does. Nothing Weavile has up its aresenal can take him out, plus he is weakened by Intimidate. At that, it folds to Bulydos. Bulky Water Dos must make it wet it's pants.
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Old April 21st, 2008 (5:39 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABYAY View Post
I would suggest Bold nature because Waterfalling Gyarados needs to be owned. Your best bet is a 2hko without investing sp.atk as it does...

Damage: 267 - 314
Damage: 69.53% - 81.77% to Bulkdos....Expert Belt, if you were desperate enough...

Damage: 319 - 375
Damage: 83.07% - 97.66% to Bulkdos. Mind the fact that this almost guarantees OHKOs on all quick Gyarados.

[email protected]
Bold
252HP/168sp.def/88def (this set would give you 304HP, 258def, and 257sp.def I believe, plenty to let you take something like a non-boosted waterfall.)

Psychic
T-bolt
Spikes
Recover

I sorta BS'd that by going by max wild stats and making them look even. Hopefully it's a good suggestion. However, those stats only give you 396 max top speed without EVs, so you might wanna work off the EVs above if you wanna be quicker.

[email protected]
Modest Nature
220 HP / 252 Sp.A / 36 Speed
Same set

Try that ;)
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Old April 21st, 2008 (7:20 PM). Edited April 21st, 2008 by flamehaze94.
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I'm liking the notion of switching Snorlax < defensively oriented Porygon2. Well, you're trading the aspect of instant recovery with Trace with overall better defensive capabilities of Snorlax sporting Thick Fat. Personally, I find the trade-off for Porygon2 more worthwhile imo.

Every else looks all fine and dandy.

Edit: nvrmind...just read this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-Pop
I'm going to make clear what I'm NOT replacing:

Hippowdon
Snorlax
Spiritomb
Gyarados
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Old April 21st, 2008 (8:13 PM). Edited April 21st, 2008 by Anti.
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It isn't just narrow-mindedness, but more of my fear of not haveing a special wall. My safe switch into Heatran and other pokemon will be gone. There's also the random CMers that break Blissey, Porygon-2, and other stuff.

Quite frankly, I think change has hindered this team more than it has helped it. Despite a few problems, it never lost in the 15 or so battles I used it in while the other one just got clobbered.

Ack, once I get some free time I can figure it out...like the torurous field trip we're going to embarck on tomorrow. *Groan*

EDIT: not that I was implying you said I was being narrow-minded ;) I word my posts so badly...
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Old April 23rd, 2008 (9:57 PM).
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Originally Posted by Anti-Pop View Post
It isn't just narrow-mindedness, but more of my fear of not haveing a special wall. My safe switch into Heatran and other pokemon will be gone. There's also the random CMers that break Blissey, Porygon-2, and other stuff.

Quite frankly, I think change has hindered this team more than it has helped it. Despite a few problems, it never lost in the 15 or so battles I used it in while the other one just got clobbered.

Ack, once I get some free time I can figure it out...like the torurous field trip we're going to embarck on tomorrow. *Groan*

EDIT: not that I was implying you said I was being narrow-minded ;) I word my posts so badly...
I liked the original team (minus Forry) better than the current one. Snorlax should definitely not be replaced by Pory2. It is one of the sturdiest things the team has and regardless of how much of a decent counter P2 could be for a few things, it just doesn't have that huge special sponging ability that Snorlax does. One thing to consider, though, Anti, is that Trace is actually a better Heatran counter, by Tracing Flash Fire, it loses its STAB attack and has nothing to hit P2 for Super-Effective... This still doesn't mean I support the change...

Totally and Utterly Off-Topic: When is Chomp's ban trial over?
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Old April 24th, 2008 (12:13 PM).
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I believe May 15th Archie...something around there.

Anyway, it's going to be pretty much impossible to counter EVERY pokemon out there, even as simple as it looks. It's just...not possible. Counter what majorly gives you trouble (instant threats), then work your way down.
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Old April 24th, 2008 (1:05 PM).
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You can counter everything. You just have to know how to make a team...and it is definitely a challenge.

I would...let this die. I'm making a few adjustments and I'll probably post a new thread.
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