The PokéCommunity Forums  

Go Back   The PokéCommunity Forums > The PokéCommunity Archives > Pokémon Strategies & Movesets (archive)
Reload this Page I'm Tired of Thread Titles

Notices
For all updates, view the main page.

Pokémon Strategies & Movesets (archive) Post your team lineups, get your team rated or rate other teams, talk about lineups, talk about moves/movesets, strategies, etc. For general talk about the games, go to the respective Pokémon game forums. (Requires moderator validation before new threads are displayed)

Ad Content
 
 
Thread Tools
  #26   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 29th, 2008 (7:06 PM).
luke luke is offline
Master of the Elements
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Nature: Naughty
Posts: 7,796
Yay Zapdos. I have several of those (Bold, Modest, Calm, Timid). What set works best with handling Heracross?
__________________
The bloody blade
  #27   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 29th, 2008 (7:19 PM).
Anti's Avatar
Anti Anti is offline
return of the king
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kobe's Reality
Gender: Other
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 10,818
Anything with Drill Peck and a lot of defensive EVs. You could even ignore Drill Peck since Hera's choice of Close Combat or Megahorn is inevitable, and you can just set up Machamp. It's a bit more risky, but SDrill Peck is really meh besides for Heracross and Breloom really.

BTW, I think by a worse CBcross, he's referring to Machamp's lack of Megahorn ;) Or really the coverage it misses from not having a second STAB as powerful as that. I'd actually agree that a No Guard think going on would probably help.
__________________
Why are the beautiful sick and divided like myself?
  #28   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 29th, 2008 (7:23 PM). Edited April 29th, 2008 by luke.
luke luke is offline
Master of the Elements
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Nature: Naughty
Posts: 7,796
Well, I do have a Naive and a Rash Zapdos:

Zapdos @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 118 HP / 70 Atk / 90 Speed / 232 SAtk
Naive Nature (Speed +, Special Defense -)

Thunderbolt
Drill Peck
Hidden Power [Grass] / Thunder Wave
Roost

Lemme run Calcs for OHKO numbers for EVs.
__________________
The bloody blade
  #29   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 29th, 2008 (7:26 PM).
Anti's Avatar
Anti Anti is offline
return of the king
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kobe's Reality
Gender: Other
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 10,818
I don't know what Atk EVs are for if this is only for OHKOing Heracross, who rolls over to Tackle really.

Para support would be welcome for such a slow team as well. Still< Scarfcross is going to totally own Zapdos to the point where most any other damage is going to take it out. Its EVing is very offense-oriented and I can tell you that my 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spd Zapdos can have trouble taking hits, and a -SDef natured Zapdos with only 80 HP EVs to back it up could be risky.

Then again I don't have clacs or anything, but I would be careful with how you use Zapdos.
__________________
Why are the beautiful sick and divided like myself?
  #30   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 29th, 2008 (7:37 PM). Edited April 29th, 2008 by luke.
luke luke is offline
Master of the Elements
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Nature: Naughty
Posts: 7,796
Okay this is a Neutral-Natured (i.e. non-Attack boosting) Life Orb Zapdos with 70 EVs in Attack using Drill Peck on the most common Fighting threats all running max HP:

Machamp
Damage: 271 - 319
Damage: 70.57% - 83.07%

Machamp with 252 HP / 124 Def
Damage: 235 - 277
Damage: 61.20% - 72.14%

Heracross
Damage: 571 - 672
Damage: 156.87% - 184.62%

Breloom
Damage: 543 - 639
Damage: 167.59% - 197.22%

Medicham
Damage: 286 - 336
Damage: 105.15% - 123.53%

Gallade
Damage: 319 - 376
Damage: 93.82% - 110.59%

Hariyama
Damage: 339 - 399
Damage: 68.90% - 81.10%

Primeape
Damage: 339 - 399
Damage: 101.50% - 119.46%

Vileplume with 252 HP / 46 Def
Damage: 246 - 289
Damage: 69.49% - 81.64%

Choice Band 252 Adamant Heracross Close Combat and Megahorn on 118 HP / 0 Def Naive Zapdos

Damage: 180 - 212
Damage: 51.43% - 60.57%

So Max-Speed Jolly Heracross reaches 295 Speed. I've never played Heracross before, so what the common spreads for the Hercules Beetle Pokemon?
__________________
The bloody blade
  #31   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 29th, 2008 (9:35 PM).
Samson's Avatar
Samson Samson is offline
no, i don't know milk drink
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 34
Gender:
Nature: Impish
Posts: 2,550
ooh love mixed zapdos. i have similar set, except i run u-turn instead of HP and i rely on zapdos' super sp atk and STAB tbolt to do well on its own w/o sp atk evs.

tho yours looks good. i'm just a little concerned that it isn't fast enough. i just hope you aren't so focused on giving it life orb when it could be holding something that's more... well, safe for it.
__________________

[FONT="Calibri"][SIZE="4"][COLOR="gray"]FC: 3497 0883 2077
[/URL]
  #32   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (3:55 AM).
Aquilae's Avatar
Aquilae Aquilae is offline
=))))))))88888888OOOOOOOO<
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South East Asia (Singapore)
Posts: 386
Heraweak, Gengarweak, Bronzong and friends will have a field day with your team able to incapacitate one of your members through Hypnosis.

Mixed Zapdos isn't really a good counter to fighters, unless you cannot get HP Ice I would not recommend it. Without HP Ice Zapdos is walled easily and inferior to Gliscor as a whole.

A status absorber is heavily recommended, something that can deal with Gengar. I would run a Rest/Talk Lax, being able to take on Gengar and other threatening special attackers.

I would also recommend Vaporeon > Milotic, being able to counter Gyarados and other stuff. Mesprit could be replaced with another physical wall/bulky pokemon, to offset the Heracross weakness.

Even with defensive EV investment, Guts Machamp is still not a good choice for a Choice Bander due to the fact that it is largely inferior to Heracross. If you want to utilise Machamp as a Choice Bander, No Guard > Guts, allowing you to abuse Dynamicpunch.
__________________

Check out my youtube channel!
http://www.youtube.com/user/AquiIae

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf, on Anti's social life
Ive seen dead tree stumps who get more action
  #33   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (6:00 AM).
Dark Azelf's Avatar
Dark Azelf Dark Azelf is offline
cyka blyat
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Gender: Male
Nature: Impish
Posts: 7,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquillae View Post

Even with defensive EV investment, Guts Machamp is still not a good choice for a Choice Bander due to the fact that it is largely inferior to Heracross. If you want to utilise Machamp as a Choice Bander, No Guard > Guts, allowing you to abuse Dynamicpunch.
Im curios to why you think that, unlike CB Heracross, CB machamp doesnt completely roll over and die to Gliscor. And Gyarados or Salamence cant switch in nearly as easy.

I actually think Guts would be preferable to this team as you said, it lacks a status absorb. Milotic can do it slightly however.
__________________
†Kill the unicorn
Just to have its horn
Soon he's just a fantasy†
  #34   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (6:20 AM).
Aquilae's Avatar
Aquilae Aquilae is offline
=))))))))88888888OOOOOOOO<
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South East Asia (Singapore)
Posts: 386
The lessened freedom of moves due to CB and the opponent knowing that Machamps carry Ice Punch both do not work in your favor, as Gliscor won't enjoy switching into Machamp.

Gyarados and Salamence are both prime switchins to Heracross, but Machamp is tricky. From what I see, Machamp has no real counters, any Choice Bander requires prediction to counter. But Heracross has the speed advantage allowing it much more freedom compared to Machamp.
__________________

Check out my youtube channel!
http://www.youtube.com/user/AquiIae

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf, on Anti's social life
Ive seen dead tree stumps who get more action
  #35   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (7:03 AM). Edited April 30th, 2008 by luke.
luke luke is offline
Master of the Elements
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Nature: Naughty
Posts: 7,796
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 188 HP / 84 Atk / 102 Def / 136 Speed
Naive Nature (Speed +, Special Defense -)

Thunderbolt
Drill Peck
Hidden Power [Ice]
Roost

Those EVs outspeed non-Scarfed Jolly Heracross. Even without Special Attack EVs, Zapdos manages to OHKO Starmie (172 HP / 0 SDef) with Thunderbolt if it comes in on Stealth Rock / Spikes or it might even OHKO without it (95.72% - 112.50%). Also 2HKO non-Yache Berry Garchomp with Hidden Power [Ice].

However, my team will be much too Special-based with its current lineup (if I include Zapdos). I can just see the Cresselia and Blissey laughing their butts off at me. While Machamp can OHKO Blissey and do decent damage to Cresselia, that's too big of a risk for me. I'm willing to drop Mesprit for a defensive, physical threat.
__________________
The bloody blade
  #36   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (8:49 AM).
Samson's Avatar
Samson Samson is offline
no, i don't know milk drink
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 34
Gender:
Nature: Impish
Posts: 2,550
Aquillae: zapdos would outstall gliscor unless it were the swords dance variety who would still take some hard damage out of HP grass. being able to OHKO-2HKO it is not a priority for something that is oftenly not found as an offensive poke and really only has one move that it can rely on against zapdos (stone edge), which is rarely found on any offensive gliscor. and as far as status starters go, zapdos COULD handle them if it were running lum berry, but i highly doubt blue would reason with me on that XD. also, how does vaporeon counter gyarados? HP electric? i'm not sure if you forgot, but milotic can run hp electric as well. gutsBand machamp is fine... payback is an unfavorable move choice, however.

hmm well i'm glad that you considered dropping it. i would hope you find something that isn't so weavile weak. you really can't do much to weavile after a swords dance. milotic and magnezone can take a hit from it but they won't OHKO it. hmm... how do you feel about a rain dance relicanth? rofl... i know you said you didn't want another steel type so i'm trying to be a little more open minded teehee. drapion is an option that i've always been fond of who can just swords dance back, but i'm not sure how you feel about another ground weak. weezing is a very good option who can just explode in blissey's face.
__________________

[FONT="Calibri"][SIZE="4"][COLOR="gray"]FC: 3497 0883 2077
[/URL]
  #37   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (11:23 AM).
luke luke is offline
Master of the Elements
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Nature: Naughty
Posts: 7,796
Drapion would actually be fun to use. So if I throw in Zapdos, should I make it my lead or go with someone else.
__________________
The bloody blade
  #38   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (11:29 AM).
Samson's Avatar
Samson Samson is offline
no, i don't know milk drink
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 34
Gender:
Nature: Impish
Posts: 2,550
it's a generally good lead. why not?
__________________

[FONT="Calibri"][SIZE="4"][COLOR="gray"]FC: 3497 0883 2077
[/URL]
  #39   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (11:32 AM).
luke luke is offline
Master of the Elements
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Nature: Naughty
Posts: 7,796
So Swords Dance Drapion is the way to go:

Drapion @ Leftovers(?)
Ability: Battle Armor / Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk / ???
Jolly or Adamant Nature

Night Slash
Earthquake
Fire Fang / Taunt
Swords Dance

And you said something about Payback being bad on Machamp? Would you suggest Stone Edge > Payback with Drapion now on the team?
__________________
The bloody blade
  #40   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (12:00 PM).
Dark Azelf's Avatar
Dark Azelf Dark Azelf is offline
cyka blyat
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Gender: Male
Nature: Impish
Posts: 7,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueberry View Post
And you said something about Payback being bad on Machamp? Would you suggest Stone Edge > Payback with Drapion now on the team?
Its not bad, a 2hko on Cress is hardly bad.


But yeah, with Drapion, its not gonna be needed. Try Facade, it lets you at least do something in combating Weezing or Stone Edge would be completely viable there.
__________________
†Kill the unicorn
Just to have its horn
Soon he's just a fantasy†
  #41   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (12:06 PM).
ABYAY's Avatar
ABYAY ABYAY is offline
Advancing the Yarzan species
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: West Virginia
Age: 33
Nature: Calm
Posts: 881
Stone Edge will be inferior on Machamp because:

1. Ice/Thunderpunch cover the bulk of flying types, the main reason why he has the punches.
2. Stone Edge without No Guard is risky. You gotta nail something.
3. You need Payback, or else the Cressy you want to kill laughs at you. Also it's 100% accurate, so missing won't be an issue, even if you only get half out of it.

Payback is wanted in this case, or as D.Azelf just said, Facade would work if you can get in on a status.
__________________


The Yarzan species is making progress.
  #42   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (12:09 PM).
Samson's Avatar
Samson Samson is offline
no, i don't know milk drink
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 34
Gender:
Nature: Impish
Posts: 2,550
nonono when i mentioned drapion, i was precisely playing with the idea of it as a defensive tank who can attack at the same time. so impish nature, plenty of hp, plenty of def, and perhaps a little atk or speed. i personally like battle armor, but it's your decision. dark + fire does have a decent coverage, so i'm not convinced you'll need earthquake. you can probably fit in taunt or roar over it, or if you want it to be able to take on gliscor and friends, ice fang is an option.

oh and the bit about payback... i'm just not that crazy about it on something that gets 2HKOd by whatever plans to attack it anyway, but on top of that, doesn't really ever gets its doubling in power when it's meant to take out cressy, dusknoir, etc who wouldn't 2HKO machamp and would just continue to stall instead.
__________________

[FONT="Calibri"][SIZE="4"][COLOR="gray"]FC: 3497 0883 2077
[/URL]
  #43   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (12:17 PM).
luke luke is offline
Master of the Elements
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Nature: Naughty
Posts: 7,796
Drapion @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 212 HP / 60 Atk / 232 Def
Impish Nature (Defense +, Special Attack -)

Night Slash
Fire Fang
Taunt
Swords Dance

So how does that look?
__________________
The bloody blade
  #44   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (12:20 PM).
Samson's Avatar
Samson Samson is offline
no, i don't know milk drink
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 34
Gender:
Nature: Impish
Posts: 2,550
looks delicious. let's eat.

oh and if you're keeping battle armor, give it crunch instead of night slash, foo.
__________________

[FONT="Calibri"][SIZE="4"][COLOR="gray"]FC: 3497 0883 2077
[/URL]
  #45   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (12:21 PM).
luke luke is offline
Master of the Elements
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Nature: Naughty
Posts: 7,796
Hoorah. So any glaring weaknesses I've missed before I breed and soft reset?
__________________
The bloody blade
  #46   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (12:33 PM).
Samson's Avatar
Samson Samson is offline
no, i don't know milk drink
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 34
Gender:
Nature: Impish
Posts: 2,550
well, now you only have one fighting resist. geez, friggin CB fighters =/

i've had drapion survive an explosion after already taking damage but i highly doubt it could survive two CB close combats. tho, i'm sure you can handle that.

my only other concern is milotic and whether or not having toxic is productive on a team that is mostly offensive.
__________________

[FONT="Calibri"][SIZE="4"][COLOR="gray"]FC: 3497 0883 2077
[/URL]
  #47   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (12:38 PM).
luke luke is offline
Master of the Elements
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Nature: Naughty
Posts: 7,796
Well Milotic's movepool isn't exactly mind blowing. There's Dragon Pulse and Hidden Power which could go over Toxic.
__________________
The bloody blade
  #48   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (12:46 PM).
Samson's Avatar
Samson Samson is offline
no, i don't know milk drink
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 34
Gender:
Nature: Impish
Posts: 2,550
eh nvm. it's really the best way for it to handle other bulky waters.
__________________

[FONT="Calibri"][SIZE="4"][COLOR="gray"]FC: 3497 0883 2077
[/URL]
  #49   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (12:52 PM).
luke luke is offline
Master of the Elements
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Nature: Naughty
Posts: 7,796
I'm really happy with the way this team turned out. After I'm done with these ten bajillion assignments I have due for a class tonight, I'll get to breeding and testing on Hax Central (Shoddy).
__________________
The bloody blade
  #50   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 30th, 2008 (1:18 PM).
boo836's Avatar
boo836 boo836 is offline
I'm back?
 
Join Date: May 2006
Age: 26
Nature: Relaxed
Posts: 385
Weavile kills half of your team. Night slash is a 3hko thankfully on milotic. (With cb) So with drapion, you are ok. Jolly tyranitar hurs badly. If persian misses, you are dead.
__________________
Quote:
MobileTsk: MobileTsk used Future Sight
MobileTsk: johnny was kicked
MobileTsk: : D
MobileTsk was kicked.
MobileTsk has left ABYAY's Classic Shoddy Server.
Apostle: Mobile fainted
Zomg! Brawl Fc is: 1118 0102 0548




PC SHODDY SERVER INFO

Host:battle.shinou.com
Port: 80
 

Quick Reply

Join the conversation!

Create an account to post a reply in this thread, participate in other discussions, and more!

Create a PokéCommunity Account
Ad Content

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:05 AM.