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Pokémon Strategies & Movesets (archive) Post your team lineups, get your team rated or rate other teams, talk about lineups, talk about moves/movesets, strategies, etc. For general talk about the games, go to the respective Pokémon game forums. (Requires moderator validation before new threads are displayed)

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Old June 28th, 2008 (11:15 AM).
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I know that, but what I'm trying to say is he doesn't have a huge, glaring Gyarados weakness.
Wait, maybe I''m late in the convo, but even if he doesn't have a glaring weakness, why use Grass Knot if he's using superior Psychic?
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Old June 28th, 2008 (11:17 AM).
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Wait, maybe I''m late in the convo, but even if he doesn't have a glaring weakness, why use Grass Knot if he's using superior Psychic?
I already admitted to not knowing Psychic had a much higher base power.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (11:19 AM).
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Just something you could do, not something you really have to do. It could help, or it could cause you to lose a move slot. Your walls will probably hold long enough to stop things getting a clean sweep with a stat boost, so you might not need it.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (11:35 AM).
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So, what's the verdict on Azelf > Gengar?
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Old June 28th, 2008 (11:44 AM).
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So, what's the verdict on Azelf > Gengar?
Azelf is superior to Gengar in every single way possible.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (12:02 PM).
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Gengar can still own Cresselia and Dusknoir (barring Shadow Sneak), something Azelf can't do.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (12:12 PM).
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Azelf is superior to Gengar in every single way possible.
That really isn't true...and this will shock you all but I'm not in favor of Azelf >>> Gengar at all in this case. The team's problems are lying on the defensive front, something that Gengar has over Azelf for sure. For the record Gengar also has better coverage, if that means anything.

I don't see what adding an Azelf would do for this team. It's not even close to Gyarados coverage (it can't even revenge kill it without thunderbolt).

I must disagree about Gyarados not staying in on Weezing sims. If your Weezing ends up not having Thunderbolt (and Gyarados is going to scout for it if it's smart), Gyarados will try to set up again and will sweep the team. Sometimes people just assume it doesn't have Thunderbolt and fire off DD waterfalls at it.

Also Swampert is a really good lead. Nothing is going to be knocking it out besides SpecsMence (love that thing) and a Grass Knot Bronzong, and I'm pretty sure not even that OHKOs (and nobody uses Grass Knot Bronzong leads). Inernape leads aren't common at all either.

Weezing isn't the best Gyarados counter, but it works, so I'd go Thunderbolt >>> Sludge Bomb right now and leave it at that. I don't see any usefulness in Sludge Bomb.

With the current lineup, the biggest problems are physical dragons and MixApe. the DDers are stopped by Swampert and if it fails, revenged by Weavile. Anything of a special sweeping variety is handled by Blissey. That basically leaves most Garchomp and also CBmence, as well as a MixApe weakness.

Guess what covers those? Mesprit and Cresselia! Both counter SDchomp and most Salamence, though CBchomp is trouble (but that's a given with any team not carrying a steel). Still, with a CB that means it lacks a Yache Berry which means that Garchomp is OHKOed by Weavile. That's the best I've got. I'm hesitant to put them over Gengar as you lack a way to hit physical walls hard otherwise. I'm hesitant to take out Weavile because it's a last-ditch effort to kill dragons. That leaves Lucario...
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Old June 28th, 2008 (12:23 PM).
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Bah. Sludge Bomb, along with a more powerful attack, 4HKO's Dos, on top of WoW damage, and bringing itself back up with Pain Split. On the times when I battled Dos (if it didn't switch) I didn't see much usefulness in T-bolt. Along with the fact that I forgot to give it T-Bolt (it had Haze, I forgot to teach it that. Gyarados doesn't do enough damage to scare Weezing off, and most powerful atacks that manages to at least do 50% damage gets Pain Splitted right off.

Only usefulness I see in T-bolt (other than hitting Gya, I suppose), is hitting heatran on the switch (as you are walled by him), but then again, you don't do enough damage to actually pose a threat. Unless one more hit would kill him. Or your relying on the 10% paralysis. Punk.

And sorry, I speak in terms of wifi, not shoddy. The majority of the leads I've faced were MixApe. Leading me to dislike Swampert, as a lead, at least.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (12:34 PM).
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Gyarados can Taunt Haze and Wow easily. A 4HKO isn't enough when Gyarados 3HKOs with Waterfall after a DD and is faster. Then it's going to sweep his team.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (12:41 PM).
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For one thing, he can easily go straight for the kill on the turn he uses Taunt, making it three easy hits to land (how did I know Haze was going to get bought up, when I said it had Haze, but I didn't mean for it too). Second, Gengar can easily take Gya out with a T-bolt. Hell, a little prediction can make life easier. And I do mean a little.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (12:42 PM).
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Guess what covers those? Mesprit and Cresselia!
Do both of them have to be roaming Pokemon? Soft resetting will be a pain...
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Old June 28th, 2008 (12:50 PM).
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People seem to forget, Teams on wifi isn't as convinent as pushing edit team, making changes, & bam, perfect 31 IVs, barring perfect Hidden powers, and all shinys.

Geuss we gotta consider that this is a wifi team, and you are burdened with HP & Natures.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (12:52 PM).
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Well, they are if you have access to Pokesav, but like I said before, I only use Pokemon I raise with love. >:(
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Old June 28th, 2008 (1:09 PM).
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Well, if it was Pokesav'ed, the thread would be closed :P

But yeah, unless you wanna be a man & go all powah over T-Bolt, use Sludge Bomb. If ya wanna wear a tu-tu, go for coverage on T-Bolt. Ya dame.

Yeah, just shamelessly burning Anti-Pop for a moment. Like Highlander, there can be only one.

But since Gya with at least one DDance gives you issues, go T-Bolt.

You skirt.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (1:24 PM).
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Don't worry. I'm manly enough that Thunderbolt won't PHaze me. Roar might, though.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (2:01 PM).
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No, "a little prediction" isn't going to beat Gyarados. Thunderbolt isn't for coverage, it's for Gyarados. Weezing barely beats Gyarados even witgh Thunderbolt >_<

Gengar is outsped and destroyed after one DD. I honestly don't know why people switch in Gengar on Gyarados or think Gengar is a good answer to Gyarados (not just sims, I mean a lot of people on shoddy). Prediction can work against stuff like CB Gyarados, but not against the DDer. It can just DD and kill what is in front of it if you're Gyarados weak.DD and Gengar comes in, Waterfall and it's dead. Prediction can't stop that. Basically what I'm saying is that prediction can only take you so far, and even the best players can't predict right all the time.

I know WiFi isn't convenient like Shoddy, but that doesn't mean Cresselia and Mesprit should be obsolete because of that. Mesprit is probably the best answer to the threats posed to this team. There isn't much else that can help. I honestly don't know any ingame stuff about DP so I can't help much with that...you know, besides who the starters are and stuff lol.

Not much else gives you MixApe and dragons coverage. the only other thing I can think of is a Suicune investing a lot of EVs in SDef, but then Garchomp is going to be a bigger issue >_<
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Old June 28th, 2008 (3:18 PM).
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Alright, now I'm confused about who to lead with. Swampert's looking good, though, since he isn't completely forfeited if an opponent decides to lead with a certain Pokemon. However, Mixape leads might be trouble. On the other hand, Gengar can switch in on Grass Knot, Close Combat, and Nasty Plot (assuming Ape predicts a switch), outspeed, and scare him off with LO Shadow Ball, or just Hypnosis him/ whoever the opponent switches into.

Come to think of it, Gengar can come in on a lot of predicted attacks with Mixape. Close Combats aimed at Blissey, Lucario (not that Nape can stand an SD Extremespeed), and Weavile (or Mach Punch, rather); Grass Knots aimed at Swampert (see above); and of course, Nasty Plots when he predicts a switch. And with Stealth Rock on the field, he'll soon be in KO range for Shadow Ball. The problem is outpredictions- I'd have to take care of Mixape that turn, or getting Gengar in the next time won't be so easy.

So, any other threats? Or is my plan for Nape too shaky to be considered?
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Old June 28th, 2008 (3:25 PM).
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Alright, now I'm confused about who to lead with. Swampert's looking good, though, since he isn't completely forfeited if an opponent decides to lead with a certain Pokemon. However, Mixape leads might be trouble. On the other hand, Gengar can switch in on Grass Knot, Close Combat, and Nasty Plot (assuming Ape predicts a switch), outspeed, and scare him off with LO Shadow Ball, or just Hypnosis him/ whoever the opponent switches into.

Come to think of it, Gengar can come in on a lot of predicted attacks with Mixape. Close Combats aimed at Blissey, Lucario (not that Nape can stand an SD Extremespeed), and Weavile (or Mach Punch, rather); Grass Knots aimed at Swampert (see above); and of course, Nasty Plots when he predicts a switch. And with Stealth Rock on the field, he'll soon be in KO range for Shadow Ball. The problem is outpredictions- I'd have to take care of Mixape that turn, or getting Gengar in the next time won't be so easy.

So, any other threats? Or is my plan for Nape too shaky to be considered?
I'm telling ya, Swampert makes an awesome lead. Bronzong can only Hypnosis it, Grass Knot won't OHKO I think. But still, it counters a lot of things. You could fit Roar in there if you want to stop set ups.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (3:37 PM).
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No, "a little prediction" isn't going to beat Gyarados. Thunderbolt isn't for coverage, it's for Gyarados. Weezing barely beats Gyarados even witgh Thunderbolt >_<
What? This is whre I disagree completely. Gya barely 3HKO's it. And by coverage, I meant by takingon Gya (covering Gya). With a DD, it's a 3HKO. weexing doesn't have much Gya problems at all.

Gengar is outsped and destroyed after one DD. I honestly don't know why people switch in Gengar on Gyarados or think Gengar is a good answer to Gyarados (not just sims, I mean a lot of people on shoddy). Prediction can work against stuff like CB Gyarados, but not against the DDer. It can just DD and kill what is in front of it if you're Gyarados weak.DD and Gengar comes in, Waterfall and it's dead. Prediction can't stop that. Basically what I'm saying is that prediction can only take you so far, and even the best players can't predict right all the time.
That's why, if you had read the RESTof the posts, you'll see I made a burn (there can be only one) by saying prediction is the manlier way of doing things. Predict a Taunt ocmming in on Weezing, switch to Gengar. But, i feel Weezing handles it pretty comfortably. If he want's more security (& a dress) T-Bolt is the way to go.

I know WiFi isn't convenient like Shoddy, but that doesn't mean Cresselia and Mesprit should be obsolete because of that. Mesprit is probably the best answer to the threats posed to this team. There isn't much else that can help. I honestly don't know any ingame stuff about DP so I can't help much with that...you know, besides who the starters are and stuff lol.
It's because you don't play wifi that is why you don'tunderstand. Notice how we always say "sims bred for 5 months for an HP ICE Oddish"? That is serious crap right there, that probably isn't for everyone. I can't imagine soft-reseting for one. He can't magically make one, it may take minutes, hours, weeks, or more (not years, of course not). Aome pokemon are just obsolete.
Not much else gives you MixApe and dragons coverage. the only other thing I can think of is a Suicune investing a lot of EVs in SDef, but then Garchomp is going to be a bigger issue >_<
Vileplume does. Vileplume covers everything. He just chooses to be fire weak.
You tried. At least you made sense. But what's viable in Shoddy may not be so in wifi. I personally like that indifference.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (3:51 PM).
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Weezing doesn't have Gyarados problems if it has Thunderbolt. Must have worded that badly. I see what you mean with the Taunt prediction and going to Gengar, but you can only pull that off about once and then you're playing with fire. BTW, if Gyarados has one DD (a likely scenario as Weezing switches in on it), Gengar is going to get pummeled by Waterfall even if it switches in safely, as it fails to outspeed Gyarados.

I actually did read the posts sims >_<

I know well how long it takes to breed since I have in RSE myself, for hours and hours and hours. Still, go on Youtube and watch WiFi battles. There are plenty of Cresselias and Uxies and Mesprits around. I do understand you know. I'm just saying that the time and effort should not stop you from using certain things. I bred for the right Hidden Power and IVs on my Kingdra for 4 months.

"But what's viable in Shoddy may not be so in wifi."

That isn't true at all. It is the same metagame with the same pokemon and the same game mechanics. The only difference is that there aren't perfect IVs everywhere, but that doesn't change a whole lot (I have link battled in Ruby so I can relate to this more than you think). I'm not being indifferent here...I know what WiFiers have to go through, since I have gone through that myself.

Mesprit and Cresselia are honestly the only things I can think of that reliably stop both, unless you want some novelty like Scarf Gyarados (who's going to get smashed by SR anyways). Not many things can counter MixApe and Garchomp/CBmence. you can try Starmie, just don't expect it to take hits like a pro.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (3:53 PM).
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I see little reason to use Sludge Bomb. Sure it's got STAB, but Thunderbolt gives Weezing greater coverage against steels, flying types, water types, and Ghost types.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (4:01 PM).
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And you can understand, that isn't for everyone. Waiting to play for months can indeed makethings unusable. Settling is just about the best you can do at times. Wifi is actually different from shoddy, more than you think. Along with not having ccertain moves availible, and survivability being less so, there are things unavailible, a huge differetion of the stregnths of pokes.

Just because you see alot of battlers with legends, doesn't mean that relates to everyone. just because they went for months breeding, doesn't mean it's for everyone. To say that it's the same is just wrong. Same metagame, yeah, but not so much the same pokes. He has said he doesn't want to breed for the Uxie & the likes, so those pokes may just be unusable.

Ya don't really see what wifiers have to go through, at least not on the same scale. If you did, you'd understand exactly what I mean. I have nothing but frree time, others may not. They may just have to settle on whatever may be best, (which is why I have more sympathy for fair hackers. I can't even get RSE moves. It sucks.

EDIT: Excuse me, Ttar? Fire takes care of PHYSICAL STEELS, what flying does Weezing need to cover, what phyhsical water does it need to cover, and T-Bolt offers no coverage to Ghost. In fact, Sludge Bomb does better.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (4:07 PM).
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And you can understand, that isn't for everyone. Waiting to play for months can indeed makethings unusable. Settling is just about the best you can do at times. Wifi is actually different from shoddy, more than you think. Along with not having ccertain moves availible, and survivability being less so, there are things unavailible, a huge differetion of the stregnths of pokes.

Just because you see alot of battlers with legends, doesn't mean that relates to everyone. just because they went for months breeding, doesn't mean it's for everyone. To say that it's the same is just wrong. Same metagame, yeah, but not so much the same pokes. He has said he doesn't want to breed for the Uxie & the likes, so those pokes may just be unusable.

Ya don't really see what wifiers have to go through, at least not on the same scale. If you did, you'd understand exactly what I mean. I have nothing but frree time, others may not. They may just have to settle on whatever may be best, (which is why I have more sympathy for fair hackers. I can't even get RSE moves. It sucks.

EDIT: Excuse me, Ttar? Fire takes care of PHYSICAL STEELS, what flying does Weezing need to cover, what phyhsical water does it need to cover, and T-Bolt offers no coverage to Ghost. In fact, Sludge Bomb does better.
Thunderbolt does more to Gengar than Sludge Bomb. And when I say flying, I'm talking about those Skarmory.

What physical water does it cover? Gyarados perhaps. Gyarados is a huge threat to this team, and Weezing can effectively couner it.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (4:15 PM).
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Ghosts resist Sludge Bomb I'm pretty sure...but seriously, unless ac wants his team to be Gyarados weak totally, Thunderbolt that thing.

sims I guarantee I've put in at least as many hours breeding as any single person on this forum. If you want to win, it takes hard work. You can even avoid it by simply going to the trade forums here and getting pokemon you need. I didn't have that luxury ._.

Honestly I think settling on a Mesprit or Cresselia with only decent IVs or whatever would work. This team just needs something that can take MixApe and Garchomp. Starmie and Vaporeon can to an extent (talking about Garchomp here mostly), but Cresselia and Mesprit are more reliable in general.

I can only suggest things that work from a strategy standpoint. I'm trying my best to work around the wifi thing but it's really hard to in this case >_<
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Old June 28th, 2008 (4:26 PM).
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And that is what I mean.

No, I don't really thik you could have bred enough as wifi battlers. You also had netbattle. People have whole boxes full of pokes that they have been breeding evar since the game came out. Breeding on Ruby & breeding for wifi is not the same. And trading doesn't give you desired results. first, you gotta hope they have it. Aside from D_A, I only got three things out of the fifteen threads I've made. 24 on different threads. So, altogether, I got 3/39 things from trade threads. Aside from hacks.

Nah, gost don't resist poison, Gengar does, and it takes the same amount of damage as FLAMETHROWER, to almost all that he said same with Skar. And Ttar, Anti and I are debating that right now, you can't use Gya in that arguement yet. Why would you bring up "it counters Gya" if we are talking about that right now?

Now, as I said more than once, if he is shakey on it, go with T-bolt. It is more secure. However, get your tu-tu ready.

I can understand what you mean which is why I said YOU WEREN'T WRONG, you were giving advice from a strategic standpoint. But if he doesn't want to put in months of reseting, that must be accounted for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sims796 View Post
Well, if it was Pokesav'ed, the thread would be closed :P

But yeah, unless you wanna be a man & go all powah over T-Bolt, use Sludge Bomb. If ya wanna wear a tu-tu, go for coverage on T-Bolt. Ya dame.

Yeah, just shamelessly burning Anti-Pop for a moment. Like Highlander, there can be only one.

But since Gya with at least one DDance gives you issues, go T-Bolt.

You skirt.
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