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Old April 22nd, 2008 (10:50 PM).
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Glacier Glacier is offline
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Nidoking & Leftovers
252ATK/126DEF/126SPDEF/6HP Brave Nature
Earthquake
Megahorn
Rock Slide
Brick Break

Typhlosion & Leftovers
252SPATK/252SPD/6SPDEF Modest Nature
Flamethrower
Solarbeam
Sunny Day
Toxic

Staraptor & Focus Sash
252ATK/132SPD/126HP Hasty Nature
U-Turn
Brave Bird
Close Combat
Endeavor

Aggron & Leftovers*
252ATK/126DEF/126SPDEF/6SPD Jolly Nature
Dragon Claw
Metal Burst
Earthquake
Shadow Claw

Snorlax & Chesto Berry
252ATK/126DEF/126SPDEF/6HP Brave Nature
Belly Drum
Rest
Earthquake
Body Slam

Glaceon & Leftovers
252SPATK/252SPD/6HP Modest Nature*
Ice Beam
Mirror Coat
Shadow Ball
Water Pulse
*= Shiny
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Old April 23rd, 2008 (4:07 PM). Edited April 23rd, 2008 by Lalapizzame.
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Lalapizzame Lalapizzame is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
Nidoking & Leftovers Life Orb
252ATK/252 Speed/6HP Adamant Nature
Earthquake
Megahorn
Stone Edge
Brick Break/Focus Punch

Typhlosion & Choice Scarf
252SPATK/252SPD/6SPDEF Timid Nature
Flamethrower/Overheat
Eruption
Sunny Day
HP Ice

Staraptor & Focus Sash Choice Band/Scarf
252ATK/132SPD/126HP Hasty Nature
U-Turn
Brave Bird
Close Combat
Return/Double Edge

Aggron & Leftovers*
252ATK/126DEF/126SPDEF/6SPD Impish Nature Really don't know the EVs,sorry.
Stone Edge
Metal Burst
Earthquake
Stealth Rock

Snorlax & Chesto Berry Leftovers
252HP/252 SPDEF/6 Attack Brave Nature Careful/Adamant nature
Sleep Talk
Rest
Earthquake/Crunch
Body Slam

Glaceon & Leftovers Choice specs/Scarf
252SPATK/252SPD/6HP Modest Nature*
Ice Beam
HP Fire/Water
Shadow Ball
Water Pulse
*= Shiny
Whether it's shiny or not really doesn't matter so you don't need to put it there.
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Old April 23rd, 2008 (4:12 PM).
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Ooka Ooka is offline
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Well, hate to tell you, but each and every one of your Pokemon can get killed by a Hitmontop ._.
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Old April 23rd, 2008 (10:15 PM).
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Archer Archer is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Um, how do you expect to take hits? Snorlax has a very sad EV Spread, just like aggron. Your only Physical Wall has a 4x weakness to Ground and Fighting. Considering your team has 4 ground weaknesses and 3 to Fighting, this is a major problem. Some more advice: Don't whack 252 EVs on everything's dominant Attack stat. You really need to stop and rethink the entire team...
As for your sig, I find it hard to believe this team netted you 313 straight wins...
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Old April 23rd, 2008 (11:55 PM).
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Aquilae Aquilae is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
Nidoking & Leftovers
252ATK/126DEF/126SPDEF/6HP Brave Nature
Earthquake
Megahorn
Rock Slide
Brick Break


Nidoking gets taken down or walled by many of the common leads, and as such is not a good lead and not a good pokemon without a boosting item (base 92 attack).

I assume this is for WiFi? If so, Brave Nature is not good for Nidoking, as it is giving up its good base speed. I recommend you put a Heracross in place of Nidoking, as it completely outclasses it ability-wise.

Don't run Heracross as a lead.

Heracross @ Life Orb
Guts
Jolly, 252 speed, 252 attack 6 HP

Swords Dance
Megahorn
Stone Edge
Close Combat

Typhlosion & Leftovers
252SPATK/252SPD/6SPDEF Modest Nature
Flamethrower
Solarbeam
Sunny Day
Toxic


A Typhlosion with reliance on Sunny Day to set up a sweep is very bad. Sunny Day is unreliable and you're pretty much forced to use Flamethrower/Toxic to damage the opponent if Sunny Day is not up.

If you want to use Typhlosion, you should run the Choice Scarf set and use it as a lead.

Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf
Mild/Rash, 252 SpA, 144 Atk, 112 Spd

Eruption
Focus Punch
Overheat
Earthquake

Staraptor & Focus Sash
252ATK/132SPD/126HP Hasty Nature
U-Turn
Brave Bird
Close Combat
Endeavor


First of all, this is a bad set and EV spread. Staraptor really wants Max Speed, especially with its frail defenses. The common Stealth Rock is not helping, nullifying your sash.
Endeavor without a priority move is bad, considering Staraptor outspeeds most pokemon anyways so Endeavor will hit first while said pokemon downs you in a hit.

Staraptor works well with a Choice Band/Scarf, Max Speed & Attack, and Return > Endeavor.

Aggron & Leftovers*
252ATK/126DEF/126SPDEF/6SPD Jolly Nature
Dragon Claw
Metal Burst
Earthquake
Shadow Claw


The nature on Aggron is not helping it at all, and it has a bad EV spread.
You have to figure out the role of Aggron before making a set. Aggron will be hindered by its nasty weaknesses and low speed, and it can't sweep much with base 70 attack.

Gliscor/Skarmory would do well over Aggron.

Snorlax & Chesto Berry
252ATK/126DEF/126SPDEF/6HP Brave Nature
Belly Drum
Rest
Earthquake
Body Slam


Leftovers > Chesto Berry, and the chances of Snorlax sweeping anything after a BD, assuming you pull one off, are slim to none due to its non-existent speed.

Go with Sleep Talk > BD, and Sassy/Careful, with 244 HP/236 Special Defence/28 Defence.

Glaceon & Leftovers
252SPATK/252SPD/6HP Modest Nature*
Ice Beam
Mirror Coat
Shadow Ball
Water Pulse


Glaceon is not going to be threatening anything with base 65 speed, and its shallow movepool hinders it from doing much else.

Starmie > Glaceon as it could fix the great Garchomp/Gyarados weak your team has.
*= Shiny
Your original team is in bold. I suggest a complete revamping of this team, because 5/6ths of this team has bad movesets and your sweepers/walls are outclassed by many other pokemon.

As what Archer said, pretty glaring weaknesses, and your team is pretty much weak to any fast physical sweeper.
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Old April 24th, 2008 (9:03 AM).
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umbros umbros is offline
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Aquillae, jeez. Sounds a little harsh. This team could use some serious work. I agree with the common theme of "make it so not all of your pokemon have such similar weaknesses". Seriously, almost all of the fighting types in the game have a chance of running EQ, some EQ and Stone Edge. So, a fighting type with Earthquake could sweep your team after the Staraptor is gone. That's a bit too much to leave to chance.

I just don't agree with Aquillae on the suggestions for which pokemon to substitute in, as this seems to be a team themed mostly around UU tier pokemon, and those wouldn't fit in there. There's nothing wrong with using these pokemon, you just can't use them all together effectively.

So, I'd also recommend changing up the natures. I'm particularly fond of Aggron, no matter how unpopular he may be, but my tip is that anytime you're using Metal Burst, go with Relaxed nature. You'll actually want to lower your speed, as Metal Burst only works if you go second, and there are a few disturbingly slow pokes in UU. You'll still need to change up its other moves. Stone Edge is a must. I, along with pretty much everyone else here, will recommend the Rest-talking Snorlax over the Belly Drumming one. I'll avoid a ridiculously long post by only actually commenting on those two.
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Show everyone that you can be multi-talented, too. Fight using creative teams. Actually think out movesets. Do things people wouldn't expect. Use a few of your favorites, even if they're not the most popular choices. No single team is invincible, and eventually you'll figure that out when someone like me takes out your all-legendary roster with a team with a few underused pokemon in it.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (12:50 AM).
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Goldeneyes Goldeneyes is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
Nidoking & Choice Band
252ATK/252SPE/6HP Adamant Nature
Earthquake
Megahorn
Stone Edge
Sucker Punch

I prefer Brick Break over Sucker Punch but that is standard CB set.

Typhlosion & Leftovers
252SPATK/252SPD/6HP Modest/Timid Nature
Flamethrower
Solarbeam
Sunny Day
HP [Ice/Electric]

I prefer Timid nature to increase it's lower speed stat but modest is fine.

Staraptor & Choice Band/Scarf
252ATK/196SPD/60HP Adamant/Jolly Nature
U-Turn
Brave Bird
Close Combat
Double Edge/Return

Pretty self-explanatory moveset.

Aggron & Leftovers*
252ATK/168HP/88SPD Adamant Nature
Substitute
Focus Punch
Stone Edge
Thunderwave

SubPunching Aggron with Stone Edge for the pesky Flying-Types

Snorlax & Leftovers
120DEF/220SPDEF/168HP Careful Nature
Curse
Rest
Earthquake
Body Slam


Glaceon & Leftovers
252HP/252SPA/6SPE Modest Nature*
Ice Beam
Wish
Fake Tears
HP [Fighting]

*= Shiny
Edits in Bold.
You seriously need to rethink the team.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (2:39 AM).
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Aquilae Aquilae is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Posts: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by umbros View Post
Aquillae, jeez. Sounds a little harsh. This team could use some serious work. I agree with the common theme of "make it so not all of your pokemon have such similar weaknesses". Seriously, almost all of the fighting types in the game have a chance of running EQ, some EQ and Stone Edge. So, a fighting type with Earthquake could sweep your team after the Staraptor is gone. That's a bit too much to leave to chance.

I just don't agree with Aquillae on the suggestions for which pokemon to substitute in, as this seems to be a team themed mostly around UU tier pokemon, and those wouldn't fit in there. There's nothing wrong with using these pokemon, you just can't use them all together effectively.

So, I'd also recommend changing up the natures. I'm particularly fond of Aggron, no matter how unpopular he may be, but my tip is that anytime you're using Metal Burst, go with Relaxed nature. You'll actually want to lower your speed, as Metal Burst only works if you go second, and there are a few disturbingly slow pokes in UU. You'll still need to change up its other moves. Stone Edge is a must. I, along with pretty much everyone else here, will recommend the Rest-talking Snorlax over the Belly Drumming one. I'll avoid a ridiculously long post by only actually commenting on those two.
Umbros, most pokemon who use Fighting moves don't run Earthquake because it gives almost the same type coverage as Fighting and Rock.

I feel this is a problem I need to address concerning the viability of certain pokemon in OU. Face it, Aggron is not going to stand up against any strong Ground/Fighting move and survive to use Metal Burst. Snorlax, Staraptor and Typhlosion are OU/BL, so this team shouldn't be considered in the UU environment.
Staraptor can't take a Fighting hit without especially Bulky EVs even with Intimidate.

Okay, I didn't suggest a UU/BL pokemon over an OU because simply his team has no need for the niches that UU pokemon fill.

Comparing CBNidoking with CBHeracross:

Nidoking @ Choice Band
Poison Point
Megahorn
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Sucker Punch

Heracross @ Choice Band
Guts
Megahorn
Stone Edge
Close Combat
Pursuit/Night Slash

The sets are almost identical considering the similar type coverage Earthquake and Close Combat have, and Pursuit/Night Slash is arguably superior to Sucker Punch due to Sucker Punch relying on prediction, and the opponent will stop attacking once he/she has figured out what you are trying to do.

Heracross has higher attack and special defence, and Nidoking and Heracross are more or less similar in terms of speed, HP and defence. Nidoking's higher special attack is of no use in a physical attacker.
Nidoking's immunity to Poison and Thunder Wave is outclassed by Heracross' Guts, meaning a free attack boost.

So, here is the question:

Why would you use CBNidoking over CBHeracross in an OU environment?

It makes no sense to use an inferior over a superior.

This is arguably the best set for Nidoking in an OU environment - the Mixed Attacker.

Nidoking @ Life Orb
Naughty, 252 Attack, 168 SpA, 88 Spe
Megahorn
Earthquake
Ice Beam
Fire Blast/Thunderbolt

Its primary purpose is to take down walls, scoring super-effective hits on the likes of Cresselia, Skarmory and Gliscor.
TyraniBoah might seem to outclass this set at first glance, but Nidoking has the added immunity to Toxic and Thunder Wave allowing it to come in on status easily. Nidoking is also faster than Boah, allowing it to outspeed threats. It can also absorb Toxic Spikes too.

The choice of pokemon varies with the metagame. I can easily tell you that the UU metagame is very different from the OU metagame, the primary walls being Grass, Psychic, Rock/Steel like Aggron and a variety of other types.
If there was no imminent threat of Swellow and other strong Normal-types like it, Aggron would not be used.
The same cannot apply to the OU environment, where fighters and Earthquakers are much more common than UU. 8 out of the 10 most used pokemon in Shoddy will rape Aggron horribly. It becomes more worrying when Aggron isn't a good switchin to most pokemon with its long list of weaknesses.

In conclusion, UU pokemon can fill niches on a given team, but you should not try to use them like OU pokemon, as there is difference in metagame and it makes no sense in using an inferior over a superior.

Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but I wanted to outline some stuff that some people do not realise.


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