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Old June 15th, 2008 (8:46 AM).
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Dark Azelf Dark Azelf is offline
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Just kidding =)





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42 HP / 252 ATT / 216 SPEED
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Night Slash
- Ice Shard
- Brick Break

Well, i love this dude, its a really nice pokemon and it pretty much ensures me a kill against Dragon Dancers and Garchomp (Note : I despise Yache Berry =p) . It also hits Fail Gar and Azelf win, aswell as dealing with a multitude of spin blockers that hinder forry. Makes a really nice lead aswell.



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188 HP / 252 DEF / 70 SP.ATT
Bold Nature
- Ice Beam
- Wish
- Surf
- protect / Roar

Another one of my favorites that is an awesome wish passer that helps keep my team nice and healthy. Wish makes predicting and switching in easier. Not too sure on the last slot, but i could do with a PHazer and at the same time i like the "free" heal Protect grants with it =[ so im stuck. OLOL HP Ice Mixape =p. Yes, im NOT mixape weak. *Shock* =/.



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252 HP / 220 DEF / 36 SPEED
Bold Nature
- Heal Bell
- Grass Knot
- Recover
- Leech Seed

I originally had this as countering utility with HP Ice >> Heal bell, but i figured i had enough Chomp and dragon idiot coverage. Basically this is my Cleric and Helps forry with Rest, Leech Seed also provides support and wears down switch ins at the same time, which is win. Can also go toe to toe with Gyarados =D (Including Ice Fang Dos), as Grass Knot kinda owns it.




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80 Sp.att / 252 DEF / 176 sp.def
Calm nature
Trait : Natural Cure
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled
- Flamethrower
- Thunderwave / Toxic

Yes i use this alot, but its so cool, how can you not use it? =3. Anyways, having Heal bell on Celebi, this opens up a slot for Blissey in which i can use a sp.att to hit Fail Gar and Lucario, heracross, Metagross etc switch ins. I may want Toxic in the last slot due to the vast number of Bulky ground tank/wall switch ins, but as my team is bulky and kinda slow T-Wave could benefit aswell.



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220 HP / 12 ATT / 196 DEF / 80 SPEED
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost

RAWR. Bulky DD mence, this is awesome. It beats up hera and Lucario, aswell as Breloom, although Celebi does that aswell. Also doubles as a late game sweeper. 1 more speed point to beat other Bulky Mence =p



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252 HP / 60 ATT / 196 DEF
Relaxed Nature
- Rest / Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball / Earthquake / Revenge
- Rapid Spin

Forry is forry. Physical wall. As i need a Spinner, who better to fit the job than this, and as you an tell, im lost as i dont use this dude often. Would i need Rest with Wish Support ?. Im also stuck about the offensive move, Gyro Ball is a given, but EQ hits Lucario, Metagross etc switch ins, as does Revenge and as Forry is pretty much ALWAYS going last, i get a 120 base power Fighting move and it also helps one heck of alot vs T-Tar especially CB Versions, and magnezone, heck i may even beat Blissey with it [/Over exaggeration]. No im not using leftovers, im not taking my chance with Magnezone.Period.


Thats pretty much it, yes i know i have 3 fire weaks, roflcopteromgwtfbbqlolAntipopApostleAquilleaSimsSyaoran? BUT I also have FIRE resists =D. And yes, Mamoswine more than likely causes problems, but meh..
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Old June 15th, 2008 (9:04 AM).
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I love the use of failgar in this post. It looks pretty solid, but BTW with Forretress I'd go Earthquake since your team has trouble with Metagross w/ Thunderpunch otherwise. Gyro Ball is okay too if you want to massacre Gengar and also Deoxys-E (who gives you a bit of trouble).
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Old June 15th, 2008 (12:00 PM).
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Looks a good team, just watch out for Mixed Sweepers such as Mixmenced and Deoxys-S.

For the decision of moves on Forretress, I'd go with Gyro Ball, and Rest over Earthquake, Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Revenge, As you need a status absorber.
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Old June 15th, 2008 (1:14 PM).
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He has a Cleric... =\

Did I miss the brief on Special Sweepers? Because I don't see one D_A. Skarmory is a gonna wall you!!!1

But seriously, you cannot really do much at all to Skarm, I suppose...Is Surf a 2HKO from Vappy?

I notice how some of the pokemon you've been mentioning as trying to beat are steel, so I would suggest Spikes over T-Spikes, and you want Earthquake for Vire, Metagross etc.

~T_S
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Old June 15th, 2008 (1:17 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortured_Soul View Post
He has a Cleric... =\

Did I miss the brief on Special Sweepers? Because I don't see one D_A. Skarmory is a gonna wall you!!!1

But seriously, you cannot really do much at all to Skarm, I suppose...Is Surf a 2HKO from Vappy?

I notice how some of the pokemon you've been mentioning as trying to beat are steel, so I would suggest Spikes over T-Spikes, and you want Earthquake for Vire, Metagross etc.

~T_S

I have Flamethrower on Blissey aswell...

I dont need a sp.sweeper. I think ill use EQ, it seems better =p Thanks.
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Old June 15th, 2008 (1:24 PM).
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Ugh....I freaking hate fighting Blisseys...Freaking things take forever to beat. Good job on getting one, though.
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Old June 15th, 2008 (3:13 PM).
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It looks like a solid team, but like Tortured_Soul said, you have problems against steel-types. Blissey can Flamethrower them, sure, but it doesn't mean Metagross won't pummel her to oblivion. Or, even worse, Heatran eats your team if Salamence is weakned/paralyzed and Vaporeon is down (although Vappy can't take repeated Earth Powers).

Perhaps you could try to fit in a Dugtrio or something that can use a faster Earthquake than a 80 Spe Salamence.
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Old June 15th, 2008 (3:57 PM).
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Vaporeon can just Wish off Earth Powers though =/ Forretress takes Metagross's lunch money and makes it cry home to its mom too.

I don't see any steel type this team can't take. They're all covered.

Skarmory can't take Vaporeon and Blissey too well, and Forretress can spin away its Spikes before it can PHaze it.

Actually hurting steels could be somewhat difficult, but I have to disagree with T_S and Deviruchi...I just don't see the weakness or what have you. Oh, none like Celebi's seeding a whole lot either.
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Old June 15th, 2008 (4:07 PM).
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Standard Vaporeon takes 38.17% - 44.87% from Specs Earth Power. It can't switch in, especially not with SR in the field. Metal Sound Heatran, besides having Taunt to stop Wishes, usually packs HP Grass, too.

Mixgross hits Forretress in the face and steals his girlfriend.

Celebi is scared of Heatran, too.
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Old June 15th, 2008 (4:59 PM).
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Mixed Metagross can't beat Vaporeon though =/ That and nobody uses it.

Choice Specs Earth Power gives Salamence a free switch-in, something you don't want to give to that good a DDer. If MS Heatran has HP Grass, that means it doesn't have Dragon Pulse which means Salamence walls it. Taunt Tran can't even hurt Vaporeon while Vappy can take it out with a couple Surfs. Again, if it has HP Grass, Salamence walls it.

Oh, not to mention that D_A has Blissey which beats the crap out of Heatran. Taunt doesn't even bug it since Seismic Toss still is a 4HKO, more than Heatran can muster, that's for sure (that and it has to Taunt Blissey, so it can't attack it that turn).

After a Metal Sound, Blissey can just switch from the obvious Fire Blast to Vaporeon or Salamence and scare Heatran away.

I honestly don't know where you get the idea that this team is Heatran weak when it counters every single variant.

BTW, Specs earth Power is only a 3HKO, even with Stealth Rock down considering Leftovers recovery (even if both attacks do max damage). It can just Wish away the damage.

Heatran can't even KO half of this team. How in the world is it Heatran weak?
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Old June 15th, 2008 (5:03 PM).
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Don't forget the elusive HP Electric Heatran. Sure, it may be inferior, but they are still out there.

I am glad you noticed how much phail is here. You phail too, for not spelling "phail" right. Phailure...
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Old June 15th, 2008 (5:06 PM).
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HP Electric Heatran means that it has no Explosion which means Blissey walls it.
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Old June 15th, 2008 (5:10 PM).
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this looks like a really nice team. but..............what is a mixape?
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Old June 15th, 2008 (5:13 PM).
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this looks like a really nice team. but..............what is a mixape?
It's an Infernape set that is designed to break the most common walls in today's metagame. It is pretty dang good too.

And BTW if Heatran has to blow up, it is countered (forgot to include that :P)
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Old June 15th, 2008 (5:14 PM).
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I guess I was wrong, his team really isn't Heatran-weak. But I'm still saying it might have problems bringing it down without first finding out its set, which usually requires taking some damage- and that damage can be huge. And yes, if we're playing theorymon, then it can KO half of his team.

And while Mixed Metagross doesn't defeat Vaporeon, until you realize it's a Mixed set, you could have a wasted Forretress.

But let's be fair. There's just no point in theorymon. I gave you the damage calcs and what else they could do, but how it plays is up to the players.

And I stand by my opinion that he needs a faster Earthquake user.
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Old June 15th, 2008 (5:25 PM).
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Well yeah, that's the whole point of mixed Metagross. That doesn't mean he's weak to it though. All of those novelty things are designed to surprise a wall, and if Forretress dies from that surprise, you just didn't see it coming. Mixed Metagross and novelties like that can hurt any team pretty hard no matter how well-assmebled, so I don't really see the point in bringing it up if ya knowwhat I mean ;)

And I disagree again. Blissey can switch in on anything but Explosion or some novelty Choice Bander or something (lol) and beat it more often than not. Heatran can't possibly damage this team with Blissey as the initial switch.

Team rating is all about theorymon. Otherwise you can't really figure out weaknesses unless you battle the team with the given pokemon and whatnot. If D_A plays Heatran right, it won't do any damage to his team really. Blissey scouts the set and will probably be a good counter. If not, Salamence or Vaporeon can come in and take care of it. It isn't that hard to execute.

For the record, I have a 50-3 team whose fastest Earthquake user is Mamoswine, who Salamence is faster than. I don't really see a fast Earthquake as a priority if I'm being honest.

I see where you're coming from and all, but honestly I think most changes (like a faster EQ user) would only be a detriment to his team rather than a big help.

Heatran is a pretty predictable pokemon. All of its sets are very similar (except the defensive ones, but those are obviously rather easy to counter) and it isn't tough to beat given counters (and D_A has them). That's what I'm getting at.
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Old June 15th, 2008 (5:33 PM).
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Blissey can get into an infernal Stallwar with the Sleep Talker set though, haha.

But yeah, I get your point. I guess I'm just too used to UU and don't have enough experience with the current metagame to speak better than what I already did. Perhaps the OU metagame changes didn't come to me yet. I should go watch some battles on youtube or something. Lame, lol.

Anyway this team is Luvdisc weak.
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Old June 15th, 2008 (5:36 PM).
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Quote:
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Anyway this team is Luvdisc weak.
That I agree with!

And the sleep talker gets owned by Mence :P:P:P

Anyways, I know you mentioned it already Azelf, but Mamoswine is a real pain in the neck for you. Though you do well against the CBer since Forretress takes every hit except earthquake, which Celebi mops up. Of course, you're playing with fire (or ice, rather).

At least it can't really hurt Celebi that bad if it lacks Ice Fang :P
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Old June 15th, 2008 (5:46 PM).
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Isn't Mamo revenged killed by Mence?

No, it lacks Fire.
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Old June 15th, 2008 (7:09 PM).
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It lacks hatred...


Uhh.. from what I see, this is another typical annoying D_A team: 1 sweeper and 5 dumb tanks/walls that piss me off.

You have quite a problem with Deoxys-E. Life Orb Ice Beam / T-bolt / Superpower can do a lot here, especially if your walls are already weakened.

I'm not fond of Weavile at all (other than the fact that he's Azelf's #1 enemy) - he isn't a very good lead because of a few reasons: doesn't hit hard enough, even with CB; Intimidate; Scarf/Focus Sash Azelf and Gengar who are extremely common and can kill him with Focus Blast / Fire Blast (Gengar can also Hypnosis). I believe he is best used with U-turn support to come and revenge kill, also good when you have psychic weak pokes on your team, but you don't. However, not using this team myself I can't really know how he functions..

I assume you won't be using it in the official ladder, since you don't wanna face Wobba.. but if you do, he is going to cause some troubles.

As for Mamoswine, he can be dealt with through pure prediction. Salamence's Intimidate can be very handy.
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Old June 15th, 2008 (7:39 PM).
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HUGE Garchomp weak, nothing on your team can take it honestly. Yache variants will sweep your team like there is no tommorow.

No Spin Blocker means Forry would Spike the field for almost absolutely nothing, pure stall teams would remove entry hazards and set up their own, much through the use of the ubiquitous Skarmory that most people mentioned.

Weavile won't handle the two most common Spin Blockers Dusknoir and Spiritomb, mostly Spiritomb, Will-O-Wisp would keep Weavile at bay, even if you have a cleric you would be giving your opponent one free turn of setup.

Nothing to take sleep also is a hindrance, mainly with Breloom. I assume the way you are trying to take status is to shuffle between both of your Natural Curers? Breloom can take down them both and Salamence has to be wary of the threat of Spore, could be worn down repeatedly after switchins.

First I would like to adress the Breloom and Garchomp issue. Putting Reflect > Heal Bell on Celebi stops Breloom cold, your team does not need clerics considering only two pokemon in this team cannot effectively take status (Weavile and Vaporeon).
Forry should not run Rest as Vaporeon can pass Wishes to it easily.

I find that BulkyMence is not a good fit for this team due to its Stealth Rock weakness, CMCune is similarly handled by Vaporeon and Celebi. I would suggest Gliscor in its spot, with Stealth Rock to free up a slot on Forretress.

For Forretress it would personally be best to run Rapid Spin/Gyro Ball/Spikes or TSpikes, the last slot would probably be either Light Screen, Earthquake or another Spiking move.

I would advocate RestTalkSpiritomb > Weavile, helping with the Spin Blockers and getting rid of Gengar/nulling Bronzong's hypnosis. You could either run Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse or run a psuedo CroCune set, which is not recommended given that Lucario gets free setup. Manhandles Deoxys-E too.

Reflect Celebi can handle Mamoswine easily, I forgot to mention.
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Old June 16th, 2008 (2:48 AM).
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He doesn't have a Breloom issue at all!

Celebi is the best Breloom counter, Grass Knot breaks his subs and is more than enough to hurt Breloom, despite his resistance. He can easily get one of his pokemon slept (suppose Forretress) and Heal Bell them when Breloom is gone.


Garchomp weakness? is this some thing people are forced to say just because he's "that" good? Well D_A doesn't have a Garchomp weakness. His entire team, barring Blissey, is able to take care of him. Forretress might not, but Garchomp won't enjoy taking Gyro Ball regardless. Celebi is bulky enough to hurt him with Grass Knot or even Leech Seed and make it hella lot easier. Weavile can't switch in, but Ice Shard, even with Yache Berry, means that Garchomp is forced to attack and can't stat up. Salamence can come and Intimidate on EQ while Vaporeon kills with Ice Beam. I think he has more than enough ways of dealing with Garchomp.
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Old June 16th, 2008 (4:04 AM).
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GK from Celebi does at most 22% to Breloom so even with max damage it wouldn't break a Sub due to Breloom's low weight and resistance. Breloom beats mono GK Celebi one-on-one easily.

With a RestTalker the threat of Spore is nullified allowing Salamence to come in easily.

Garchomp would do 71% min to Celebi with SD Outrage, and 94% min to Forretress with Fire Fang. I would think that Reflect affords him an extra degree of security against Garchomp - Salamence cannot come in on EQs as it is outsped and OHKOed (97% min) by Garchomp, and Vaporeon likewise takes 71% min from Earthquake and 85% min from Outrage.

I don't see how Reflect on Celebi for Garchomp would be restrictive at all, letting Celebi nullify Garchomp as well as provide support against Mamoswine. It also allows the rest of the team to take on Garchomp sufficiently.
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Old June 16th, 2008 (4:22 AM).
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GK from Celebi does at most 22% to Breloom so even with max damage it wouldn't break a Sub due to Breloom's low weight and resistance. Breloom beats mono GK Celebi one-on-one easily.
Breloom actually doesnt EVER beat Celebi one on one.

What move can it hit Celebi with ? It resists Focus Punch, Seed Bomb and is immune to leech Seed and takes a laughable 22.28% - 25.99% from Stone Edge. Breloom also has no recovery move whilst Celebi does and even if it does actually try to stall celebi out, it will still loose in that aspect.

Only move i see it can even beat it with is major Flinch hax from Rock Slide or Choice Specs and Hidden power Bug =/.

If i mis predict with an Outrage, so be it, i can just go to Forry and Wear it down with Gyro ball. And as you said Vappy isnt OHkOd, so i can Ice Beam to break the Yache Berry and then revenge kill with Ice Shard.

I think a Cleric would be much more beneficial than Reflect tbh. Because if Toxic spikes hits vappy or something unexpected, then thats poisoned for the remained of the game, which sucks. Ill try it though and see which is more beneficial.

D-E, whilst it can "hit all my pokes for SE damage" is easily dealt with AKA. If its a lead vs weavile, its gonna use Super Power, in which case ill go to Forry or Celebi and then to Blissey to lol at it with -1 att. Even if it comes in on Bliss and tries to Super Power, again i can just soft boiled on that turn.


As for a status absorber....meh. Ill try that to, but im not a fan especially with a cleric, ill probably let something useless get put to sleep and then Bell it away later.
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Old June 16th, 2008 (4:30 AM).
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FP does ~32% to Celebi, Breloom has Substitute and Poison Heal as well as the fact that your team does not have Sandstorm allowing Breloom to heal the full amount of health each turn.

I have to remind you that resisted STABed FP has a higher BP than unSTABed Stone Edge.

I didn't say Reflect was just for Garchomp. It was to help against a lot of physical threats which include the likes of Mamoswine which your team currently has trouble with. The only pokemon in your team remotely affected by status are Vaporeon and Weavile, not to mention you pack a Spinner in Forretress which allows you to Spin away Toxic Spikes.
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