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Old April 26th, 2008 (1:40 PM).
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As I'm sure most of you know, I've tried two new things - using html and making a guide. I'd like your suggestions as to changes I should make for this (and pointing out grammar/spelling stuff).

There are errors, and I'm convinced of it...but I can't find them since I'm terrible at looking over my own work. So any suggestions are accepted.

Also, I'd like to de-Smogon-ize some of the EV spreads (cough Metagross cough) that aren't especially splendid. You'll see what I mean. Anyways, here's the link:

http://ouguide.pokelounge.com/

Have fun...tear it apart :)
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Old April 27th, 2008 (1:06 PM).
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Let's hear everyone's opinion and when all the kinks are worked out, we can revamp some of the guides.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (1:12 PM).
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Thank goodness youve posted this. I feel it will help greatly and give players and insight into the metagame and to actually know some of the standard sets they need to counter.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (1:18 PM).
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A few minor spelling errors here & there, nothing a bit of spell check can't ahndle. But my biggest issue is how alternative sets weren't discussed.

Oh, wait, you've added some.

Still, this guide is easier for an expert to understand, while certain things a newcomer would be confused with. Granted, those things are discussed in other guide around here, so it wouldn't be as necessary. I think a bit more threats could be disscused in greater detail, or even other lesser seen pokes. For instance, with all the time Blueberry made his thread, it was still vurnerable to Shedinja. But he will never see it.

But it possibly wouldn't be needed, since it IS a generic guide.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (1:23 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sims796 View Post
A few minor spelling errors here & there, nothing a bit of spell check can't ahndle. But my biggest issue is how alternative sets weren't discussed.

Oh, wait, you've added some.

Still, this guide is easier for an expert to understand, while certain things a newcomer would be confused with. Granted, those things are discussed in other guide around here, so it wouldn't be as necessary. I think a bit more threats could be disscused in greater detail, or even other lesser seen pokes. For instance, with all the time Blueberry made his thread, it was still vurnerable to Shedinja. But he will never see it.

But it possibly wouldn't be needed, since it IS a generic guide.
I agree with the bolded, for example i see Choice Band weavile, but no Sword Dance weavile. I think it needs more sets, just a few different standard sets for each pokemon.

But my first statement still stands, its still very informative.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (1:30 PM).
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Well... if you want it to be a guide it can't really have everything. Including more sets for every pokemon is very tedious and would be more like an info site, rather than a guide. It's up to whoever came up with this idea I guess.. you could make a special site just for this.. but then it's getting too similar to smogon, which already has an entire page of sets for each pokemon.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (1:30 PM).
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It's a nice guide, but a bit too vauge for my taste. Forget what I said about alternative pokes, as I just remembered, this was made specifically for OU.

I think it needs more lesser seen sets, though. I hate Flichkiss as much as the next guy, but a rookie may still run into it, unprepared. I remember being haxed to death by it when I was just starting. Dark surpised me with Flame Orb Hera.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (1:35 PM).
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Originally Posted by Syaoran View Post
Well... if you want it to be a guide it can't really have everything. Including more sets for every pokemon is very tedious and would be more like an info site, rather than a guide. It's up to whoever came up with this idea I guess.. you could make a special site just for this.. but then it's getting too similar to smogon, which already have a entire page of sets for each pokemon.
No, i didnt mean everything. I just meant 2 sets tops for each poke, for example he has CB weavile, then he could add SD Weavile and the go onto the next poke. Most pokemon dont run just one standard set, and i think it would be for the benefit of the reader that if he added just one more set to each to inform them better about what other sets the pokemon is capable of running. Thats what im getting at.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (1:41 PM).
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I'm going to defend the vagueness of my guide here.

Look at Mullet's OU Metagame guide in the 3rd gen compiled guides thing first. It's vague, but it does work, yes?

It would take up far to much space to post more sets and info on them, and it would take up time unnecessarily. As Sya said, it would just turn into smogon.

I did list useful resources at the bottom, and I did mention several times that it is a general guide and further research is going to be needed.

I'll probably have to add stuff to the dictionary since I mention the name "Missy" every other word, lol.

If I were to post ever set that is a threat to a team, it would take hours and hours of time I don't have. I did mention at the beginning that what I listed are the biggest threats, not just the only ones.

Of course, I'd be happy to emphasize these points more. I just don't think turning this guide into Smogon 2 would be a very good idea, especially since smogon would remain a better resource anyways.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (1:43 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guide
I. All-Out Offense

All-Out Offense teams are the total opposite of stall teams; they are made up almost entirely of sweepers and rely on resistances and the little walling they have to take hits. Despite being weak defenseively, these teams pack a devastating punch, so being able to take all of their hits is a big challenge, especially in today's fast-paced metagame.
*drools* :F Since the PM I sent you on this being added, I think this is exactly how to word it. A+
Exactly what I wanted to put in there. Thanks!

I find the guide just fine... great.

Maybe add a section on Metagame terminology? Might be an okay add. Not needed but would be nice for newer players to understand what some of the main terms are and such. I know we have the dictionary, but explains some other things, like calmcune, or something like that?
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Old April 27th, 2008 (1:45 PM).
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I have the dictionary for that, but it is incomplete. I could just link to the pokemon terminology section of our compiled guides, since we already have that information available.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (2:42 PM). Edited April 27th, 2008 by luke.
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Originally Posted by Anti-Pop View Post
I'm going to defend the vagueness of my guide here.

Look at Mullet's OU Metagame guide in the 3rd gen compiled guides thing first. It's vague, but it does work, yes?

It would take up far to much space to post more sets and info on them, and it would take up time unnecessarily. As Sya said, it would just turn into smogon.

I did list useful resources at the bottom, and I did mention several times that it is a general guide and further research is going to be needed.

I'll probably have to add stuff to the dictionary since I mention the name "Missy" every other word, lol.

If I were to post ever set that is a threat to a team, it would take hours and hours of time I don't have. I did mention at the beginning that what I listed are the biggest threats, not just the only ones.

Of course, I'd be happy to emphasize these points more. I just don't think turning this guide into Smogon 2 would be a very good idea, especially since smogon would remain a better resource anyways.
No, you misunderstanding what I'm saying. For one thing, you should emphasis how important it is that people should visit those sites. And you should have emphasised how much they should beware of alternative sets. This guide was informative enough, but not well presented.

Oh, I forgot to say. It might just be my Lap, but that banner saying STANDARD METAGAME GUIDE was very distracting, and got in my way a bit. Is that, you know, fixable?
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Old April 27th, 2008 (2:52 PM).
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Tangrowth
Tauros
Tentacruel
Togekiss
Torterra
Umbreon
:( Forgot to add T-tar.

I skimmed through most of it, and it's really impressive to tell you the truth. I'm looking forward to completely reading it.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (2:57 PM).
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I see it more as a first draft. Those are usually very good, but still has room for improvement.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (3:13 PM).
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No, you misunderstanding what I'm saying. For one thing, you should emphasis how important it is that people should visit those sites. And you should have emphasised how much they should beware of alternative sets. This guide was informative enough, but not well presented.
I agree with everything but what is underlined. This is probably the most organized and well-presented guide we have. It's neat and organized.

As I mentioned earlier, I would be happy to emphasize that stuff more.

As for the banner, that is fixable, but it would be useless. You can just use your arrow to scroll it our of view, so it shouldn't be a problem.

And as much as I like to hear there's room for improvement, I don't really know what to improve. So far, I'm going to:

- Emphasize further research as something of importance
- Put Tar on the threat list

And that's about it :0
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Old April 27th, 2008 (3:54 PM).
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I agree with everything but what is underlined. This is probably the most organized and well-presented guide we have. It's neat and organized.

As I mentioned earlier, I would be happy to emphasize that stuff more.

As for the banner, that is fixable, but it would be useless. You can just use your arrow to scroll it our of view, so it shouldn't be a problem.I couldn't, though. It stays there while you scroll, and I'm like "MOVE"! But not a cause to rush in and fix immediately.

And as much as I like to hear there's room for improvement, I don't really know what to improve. So far, I'm going to:

- Emphasize further research as something of importance
- Put Tar on the threat list

And that's about it :0
Oh, neat, but a tad confusing. For instance, you mentioned Metakid's calc. For all I know, what the hell is that? Plus, why should I go to smogon? What does it have? Just a sentence explaining what those sites could give would be nice.

The colors put me in the mood for a hot dog, though.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (4:22 PM).
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Get a better website at FreeWebs and a better layout at Aiiro. That's what I did. :O

That's all I can say. Describe your links a little bit further. That's it. ^o^
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Old April 27th, 2008 (5:43 PM).
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To be honest, I really am not going to take any suggestions for the layout since changing it would take too long and the current one is fine (not just fine, but very neat and organized.

I'm sending the update to Ooka. I emphasized further research, added Tar to the counter list, and described the links. Everyone happy? I also think I might link it to smogon's BL tier page to show other threats, and probably the UU one too. In fact, I'll add that now and THEN send it to Ooka.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (5:46 PM).
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The font kinda sucks.. just change it to Verdana or Tahoma so it's cleaner looking. =)
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Old April 27th, 2008 (5:49 PM).
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Oh, snippy. Just saw Family Guy? That episode put me in a bad mood, too.

That was my main gripe. Just the overall desrciptions of the reference sites. And I just ofund out how to remove the banner.
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Old April 27th, 2008 (5:57 PM).
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Font? Oh, I'm bad with those, lol. The font is okay-looking, but I like Tahoma so I'll try that. Too bad I already sent the update :( I'll just PM it to him again, lol.

Also, I'll show ya the descriptions...I'm not going to take out the coding, but it's easy enouggh to read past...and if it isn't, just ignore this.

<a name="23"><u><font size=5>5. Useful Resources</font></u></a><br><br>

<a href=http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/><font color=red>Smogon - DP Strategy Pokedex</font></a><br><br>

This is the best source for information on all of the pokemon used competitively. This pokedex gives you movesets, counters, and opinions on all kinds of different pokemon.<br><br>

<a href=http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/normalized_stats><font color=red>Smogon - Normalized Base Stats</font></a><br><br>

This article gives you useful information on how to translate base stats into how you should EV your pokemon, what moves to give them, etc.<br><br>

<a href=http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/maximizing_defenses><font color=red>Smogon - Maximizing Defenses</font></a><br><br>

This article gives you useful information on maximizing the defense(s) of your walls.<br><br>

<a href=http://serebii.net/games/mechanics.shtml><font color=red>Serebii - Game Mechanics</font></a><br><br>

This is a good place to go for info such as how much damage Grass Knot does to certain pokemon and how to get the eeveelution you want.<br><br>

<a href=http://serebii.net/pokedex-dp/><font color=red>Serebii - DP Pokedex</font></a><br><br>

Serebii's DP Pokedex is the best source for finding out movepool information and typing of all kinds of pokemon.<br><br>

<a href=http://www.metalkid.info/Pokemon/OnlineProgram/Calculators/DamageDP.aspx><font color=red>Metalkid - Damage Calculator</font></a><br><br>

This damage calculator gives you information on how much attacks from certain pokemon will do to others. This is especially useful for finding counters for pokemon or knowing how to EV your pokemon.<br><br>

<a href=http://www.metalkid.info/Pokemon/OnlineProgram/Calculators/IV.aspx><font color=red>Metalkid - IV Calculator</font></a>

This is a great resource for figuring out if a pokemon you've bred is good enough to be trained up and put into your team. It can show you IVs from about any pokemon 100% accurately.

<br><br><hr>
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Old April 27th, 2008 (6:07 PM).
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Is at least every OU pokemon mentioned somewhere in the movesets at least once? If not, that'd be a good option to do, just to show WHY those pokemon are OU.

Couple typoes here and there, but nothing major. It'll really get the less-experienced players into a feeling of "Hey, I can do this now." Also, under "Synergy" of constructing a team, make an example of teamwork, such as Blissey, Forry, and Cresselia. (Those 3...wow)
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Old April 27th, 2008 (6:14 PM).
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The best example of teamwork is Snorlax and Spiritomb (and yes, Blissey won't work in Snorlax's place). they wall every special attacker in the game except NP Togekiss, who only electrics can counter well. In other words, Tomb/Lax is on every stall team I make. End. They're THAT good. They're the two MVPs of my stall team by far, so yeah >.<

Also, I left out some OUs on Smogon's tier list because nobody uses them anymore (throwing them down to the BL tier) and they aren't that great...Scizor for example is in this position.

I'll probably be adding a lot more sets though. I'll probably add in Scizor too >.>

Oh, I'll also mention alternative sets with pokemon like weavile, but I doubt I'll post them. I linked to Smogon a bigillion times, so somebody should be able to figure out how to find info on all the pokemon :P

But uh...yeah. thanks much for the suggestions guys. I'll just keep annoying Ooka with updates until it's finished.

EDIT: I always keep leaving stuff out. Yuck.

Tomorrow is a big Homework day for me, but on Tuesday I should be able to do a lot of work on this. Don't expect many updates until then though :P See? Anti DOES have a life!
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Old April 28th, 2008 (1:08 AM).
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Okay, after skimming through the guide, I have some comments about it.

  • Basically not just the 47 OU pokemon from Smogon were added, I noticed there were some BLs added. For making a general threat list, I feel only the 47 OU pokemon and the top of the Borderline should be added. For example, Rampardos can't do much without Agility passes, and many of the BL pokemon dropped out of OU after being found out to be unviable in the metagame.
  • Combos
  1. SkarmBliss has almost no relevance in the current metagame, Skarm being neutered by its neutrality to Fighting and Close Combat, and Bliss as a whole decimated by mixed sweepers. The combo that should be listed is SkarmCressBliss.
  2. There are a lot of viable defensive combinations in the metagame, Celebi + Heatran for a start. Rather than listing SkarmBliss in the original walkthrough, I would suggest it be removed as it is not really a viable and long-lasting strategy.
  • Team Building is too vague. The steps that you use mainly apply to normal teams, not TR or weather. I suggest you add in the common misconceptions about weather teams, mainly immunity to said weather being mandatory and all pokemon should be able to utilise it well
  • Adding on for TR, most teams usually pack a fast revenge-killer after Trick Room.
  • Articuno is mostly unviable on a Hail team due to the commonness of SR. No mention of Stallrein or Haxlass =(
Metalkid is inaccurate (by a few %s), I found a much better web-based calculator:
http://ownpurpose.com/damage_calculator_test.php
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Old April 28th, 2008 (5:03 AM).
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It'll indeed help me alot, with some fixes.
And Aquillae is right - it's off.
Any chance for ubers and UU and NU guides in the future? (I know Smogon has an article on Uber battling, but an UU and NU guide would be nice. I can't find a list of NU Pokemon anywhere.)
 

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