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Old April 26th, 2008 (9:27 AM). Edited April 28th, 2008 by luke.
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The Team

Poliwrath @ Damp Rock
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (Defense +, Attack -)

Waterfall
Brick Break / Focus Punch
Ice Punch / Rock Slide
Rain Dance

Persian @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Speed / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (Speed +, Attack -)

Swift
Water Pulse
Hypnosis
Nasty Plot

Qwilfish @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Speed
Adamant Nature (Attack +, Special Attack -)

Waterfall
Poison Jab
Explosion
Swords Dance

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 172 HP / 84 Speed / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (Special Attack +, Attack -)

Thunderbolt
Hidden Power [Ice]
Magnet Rise
Substitute

Mesprit @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SAtk
Bold Nature (Defense +, Attack -)

Psychic
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Rain Dance

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (Special Defense +, Attack -)

Surf
Ice Beam
Recover
Toxic / Light Screen
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Old April 26th, 2008 (10:23 AM).
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I actually prefer Bolt Beaming with Mesprit, it s a good counter to Gyarados who could very well be problematic, aswell as physical salamence and garchomp (Bar Choice band and SD Outrage sets =p).
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Old April 26th, 2008 (10:35 AM).
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This is probably the best team I've ever seen against Mixape. Physical Infernape is a bit more problematic though, so be careful of that.

I wouldn't replace Quilfish either considering it's your only decent line of defense against Heracross.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (11:22 AM).
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WHAT! MY team isn't the best at handliong Mixape! I thought we were friends...wah.

Anywhoo, kudos for Vaporeon & Rain Dance. Forgot about him. But you may want to consider Damp Rock. Using Dance less helps, and that extra 2 turns always did it for me.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (11:37 AM).
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Giving Kyogre a Damp Rock *Minigun'd for even putting those letters together*

The team lacks a very sturdy sponges. Forretress was a good mention earlier, receiving a useful weakened-fire bonus in the rain to help it out.

I saw this, and it caused havoc.

[email protected] Band
Adamant, Swift Swim
252atk/252spd/6HP (I don't know the set, but I know that's a considerable option for overkill on speed)

Waterfall
Stone Edge
Earthquake
X-Scissor (?) I didn't see his last move.

Waterfall in the Rain + CB = 2hkos Forretress...no joke. Swift Swim = everything dies. Just be wary of switch ins. I'd highly consider it because it breaks physical walls as well.

I really don't know of a huge special wall aside from Blissey or Snorlax, and Snorlax's abilty isn't going to help too much due to the rain, but it can absorb Ice. Hypno may be stretching it if this is to all tier battles *looks at Magnezone*
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Old April 26th, 2008 (12:00 PM).
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I know. I was considering Kabutops > Qwilfish, but Qwilfish was the sole reason for me trying out a Rain Dance team.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (12:06 PM). Edited April 26th, 2008 by Dark Azelf.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueberry View Post
I know. I was considering Kabutops > Qwilfish, but Qwilfish was the sole reason for me trying out a Rain Dance team.

My only query here is that your kinda light on the walling side of things, but you do have some useful resistances to work with.Reason being Im slightly concerned about Tyranitar coming in, it wrecks your rain and can DD UP and hurts.

Im thinking Swampert on here somewhere ?
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Old April 26th, 2008 (12:24 PM).
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Swampert @ Leftovers / Damp Rock
Ability: Torrent
EVs: ???
Relaxed Nature (Defense +, Speed -)

Earthquake
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Rain Dance

> Vaporeon. Do you think there would be a way to EV him so he can sponge Special-attacks better?
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Old April 26th, 2008 (12:29 PM).
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With the rain, Pert could use Surf since the weather would provide the power boost and more PP/Accuracy.

Anyways, Swampert statistically isn't the strongest defensively (90 Def/100HP) so SDef EVs probably aren't a really good idea. If you want a bulky water with special defense, Milotic is probably your best bet (or Suicune if switching into stuff isn't an issue).
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Old April 26th, 2008 (12:31 PM).
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Milotic doesn't help with my Tyranitar problem. I need someone who can hit Tyranitar hard and absorb hits. And how about replacing the Special Attack EVs on Mesprit for Special Defense EVs?
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Old April 26th, 2008 (12:36 PM).
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Swampert has trouble with Tar this generation. Its power loss is kind of ignored, but Pert really can't take boosted Crunches or even Earthquakes well at all.

Bulky waters really can't beat Tar all that well (though if you try one, Swampert is your best bet)...bulky grounds are better for that, as are a lot of steels. you could try Gliscor over Quilfish, who could deal with Tar AND Heracross. That'a about all I can think of right now :0
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Old April 26th, 2008 (12:43 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-Pop View Post
Swampert has trouble with Tar this generation. Its power loss is kind of ignored, but Pert really can't take boosted Crunches or even Earthquakes well at all.

Bulky waters really can't beat Tar all that well (though if you try one, Swampert is your best bet)...bulky grounds are better for that, as are a lot of steels. you could try Gliscor over Quilfish, who could deal with Tar AND Heracross. That'a about all I can think of right now :0

I agree with something to deal with hera aswell as tar, so as you said Gliscor would works fine.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (12:45 PM).
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Please, be careful of Ice Beam from T-tar if you use bulky Grounds.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (12:53 PM).
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Damage: 429 - 505
Damage: 125.44% - 147.66%

Waterfall with Swords Dance boost on 6 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar with no Rain.

Damage: 326 - 383
Damage: 95.32% - 111.99%

Waterfall with no Swords Dance boost on 6 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar with Rain.

Damage: 644 - 758
Damage: 188.30% - 221.64%

Waterfall with Swords Dance boost with 6 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar with Rain.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (1:00 PM).
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So, this is dependant on if you have a SD boost, huh? We KNOW rain won't be up at the time, at least if he switches in on you. I don't really see what those calcs prove. Doesn't really mean that it solves the problem.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (1:06 PM).
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Damage: 217 - 256
Damage: 53.71% - 63.37%

No Swords Dance Boost on 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar. If it switches in on a Waterfall, I believe it will outrun Tyranitar and KO it.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (1:12 PM).
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Far too many "if's" for my taste. If (damn) he is already out, what can ya do? That's the real question.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (1:32 PM).
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Vaporeon has been dead weight so far. And I definitely need something to wreck Tyranitar with.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (1:37 PM).
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Damage: 368 - 432
Damage: 91.09% - 106.93%

Back with Kabutops, this is its CB'd Waterfall vs. 252HP Tyranitar.

Damage: 460 - 541
Damage: 113.86% - 133.91%

This is same Kabutops with a CB'd Brick Break.

I wouldn't call it a counter, but it benefits from Sandstorm as well and can deal with it, but not on the switch.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (1:40 PM).
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If you're worried about Tyranitar, consider using Poliwrath, as he also threatens a 1HKO on TTar and gets boosted Waterfall from rain.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (1:46 PM).
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Poliwrath will have to pack a lot of atk EVs with a neutral nature (200, and that's about 98-114% with Brick Break), or 100 with a positive nature (same result) to ensure a OHKO, but no atk EVs and neutral nature still ensure a 2hko.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (1:52 PM).
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252 ATK/HP is the standard build anyway.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (1:53 PM).
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I truly agree with Poliwrath. Resisting almost evverything that Tar has.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (1:57 PM).
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Poliwrath over what though. I'm thinking Vaporeon.
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Old April 26th, 2008 (1:59 PM). Edited April 26th, 2008 by ABYAY.
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I thought Poliwrath ran defense as well. Anyway, with 252atk EVs and a positive nature, Brick Break does 94-110%, so that's a good chance of a OHKO. Waterfall won't even OHKO in the rain (75-88%), but both of these don't apply with any sort of damage boosting items (only Leftovers). Waterfall without rain may fail to 2hko (50-58%), so consider something like Expert Belt if you have to OHKO it.

[email protected]/Expert Belt
Adamant
252atk/252HP/6def

Brick Break
Waterfall
Hypnosis/Rock Slide
Rain Dance/Ice Punch

Last two moves are just some preference. If you need it as a Rain Dancer, then Hypnosis will help.
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