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Old April 28th, 2008 (6:24 PM). Edited April 30th, 2008 by luke.
luke luke is offline
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The Forces


Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 188 HP / 84 Atk / 102 Def / 136 Speed
Naive Nature (Speed +, Special Defense -)

Thunderbolt
Drill Peck
Hidden Power [Ice]
Roost


Persian @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Speed / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (Speed +, Attack -)

Swift
Water Pulse
Hypnosis
Nasty Plot


Machamp @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 130 Def
Adamant Nature (Attack +, Special Attack -)

Close Combat
Thunderpunch
Ice Punch
Facade


Drapion @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 212 HP / 60 Atk / 232 Def
Impish Nature (Defense +, Special Attack -)

Night Slash
Fire Fang
Taunt
Swords Dance


Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 194 SDef
Calm Nature (Special Defense +, Attack -)

Surf
Ice Beam
Toxic
Recover


Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SAtk / 84 Speed
Modest Nature (Special Attack +, Attack -)

Thunderbolt
Hidden Power [Ice]
Magnet Rise
Substitute
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Old April 28th, 2008 (7:37 PM).
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geez floatzel as a starter is so problematic, especially when it's setting rain for itself. i honestly don't like it doing anything other than CBing/bulking up on a rain dance team. otherwise, it's just another one of those do or die pokes who happens to benefit from rain but, unlike other swift swimmers, is walled quite easily. so as far as the set goes... just not feeling it. it could probably do well passing subs on your team, giving persian, mesprit and magnezone a whole lot more freedom, but that's extremely limiting for it. =/

i rly liek CB champ, but i rly don't like the speed you've given it. what's the speed for? it could rly benefit from some def evs seeing how mesprit is doomed by surprises like CB u-turn/x-scissor.

rly love hp ground on electrics, but at the same time, your team could really use hp grass. gastrodon would stall the life out of these guys with persian dead.
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Old April 28th, 2008 (7:48 PM).
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Well, I need something as a starter. Help me please. I don't want to start with Mesprit because of Gengar / Pursuit. I suck with starters. ;-;
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Old April 28th, 2008 (8:41 PM).
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floatzel isn't that bad of a starter, it's just not a good rain dance team starter is all i'm saying. my own floatzel has subpass + taunt and IS a starter. it does good work. but my team isn't a rain dance team, which makes it completely different.

it makes it even more problematic when you've lost heracross, who definitely benefits from the rain for losing its fire weakness and mesprit doesn't get anything from rain (except for thunder... OMG why have you not considered thunder o_O?).

hmm, maybe you should consider a bulky grass in floatzel's place who benefits from reducing the damage of fire attacks and can also take care of your team's need for a grass type attack. just an idea.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (2:27 AM).
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Floatzel is best used as a utility with the Kristy set (Bulk Up/Taunt/Baton Pass/Waterfall), and is not sturdy enough to use Rain Dance. Quick Swift Swim might seem attractive, but Floatzel usually won't survive to set up. 55/50 defenses is bad.

As usual, Bronzong is the best Rain Dance starter IMO, for a Taunting/Statusing/U-turning one you might want to try Crobat. Kingdra can also set up Rain Dance and sweep easily, although its defenses are around average, and MixDra almost always runs a -Def/SpDef nature.

A Rain Dance team with no Kingdra? =(
Anyways, Kingdra is a fast, mixed sweeper in the rain, Waterfall for Bliss and DM/Surf for anything else.

Thunder is not a viable option as there is a chance of not setting up the Rain, and it will have low accuracy in Sandstorm, especially if your Rain Dancers are down.

You may want to try Persian as a lead if setting up Rain Dance is not a heavy priority.

CBMachamp may seem great with base 130 attack, but the set you're using is just a bad CBHera. Machamp wants No Guard Dynamicpunch.

Without Evs in Defence, Milotic is very vulnerable to strong physical moves. Surviving all sorts of boosted Thunderbolts does not outweigh the threat physical sweepers pose to you. Basically Heracross/Machamp can come in on Milotic and do a lot of damage.

Pretty big Heracross weakness. Magnezone and Mesprit are outsped by most Heras leading to an easy kill with Close Combat/Megahorn. ScarfHera is even scarier, outrunning Floatzel (without Swift Swim) and everything else, and you don't have a safe switchin on it.

Floatzel only needs 16 speed EVs to outrun almost all the threats in the metagame, but I reiterate - Floatzel is too frail to effectively set up Rain Dance.

I also don't see any of your pokemon (sans Floatzel and Persian) which can use Rain Dance to their advantage. So, if Floatzel is down, not much can benefit from Rain Dance, making it to be a waste of a moveslot somewhat.

Magnezone WANTS HP Ice. The only things that you would use HP Ground on are enemy Magnezone (Magnet Rise?), Heatran (Its faster than Magnezone). HP Grass is for Swampert which your team can handle well with Mesprit and Machamp.

Rain Dance teams are not aimed at reducing or nullifying Fire weaknesses, they are for the weather and its beneficial effects, Water moves x1.5, Swift Swim mostly. Therefore I see no point in including a stally Grass type or Forretress to stall in the measly 5/8 turns of Rain Dance.

Lack of walling is the major flaw in this team, allowing strong sweepers to wreak havoc on it. Basically if a Heracross or something else comes in, you will almost always have to sacrifice.

Conclusion: Needs more Kingdra

? =(
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Old April 29th, 2008 (2:42 AM).
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Yeah, you might want Bronzong in place of Floatzel for a Rain Dance starter, Blueberry. Works best, imo.

Bronzong @ Damp Rock
Relaxed
Levitate
252 HP, 52 Att, 204 Def
Moveset
Hypnosis
Earthquake
Gyro Ball
Rain Dance. I got this from King Tyranitar's thread, and I'm not sure if he made it or not, so credit goes to whoever made the moveset. This could work well.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (3:04 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquillae View Post
Floatzel is best used as a utility with the Kristy set (Bulk Up/Taunt/Baton Pass/Waterfall), and is not sturdy enough to use Rain Dance. Quick Swift Swim might seem attractive, but Floatzel usually won't survive to set up. 55/50 defenses is bad.

As usual, Bronzong is the best Rain Dance starter IMO, for a Taunting/Statusing/U-turning one you might want to try Crobat. Kingdra can also set up Rain Dance and sweep easily, although its defenses are around average, and MixDra almost always runs a -Def/SpDef nature.

A Rain Dance team with no Kingdra? =(
Anyways, Kingdra is a fast, mixed sweeper in the rain, Waterfall for Bliss and DM/Surf for anything else.

Thunder is not a viable option as there is a chance of not setting up the Rain, and it will have low accuracy in Sandstorm, especially if your Rain Dancers are down.

(It's still considerable though, seeing as the team will get major benefits from Thunder over Thunderbolt.)

You may want to try Persian as a lead if setting up Rain Dance is not a heavy priority.

(At this point, Persian is unable to do the NP/Hypnosis combo, and if you remove one of the attacking moves, then it loses sweeping power, so I have to say meh on that.)

CBMachamp may seem great with base 130 attack, but the set you're using is just a bad CBHera. Machamp wants No Guard Dynamicpunch.

(That's what I thought, but it's on the contrary. It can't be crippled by Will-O-Wisp, adding to its already gigantic attack, and paralysis is no longer a problem since it's already decently slow. Close Combat 2hkos Skarm here, which is what the speed EVs are for.)

Without Evs in Defence, Milotic is very vulnerable to strong physical moves. Surviving all sorts of boosted Thunderbolts does not outweigh the threat physical sweepers pose to you. Basically Heracross/Machamp can come in on Milotic and do a lot of damage.

Pretty big Heracross weakness. Magnezone and Mesprit are outsped by most Heras leading to an easy kill with Close Combat/Megahorn. ScarfHera is even scarier, outrunning Floatzel (without Swift Swim) and everything else, and you don't have a safe switchin on it.

Floatzel only needs 16 speed EVs to outrun almost all the threats in the metagame, but I reiterate - Floatzel is too frail to effectively set up Rain Dance.

I also don't see any of your pokemon (sans Floatzel and Persian) which can use Rain Dance to their advantage. So, if Floatzel is down, not much can benefit from Rain Dance, making it to be a waste of a moveslot somewhat.

Magnezone WANTS HP Ice. The only things that you would use HP Ground on are enemy Magnezone (Magnet Rise?), Heatran (Its faster than Magnezone). HP Grass is for Swampert which your team can handle well with Mesprit and Machamp.

Rain Dance teams are not aimed at reducing or nullifying Fire weaknesses, they are for the weather and its beneficial effects, Water moves x1.5, Swift Swim mostly. Therefore I see no point in including a stally Grass type or Forretress to stall in the measly 5/8 turns of Rain Dance.

Lack of walling is the major flaw in this team, allowing strong sweepers to wreak havoc on it. Basically if a Heracross or something else comes in, you will almost always have to sacrifice.

Conclusion: Needs more Kingdra

? =(
Some suggestions to that post there in parenthesized bold. I don't have time to rate your team yet Blueberry (short on time), but I will when I get home today.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (3:15 AM). Edited April 29th, 2008 by Dark Azelf.
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I actually use 128 Speed evs on my CB machamp so i can outspeed Skarm so i dont get owned by Brave Bird.


Also i fail to see how CB Machamp is a bad CB Hera, Machamp doesnt get totally shut down by Gliscor hence Ice Punch =/
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Old April 29th, 2008 (10:06 AM).
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Alright. Forget a Rain Dance team. How does the new set up look?
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Old April 29th, 2008 (10:54 AM).
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BTW, just to notify you, BL's are not allowed in UU, and according to the Tier List, Mesprit is BL.

I'm not really fond of Payback, so I guess it works...

Persian, due to being fragile, can't pull of Hypnosis + Nasty Plot, if the opponent wakes up, (or switch out to something like RestTalkHera and attack w/ CC), it's gg for Persian. RestTalkHera gets futher recognition, as Guts boost + 120 BP + SE damage + whatever REALLY hurts, especially to Persian...
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Old April 29th, 2008 (11:26 AM). Edited April 29th, 2008 by luke.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itachi 2008 View Post
BTW, just to notify you, BL's are not allowed in UU, and according to the Tier List, Mesprit is BL.

Never said this was an UU team. The presence of Spiritomb, Machamp, and Magnezone should give that way.

I'm not really fond of Payback, so I guess it works...

How else do you suggest I hit Ghost-types hard?

Persian, due to being fragile, can't pull of Hypnosis + Nasty Plot, if the opponent wakes up, (or switch out to something like RestTalkHera and attack w/ CC), it's gg for Persian. RestTalkHera gets futher recognition, as Guts boost + 120 BP + SE damage + whatever REALLY hurts, especially to Persian...

Well if it's a RestTalk Heracross, it won't be scarfed right. So if I Nasty Plot on the switch, I will out run it and it should 2HKO with Swift or Water Pulse in Rain. The only Heracross I'm worried about is Sleep Talking CB Heracross.
Yeah, I hate Spiritomb. I need something else.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (1:34 PM). Edited April 29th, 2008 by Supreme Dirt.
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Wow, it's been a while since I've seen a team from you.

Hrmm, on first glance it appears to be pretty good. Not entirely sure. I'll build it on Shoddy, and perhaps help you figure out what moves for some of them.

Your Mesprit has 512 EVs.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (1:49 PM).
luke luke is offline
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Thanks. Fixed that mistake. I keep test various Pokemon I think would work but no success yet.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (3:20 PM).
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I was looking for the post and I noticed a big Starmie weakness. I guess if you could keep Magnezone alive, you'd be fine, but otherwise it's free to murder.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (4:06 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itachi 2008 View Post
Yeah, you might want Bronzong in place of Floatzel for a Rain Dance starter, Blueberry. Works best, imo.

Bronzong @ Damp Rock
Relaxed
Levitate
252 HP, 52 Att, 204 Def
Moveset
Hypnosis
Earthquake
Gyro Ball
Rain Dance. I got this from King Tyranitar's thread, and I'm not sure if he made it or not, so credit goes to whoever made the moveset. This could work well.
Serebii.net is a great source :3


I like the team, but like Aquillae said, you should have Kingdra. I used it, and it takes out plenty of stuff in the rain, nevermind DDance. I could post the set Aquillae reccomended me, or just let him post it.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (4:17 PM).
luke luke is offline
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It's no longer a Rain Dance team. I need a solid, yet uncommon starter.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (4:54 PM).
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For our new starter, may I suggest jirachi?

Jirachi: @ Lefties
Impish
Evs:120 hp, 180 att, 200 def, 10 spd
U-turn
Body slam
Wish
Zen headbutt


Can't really remember the ev spread and shoddy's going screwy probobly cause of a trojan vundo so yeah.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (5:06 PM).
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That's not bad.

What sort of scouter are ya looking for? Speedy attacker, defensive counter, scout, etc?
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Old April 29th, 2008 (5:48 PM).
luke luke is offline
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I'd prefer a Defensive scouter. I love Jirachi, but I don't feel like Soft Resetting for one.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (6:09 PM).
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I was thinking Kangaskan. He's purty defensive, when EV'd right, and has acess to all punches. Or maybe Miltank. Unseen indeed.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (6:35 PM).
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I'd like the Starter to be non-Heracross weak. (Or at least not Fighting-weak)
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Old April 29th, 2008 (6:50 PM).
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Just a random idea, but possibly SD Gliscor? I think they run...

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Jolly, Hyper Cutter
252HP/68atk/188spd

Swords Dance
Earthquake
Ice Fang/Aerial Ace
Stone Edge/Roost

Garchomp may be better at running this, but Gliscor is a little more sturdy in doing the same task. Basically SD and when able, sweep. You can run Life Orb, but Roost is suggested at that point. Also, this thing resists Heracross, just like you wanted. However, this relates back to your big Starmie weakness. Just watch out for that.
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Old April 29th, 2008 (6:55 PM).
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Hm. Y'know, in all my times battling, I've not once seen a Heracross lead. Isn't that odd?

Anywho, I'm having a bit of trouble finding a defensive lead that isn't Swampert who can defensively scout against most of today's popular leads. I thought Sandslash, but it's not a sscouter. Sorry, I'm out of it today. How bout Flygon?
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Old April 29th, 2008 (6:57 PM).
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Well here's my criterion:

Not Heracross Weak
Can handle Starmie moderately well
Not a Steel-type
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Old April 29th, 2008 (6:58 PM).
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Um how does SD Gliscor scout for anything?

Ninjask absolutely dies laughing at Hera's STABs and can outspeed any variant and kill with AA while it can use BP to scout (and give a few team members some speed).

U-Turn Zapdos I guess is an option, but IMO Zapdos has better movepool options it should be taking advantage of. Still, it will beat Heracross (given the right set, EVs, etc.) and is pretty reliable all-around. It also absolutely laughs at people idiot enough to lead with DD Gyarados.

EDIT: Seeing the post about Starmie, Zapdos is probably your best bet >.> Ninjask can give it a taste of X-Scissor, but that opens you up to Heracross more.
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