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Old June 28th, 2008 (4:40 PM).
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Originally Posted by sims796 View Post
I can understand what you mean which is why I said YOU WEREN'T WRONG, you were giving advice from a strategic standpoint. But if he doesn't want to put in months of reseting, that must be accounted for.
I'm trying to take that into account, but there's only so much I can do. What am I supposed to say? "Well just let your team get massacred by Garchomp and MixApe since you can't obtain Cresselia and Mesprit." I'm trying to offer alternatives -_-

Just because I netbattle and shoddy battle doesn't mean I don't breed at all. I still breed since I want to beat The Battle Frontier, also known as hax palace. Even in my young newbie years in 3rd grade when I played ingame I bred a lot ._. All I ask is that you please don't just assume how much time I've used breeding pokemon because you don't know ;) The Battle Frontier is...not fun.

I want to set this straight now: I agree Thunderbolt Weezingt counters Gyarados. Period.

My only suggestions I can really make confidently are Mesprit, Cresselia, and maybe Vaporeon and Starmie >>> Lucario.

EDIT: Even if Weezing is wearing a tutu it's better safe than sorry against one of the most used and powerful sweepers in the game.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (4:48 PM).
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ITHAT WASN'T MY ARGUMENT.

It was "Weezing doesn't need Tbolt to still be a Gya counter". I said that if you wear hot pants, or are a Mets Fan (baseball burn), go Tbolt. If you grow chest hair, go all Sludge Bomb.

My point was, don't speak for everyone. That is unfair to all other battlers. It's not about how much time you take, but those are some insulting things to say, "I bred as much as everyone here", as you do not shar the same experiences, and keep saying they are all the same. Maybe you did breed, but stop using the experiences you faced as if it is all the same. If they were the same, I would not be arguing.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (6:26 PM). Edited June 28th, 2008 by Archer.
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So we've agreed that Mesprit and Cresselia cover both, but are not good options due to the difficulty of obtaining them. So if we can find another counter, we should.

And that Thunderbolt (in this case) offers a better way to deal with Gyarados.

You guys both know what you are doing, don't argue about it. Now, I'm going to look for a replacement for Mesprit and Cressy....

EDIT: Damn. It's hard enough trying to find a reliable Garchomp counter, let alone finding one that covers Mixape, two. Maybe you're gonna have to cover one and hope to avoid the other. Or just have something be able to revenge kill Infernape.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (6:27 PM).
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Now, as I said more than once, if he is shakey on it, go with T-bolt. It is more secure. However, get your tu-tu ready.
I don't care. I'm already a bad enough dude to save the president. >:(

Quote:
I can understand what you mean which is why I said YOU WEREN'T WRONG, you were giving advice from a strategic standpoint. But if he doesn't want to put in months of reseting, that must be accounted for.
Hey, I never said that I wasn't going to put in the time to SR for those guys (well, I was planning on skipping Mesprit, as I never saw the appeal, but that's irrelevant.). I was just whining that it would be a pain to soft-reset for them. Cresselia is on my list of Legends to soft reset for (a list that, sadly, is populated by almost every legendary G/S and up.), so this just means that she moved up on my priorities. I want to make my team the best it can be, within attainable limits. And since Cresselia is available to me (once I beat the E4 on my flashcart save), that's definitely within attainable limits.

So now, the question is this: what set do I use? What Pokemon should they replace? Should I use Cresselia or Mesprit?
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Old June 28th, 2008 (6:46 PM).
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Mesprit gets TBolt and it requires less SAtk investment to OHKO what it needs to.

Mesprit @ Lefties
Bold (Modest is fine, as you can swap the Def and SAtk EVs. It just gives you more options.)
252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SAtk
~Psychic
~Thunderbolt
~Ice Beam
~U-Turn/Thunder Wave/Rest
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Old June 28th, 2008 (6:51 PM).
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Pesonally i like sludge bomb, because well breaking subs is nice...


throws in his two sense were it don't belong :(
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Old June 28th, 2008 (6:55 PM).
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Cresselia is a much sturdier wall but Mesprit can actually hurt things. It's kind of up to you. Personally, I would run a Thunder Wave/Reflect/Ice Beam/Psychic set with either one (it's a great set for both pokemon), or a resttalker so it has some recovery to work with.

I'd really EV it defensively though whichever one you use. Just be sure that if you use Mesprit it has some SAtk to get kills.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (7:04 PM).
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I was swept by a Mespirit on shoddy. This is why I hate shoddy. I'd go with that, but that's because I can nevar settle. but personally, just me, but I always found Cressy settup foder.

Well, if your a bad enough dude to save the president, you don't need help. You can even beat Ash Kethum. He beated a Rhydon with T-bolt by "hitting the horn".
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Old June 28th, 2008 (7:34 PM).
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Hmm... I think I may go with Mesprit here. He can cover Infernape, Gyarados, and can help in defeating Garchomp- both very big threats. Archer's set seems like it would be best:

Mesprit @ Lefties
Bold
252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SAtk
~Psychic
~Thunderbolt
~Ice Beam
~U-Turn

Now, who to replace? Given that Mesprit as such a good movepool, he makes a good Special attacker. So, I could easily put him over Gengar- I rarely use Hypnosis anyway. And much of what Gengar covers is also covered by Lucario.

The problem is that with that, one of my speediest Pokes is gone, leaving me with only one Poke with good Speed- Weavile (Lucario is about average- not high enough for me to rely on, though). And he can't hit particularly hard. Not to mention this leaves me with one less answer to Tyranitar (should Tyranitar switch in on Mesprit, she's gone- Jolly CBTar horribly outspeeds him). Although given that I have Weavile and Lucario already, it might not be too large of a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sims796 View Post
You can even beat Ash Kethum. He beated a Rhydon with T-bolt by "hitting the horn".
Hmm... he sounds like a tough trainer. But don't worry, I can use Thunder as armor!
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Old June 28th, 2008 (7:40 PM).
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Wait...how is Gengar even close to Tyranitar coverage? It can't switch in on almost all of its attacks and it just gets hammered...

Mesprit looks cool. Set is fine, though honestly I think you're going to want Thunder wave for the speed issues you mentioned.

though just to say that while Cresselia might be a set-up fodder for a lot of pokemon, its ability to counter the game's most powerful sweepers should not be taken lightly ;)
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Old June 28th, 2008 (7:56 PM).
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I never cared much for Thunder Wave- not as much as I should. Paralyzed Pokemon can't be Burned or Poisoned, so Paralysis simply works against me in the end (since all my matches degenerate into stall wars in the late game). Also, I've never used U-Turn before. It could be fun to play with. Not to mention that scouting seems like it could be a big help to my team.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (8:04 PM).
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Oh, don't underestimate T-Wave, I love it.

Oh yeah, and Thunder armour can only be used by Flying types with low sp.def, which usually falls to a thundershock.
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Old June 28th, 2008 (10:31 PM).
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TWave will also help Lucario, If he forgets to wear his Thunder Armour...
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Old June 29th, 2008 (4:49 AM). Edited June 29th, 2008 by Dark Azelf.
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I dont get it

Damage: 24.22% - 28.39%


From 60 ev sp.att weezing on 216 hp/ 0 sp.def gyarados. @Sludge Bomb, Weezing you should be ashamed. That is ass and not countering anything XD



It should be noted that Mesprit IS NOT a mixape counter, not only does a NP Flamethrower guarantee a ohko on max hp/0 sp.def variants, but it also gets 2hko'd by that same unboosted Life Orb'd Flamethrower.


Why not just use counter Star >>gengar? Ice Beam/T-Bolt/Surf/[email protected] Orb. Helps with Ape and to some extent, Chomp.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (6:33 AM).
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I was considering Starmie, but I was worried that since Swampert was already a Water, she wouldn't fit. Although they do have completely different weaknesses...

All right, I'll think about it. The only problem with it is that I'll have another Pokemon weak to Toxic Spikes. :/
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Old June 29th, 2008 (7:19 AM).
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You could conter Mixape with Tentacruel- and use it to absorb the Toxic Spikes that bother you so much, too.

Surf/Ice Beam/Knock Off + [Your filler of preference] is a great set that people shouldn't overlook.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (7:20 AM).
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I dont get it

Damage: 24.22% - 28.39%


From 60 ev sp.att weezing on 216 hp/ 0 sp.def gyarados. @Sludge Bomb, Weezing you should be ashamed. That is ass and not countering anything XD
Is that sarcasm, or what?
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Old June 29th, 2008 (7:39 AM).
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You could conter Mixape with Tentacruel- and use it to absorb the Toxic Spikes that bother you so much, too.

Surf/Ice Beam/Knock Off + [Your filler of preference] is a great set that people shouldn't overlook.
Now there is a suggestion, i completely forgot about tenta XD

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Is that sarcasm, or what?
Since when is 4/5hkoing anything "countering"?. It doesnt pose a threat to dos, certainly doesnt force it to switch and Taunt is just going to make it laugh at Weez and even Bulky Gyara 3hko's it after a DD , whilst your flapping around doing nothing. (Hoping for a poison OLOL XD?)

Realistically, even though sludge bomb gets STAB. I dont see how is even viable on a team this Gyara weak. T-Bolt is a must if you want to counter Dos effectively.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (7:46 AM).
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You could conter Mixape with Tentacruel- and use it to absorb the Toxic Spikes that bother you so much, too.

Surf/Ice Beam/Knock Off + [Your filler of preference] is a great set that people shouldn't overlook.
Toxic Spikes is really more of a minor annoyance, although I try to limit who on my team it affects. Also, where would Tentacruel fit on my team?
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Old June 29th, 2008 (7:48 AM).
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I don't see Swampert doing anything important to your team, really.
So if I had to fit in Tentacruel, it would be in its place.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (7:52 AM).
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I don't see Swampert doing anything important to your team, really.
So if I had to fit in Tentacruel, it would be in its place.
Although swampert IS his best defense against Taunt DD Tar. Even though it does get 2hko'd by a DD Crunch @Black Glasses or Life Orb.....
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Old June 29th, 2008 (7:55 AM).
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Like you've said before, something that gets 2HKO'd isn't really a Counter. Specially since Swampert will not scare Tyranitar out.

Maybe you could use Tangrowth instead of Weezing? I know it's weird suggestion, but my Tangrowth has countered so many Tyranitars it's not even funny.

edit;
Ok, I lie, it's hillarious.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (7:59 AM).
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I was thinking Gliscor >> Weezing to counter Tar, Chomp and Hera. Starmie >>Pert for Gyara, ape and spinning and <Insert random bulky steel or fighter to counter foe weavile >>YOUR own Weavile, that would iron out some weaks.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (8:16 AM).
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I was thinking Gliscor >> Weezing to counter Tar, Chomp and Hera. Starmie >>Pert for Gyara, ape and spinning and <Insert random bulky steel or fighter to counter foe weavile >>YOUR own Weavile, that would iron out some weaks.
Gliscor doesn't learn WoW, so no.

Tangrowth is cool, but Heatran sorta walks all over me in that case. I do have Blissey, but without a solid Earthquake, he's gonna be trouble.

As for Starmie, my team doesn't really need a spinner. Not to mention she's a bit too defensively weak to replace Swampert.

I dunno, Weavile's been good to me. Besides, other Weaviles haven't been a particular problem. Weezing can take most of them, if Luke doesn't already have an SD under its belt.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (8:29 AM).
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Tangrowth is cool, but Heatran sorta walks all over me in that case. I do have Blissey, but without a solid Earthquake, he's gonna be trouble.
You can actually use EQ/HP Ground on Tangrowth. It's not a bad idea at all.

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As for Starmie, my team doesn't really need a spinner. Not to mention she's a bit too defensively weak to replace Swampert.
While she may be a little more weak, she does get Recover and a great speed.
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