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Old June 28th, 2008 (7:22 AM). Edited June 30th, 2008 by Archer.
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The Idea here was to use a bunch of Pokemon I haven't used before and back them up with two reliable walls. I basically built the team around Crobat and Alakazam.
Testing is on Shoddy, but it is to be a Wifi Team, so go easy on the Hidden Powers.
Without further ado, meet:
"Crouching Bidoof, Hidden Luvdisc"


|||||

Crobat (M) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 160 HP/216 Spd/132 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hypnosis
- Air Slash
- Taunt
- U-turn
---
Comments: Counters fighters nicely with a 4x Resistance to Fighting (and Bug). Fastest Hypnosis in the game... Air Slash has higher power than Aerial Ace as well as the chance to flinch, being more usable on Crobat than anything else. U-turn helps to Scout as well as doing ~50% to 32 HP Weavile.


Alakazam (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Trick
---
Comments: Fast and powerful, it hits everything hard. With those moves, it has great coverage and Trick allows it to hand Choice Specs over to something that really doesn't want it. Pure Fun..

Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP/100 Atk/148 Def/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dynamicpunch
- Stone Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
---
Comments: Bulky, and provides me with a nice Tyranitar counter. Not a terrible lot to say... Bit more speed than average to get the jump on any other Machamps.
100 Atk is enough to OHKO Max HP TTar.

Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Knock Off/Aerial Ace
---
Comments: My Physical Wall and main way of dealing with Garchomp. AA is not needed, as Crobat takes fighters fine and I that Dragon coverage. Tossing up on the last slot. SR doesn't really prove a nusiance to anything I have problems with, so I put Knock Off there...

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Body Slam
- Crunch
---
Comments: RestTalk Lax. I dont like Gengar, so it has Crunch over EQ. Takes Ice Beams aimed at Gliscor, which can take fighting attacks for Snorlax.

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 80 Sp.A / 108 Sp.Def
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt/Discharge
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Thunder Wave/Toxic
---
Comments: Counters Salamence, Gyarados and LOLS @ Heatran, Jolteon and Vaporeon. Can take a SD'd EQ from Garchomp or a Draco Meteor from SpecsMence and live to tell the tale. (Or OHKO them with Ice Beam.)

Not sure what else to say. Rate away...
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Old June 29th, 2008 (9:50 AM).
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Why do I see 164 EVs in Attack for Modest Porygon2? Unless you meant Def EVs?
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Old June 29th, 2008 (10:19 AM). Edited June 29th, 2008 by Dark Azelf.
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Porygon [email protected]
252 HP / 68 Def / 80 Sp.A / 108 Sp.Def
Bold nature
Trait : Trace
- Discharge
- Ice beam
- Toxic
- Recover

I really dont like that p2 spread and nature...

The above spread does the same as your current spread but allows more evs to be put in sp.def and hp, Still survives a +2 eq from chomp, and a specs mences Draco meteor. With enough sp.att to ohko Chomp.

You might aswell, put T-Bolt and T-Wave in one move, that being Discharge, which opens up a free slot, Toxic is the best desired move, so you can run pseudo double status. Alternately, you can use Magic Coat in that slot for the lolz.

As for Machamp, you want a more defensive set up, CB Focus Punches and EQ HURT from Tar, and this is also your best defense vs Weavile. CB Ice Punches HURT aswell.

So try : - 252 HP / 16 ATT / 236 DEF/4 SPEED @Impish

Mixape trolls you like no tomorrow, so possibly invest something in that area. Zam gets owned, even by CC =o.

As for Crobat, im sure you could find something more productive.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (11:03 AM).
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Can i ask where the advantage of P2 is over PZ? It seems terribly strange and shoddy doesnt seem to load.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (11:06 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofre View Post
Can i ask where the advantage of P2 is over PZ? It seems terribly strange and shoddy doesnt seem to load.
Porygon 2 is more bulky than P-Z and can be tailored to counter specific threats, such as Gyarados in this case. The ever awesome Trace is utilized aswell, so it can switch directly into heatran's Fire moves and intimidate Gyarados and salamenc etc right back.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (11:24 AM).
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Oh my, yes. P2 is veery annoying when played right. Nothing better than becoming an instant Gya counter with T-Bolt & Intimidate.

I'm talking to YOU, D_A. I can never set up a sweep with that thing around.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (11:43 AM).
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More like "Hiding from Luvdisc." TEAM LUVDISC GO

Also just left orient everything. Reading this is kind of ougoufhglvsdbvodbv-ish

Crobat honestly doesn't help - just replace it.

Gofre the reason Porygon2 is here is because it doesn't suck like its evo does.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (11:48 AM).
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I axctually used to fear that thing. Trust me, don't underestimate Pory-2. Pory-Z is meh.
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Old June 29th, 2008 (4:41 PM). Edited June 29th, 2008 by Archer.
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Made a number of changes. Yes, P2's Evs were a mistake and I changed them for DA's set anyway (only after running my own calcs on them...)
Crobat has proven really useful. Air Slash does ~70% to Mixape, plus it can flinch.
Alakazam outspeeds and OHKOs Infernape with Psychic. It may not be a counter, but it still does to the job. And it screws over Blissey with Trick Specs.

I made Champ Bulkier, but kept enough Attack to OHKO max HP TTar.

EDIT: Considering replacing Machamp/Crobat with something faster...
I am having major problems with Deoxys-S. Broken son of a.....
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Old June 30th, 2008 (12:13 AM).
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I'm not denying Crobat's usefulness (one of my favorite leads in fact), but there are things that will help your team a lot more.

For starters, this team could use a normal resist. Tauros and and Starpator just TEAR you up. Honestly I'd go Skarm >>> Crobat. Gliscor is a great fighting resist anyways and Skarm will also give you some Spikes to play around with. It also stops Weavile, though Machamp is pretty good at covering that.

BTW use HP Fire over Shadow Ball on Alakazam. Shadow Ball only hits Cresselia and Celebi harder, while HP Fire gives you tools against the ever-common Bronzong and also Meta and other steels. HP Fire does decent damage to Celebi anyways, and it can't really hurt Alakazam unless it has U-Turn or something.

Mixed Kingdra weak too. P-2 isn't really enough to stop it. Bulky waters are really the best counters to it...honestly I think Vaporeon >>> Alakazam would help. It takes care of MixApe and gives you a water immunity for Kingdra. Dracom Meteor is really predictable and you can let Snorlax take that hit if you really need to.

Though your team doesn't really need it, the Wishpassing also helps. Vaporeon is also helpful against ubarchomp.

This team seems pretty flexible to work with so you have a lot of good options to use here.
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Old June 30th, 2008 (12:18 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Pop Culture Warrior View Post
I'm not denying Crobat's usefulness (one of my favorite leads in fact), but there are things that will help your team a lot more.

For starters, this team could use a normal resist. Tauros and and Starpator just TEAR you up. Honestly I'd go Skarm >>> Crobat. Gliscor is a great fighting resist anyways and Skarm will also give you some Spikes to play around with. It also stops Weavile, though Machamp is pretty good at covering that.

BTW use HP Fire over Shadow Ball on Alakazam. Shadow Ball only hits Cresselia and Celebi harder, while HP Fire gives you tools against the ever-common Bronzong and also Meta and other steels. HP Fire does decent damage to Celebi anyways, and it can't really hurt Alakazam unless it has U-Turn or something.

Mixed Kingdra weak too. P-2 isn't really enough to stop it. Bulky waters are really the best counters to it...honestly I think Vaporeon >>> Alakazam would help. It takes care of MixApe and gives you a water immunity for Kingdra. Dracom Meteor is really predictable and you can let Snorlax take that hit if you really need to.

Though your team doesn't really need it, the Wishpassing also helps. Vaporeon is also helpful against ubarchomp.

This team seems pretty flexible to work with so you have a lot of good options to use here.
Don't want Skarm, I already have Gliscor. I agree with the normal resist, but if I'm going to replace Crobat, I'll need a better lead. Bronzong would be OK...
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Old June 30th, 2008 (12:45 AM).
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Skarm and Gliscor are two TOTALLY different physical walls walling TOTALLY different things. Of course Bronzong works too, but don't discount Skarmory just because you have Gliscor.

Honestly I'm not too fond of the idea of using Bronzong over Skarmory just because you want a better lead. You don't seem to want Stealth Rock either...Do what you want though.

I honestly wouldn't be worried about being sure you have a really good lead for your team. It doesn't really matter since both leads usually leave the field by the third turn >_<
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Old June 30th, 2008 (4:25 AM). Edited June 30th, 2008 by Archer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Pop Culture Warrior View Post
Skarm and Gliscor are two TOTALLY different physical walls walling TOTALLY different things. Of course Bronzong works too, but don't discount Skarmory just because you have Gliscor.

Honestly I'm not too fond of the idea of using Bronzong over Skarmory just because you want a better lead. You don't seem to want Stealth Rock either...Do what you want though.

I honestly wouldn't be worried about being sure you have a really good lead for your team. It doesn't really matter since both leads usually leave the field by the third turn >_<
A good lead can make the difference and it has.

Sorry for the briefness of that post, I was being yelled at to get of the net...

EDIT: Looky >>

One reason I am more fond of Bronzong is the ability to take on D-E. (Gyro Ball, lol
). It also makes a decent lead, something Skarm cannot do. What I meant by having Gliscor, is that I don't want this turning into a stall team.

As for HP Fire, I was going to use that, but this is testing a team for Wifi. (Meaning D-E is going to be less of a problem.)

Considering the team was build around Alakazam and Crobat, it's seems pointless to remove them both. I am thinking of swapping Choice Specs for Life Orb. Alakazam can't take hits anyway, so why not give it some freedom?

I am going to rethink the team, but everyone can feel free to continue rating in the mean time...
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Old June 30th, 2008 (5:30 AM).
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I see one big glaring problem that will totally ruin you...

You have the title mixed around... OMG! *Shot*

Crouching Bidoof, Hidden Luvdisc -> Hidden Bidoof, Crouching Luvdisc...OMG! *Shot again*

:P

~T_S
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Old June 30th, 2008 (5:35 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortured_Soul View Post
I see one big glaring problem that will totally ruin you...

You have the title mixed around... OMG! *Shot*

Crouching Bidoof, Hidden Luvdisc -> Hidden Bidoof, Crouching Luvdisc...OMG! *Shot again*

:P

~T_S
*Gasp!* *edits*

But, seriously, rate it, mate. Your input would be appreciated...
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Old June 30th, 2008 (5:49 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
The Idea here was to use a bunch of Pokemon I haven't used before and back them up with two reliable walls. I basically built the team around Crobat and Alakazam.
Testing is on Shoddy, but it is to be a Wifi Team, so go easy on the Hidden Powers.
Without further ado, meet:
"Crouching Bidoof, Hidden Luvdisc" (First things first)


|||||

Crobat (M) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 160 HP/216 Spd/132 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hypnosis
- Air Slash
- Taunt
- U-turn
---
Comments: Counters fighters nicely with a 4x Resistance to Fighting (and Bug). Fastest Hypnosis in the game... Air Slash has higher power than Aerial Ace as well as the chance to flinch, being more usable on Crobat than anything else. U-turn helps to Scout as well as doing ~50% to 32 HP Weavile.

As the others have already stated, I believe you could do with something other than Crobat here.



Alakazam (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Trick
---
Comments: Fast and powerful, it hits everything hard. With those moves, it has great coverage and Trick allows it to hand Choice Specs over to something that really doesn't want it. Pure Fun..

Perhaps pure fun, but being your only Special Sweeper, losing your Choice Specs and gaining most likely a Leftovers means your sweeping potential is seriously lacking. I suggest either changing the moveset, changing the pokemon or adding another special sweeper somewhere.

Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP/100 Atk/148 Def/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
---
Comments: Bulky, and provides me with a nice Tyranitar counter. Not a terrible lot to say... Bit more speed than average to get the jump on any other Machamps.
100 Atk is enough to OHKO Max HP TTar.

Yay! It's all good, but why not abuse Rest-Talk and run Guts with Close Combat? You'll get more bang for your buck.


Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Knock Off/Aerial Ace
---
Comments: My Physical Wall and main way of dealing with Garchomp. AA is not needed, as Crobat takes fighters fine and I that Dragon coverage. Tossing up on the last slot. SR doesn't really prove a nusiance to anything I have problems with, so I put Knock Off there...

Good. I still like stealth rock though, knock off is...not as helpful as originally thought.

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Body Slam
- Crunch
---
Comments: RestTalk Lax. I dont like Gengar, so it has Crunch over EQ. Takes Ice Beams aimed at Gliscor, which can take fighting attacks for Snorlax.

ok, unsure on the EV's though...


Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 80 Sp.A / 108 Sp.Def
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt/Discharge
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Thunder Wave/Toxic
---
Comments: Counters Salamence, Gyarados and LOLS @ Heatran, Jolteon and Vaporeon. Can take a SD'd EQ from Garchomp or a Draco Meteor from SpecsMence and live to tell the tale. (Or OHKO them with Ice Beam.)

I've been running this as a lead lately, and it has done a marvelous job. Discharge over thunderbolt and Toxic over T-Wave. I've been running the standard spread, but whatever works for you. (i.e. 240 HP, 92 Sp. Def, 12 Sp. Atk, 164 Def)

Not sure what else to say. Rate away...
I propose removing Crobat, just like everybody else. Switch Pory2 into the lead role and add a secondary Special Sweeper if you intend to keep using TrickSpecsZam. Deoxys-E is great during late game. It'll help to clean up what Alakazam leaves behind.

[email protected] Belt/Life Orb
Hasty
252 Sp. Atk, 160 Atk, 96 Spd

Psychic / Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball
Ice Beam
Superpower

Shadow Ball is so Cress doesn't lol at you. You may prefer it over Thunderbolt here because Pory2 already has Gyara covered, and can switch in far better than Deoxys.

~T_S
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The Bank Vault - An XY Trade Thread

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Old June 30th, 2008 (6:03 AM). Edited June 30th, 2008 by Archer.
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Close Combat is not useful on something that wants to remain bulky. Besides, NG also gives 100% accuracy to Stone Edge.

Just so you guys know:
This is going to be for Wifi. Hold back on the Legends and Hidden Powers.

I'm probably going to run a Life Orb set on Alakazam and replace Machamp with something faster. Suggestions?
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Old June 30th, 2008 (6:35 AM).
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A faster fighter? Can you spell H.E.R.A.C.R.O.S.S or perhaps B.R.E.L.O.O.M?

I'm not sure, I'll have to look over the team and see. Give me a sec...

EDIT: Can you tell me why you're removing Machamp? Like what problems you're getting, or what you need to counter? Then I can be more helpful. ;)

~T_S
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The Bank Vault - An XY Trade Thread

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Old June 30th, 2008 (7:49 AM).
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Imust back Anti up in that Normal resist. Not even Gliscor can stand against a Tauros CB double Edge, doing aroung 50% damage AFTER Leftovers recovery.
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Old June 30th, 2008 (5:41 PM).
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I am considering removing Machamp because he is slow and seems to be achieving very little. I also lack a proper Phyiscal Sweeper. That comes after the Crobat issue, though. Can I use any useful leads that are still fast or an I stuck with Bronzong. If Bronzong is in then Machamp is out. BZ takes care of TTar and Weavile fairly well. (Except maybe CBTar.)
Aerodactyl?
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Old June 30th, 2008 (6:38 PM).
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Aerodactyl is retarded...

Lately, I've been seeing almost every team running Garchomp/Lucario Physical Combo's. Lucario could certainly work for you, it also gives you a Normal resist, even if it's not all that Bulky, it scares the crap out of CB Tauros.

EDIT: What am I thinking, Tauros is faster... x_X

~T_S
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The Bank Vault - An XY Trade Thread

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Old June 30th, 2008 (8:01 PM).
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Yeah, Luke makes an awful Ttar counter. Bad enough Tauros is faster, it can Intimidate Luke, then threaten to KO with an EQ.
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Old June 30th, 2008 (8:04 PM).
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Just an idea as he wanted a Normal resist, but yeah, it won't be helping any... (I was trying to stay in the mold of fighting...)

In our battle, Machamp didn't do much, but I suppose you could blame Deoxys-E for that... O_O

~T_S
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The Bank Vault - An XY Trade Thread

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Old June 30th, 2008 (8:59 PM).
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Just an idea as he wanted a Normal resist, but yeah, it won't be helping any... (I was trying to stay in the mold of fighting...)

In our battle, Machamp didn't do much, but I suppose you could blame Deoxys-E for that... O_O

~T_S
*coughbrokencough*
D-E shouldn't be a problem when I start using the team on Wifi...

Anyone else considering Aerodactyl as a lead? Otherwise I have like, one sweeper.
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Old June 30th, 2008 (9:02 PM).
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return of the king
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kobe's Reality
Gender: Other
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 10,818
Aero sweeper leads are fail in all honesty. Aerodactyl can't sweep to save its life and some of the most common leads like Scarfgar, Bronzong, and Weavile really kind of laugh at you.

You're going to be using Bronzong anyways so I don't see why your Machamp replacement needs to be a good lead.

...And if you're not using Bronzong, normals are going to give you hell. I see you're replacing Machamp. Be sure you don't lose coverage on Tyranitar.
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