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Pokémon Strategies & Movesets (archive) Post your team lineups, get your team rated or rate other teams, talk about lineups, talk about moves/movesets, strategies, etc. For general talk about the games, go to the respective Pokémon game forums. (Requires moderator validation before new threads are displayed)

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Old July 30th, 2008 (1:50 AM).
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Aquilae Aquilae is offline
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Just a quick description of weaknesses here.

Rain teams almost completely walk over your strategy, those who do not use Bronzong to lead and setup Rain Dance, meaning Jirachi/Kingdra, can basically get a free setup on Heatran and sweep. Kabutops OHKOs 5/6ths of your team with an SD up, except Garchomp which takes 99% or more from SD Waterfall, meaning a KO.

Agiligross also gets in easily on Celebi and can proceed to setup and down 5/6ths of your team with Thunderpunch/Meteor Mash/Earthquake, again Garchomp is saved but takes 70% min from LO Meteor Mash.

Very DDLOGyara weak if it gets past Celebi which isn't really a problem since DD LO Ice Fang does 53% min, and 27% min with Reflect up, and after probable SR damage, it does min 80% to Celebi meaning its down after Gyarados Ice Fangs three times, factoring in Reflect.
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Old July 30th, 2008 (4:28 AM).
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Ársa Ársa is offline
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Thanks.

I've already established the DD LO Gyara weakness, I posted it on the first page. Celebi can go the rounds if I get it in on the DD.

Kabutops issue is...a worry. It's becoming more common in Rain Dance teams I suppose, so what exactly can I do to counter it, that won't hinder anything else? Because you've given me lots of questions to think about, but not many answers...:(

~T_S
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Old July 30th, 2008 (4:54 AM).
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If you get it on the DD, LO Ice Fang would 3HKO if you use either Leech Seed or Reflect, and Grass Knot cannot deal any significant damage in the meantime. You still haven't considered the Agiligross weak.

Generally one of the best strategies against Rain Dance is to either stall the turns out or stop it from setting up Rain Dance entirely both which I feel your team can't really address.
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Old July 30th, 2008 (5:07 AM). Edited July 31st, 2008 by Ársa.
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I Reflect after i've switched into the DD, then recover off damage, slowly increasing my health, then Grass Knot it for....2 or 3HKO?

let's say the first Ice Fang does.....58%

Celebi uses Reflect ~42%
Gyarados uses Ice Fang (let's say...31%?) - 1 Turn
Celebi uses Recover ~11% - 61%
Gyarados uses Ice Fang (31%) - 2 Turn
Celebi uses Recover ~30%-80%
Gyarados uses Ice Fang (31%) - 3 Turn
Celebi uses Grass Knot (--%) ~49%
Gyarados uses Ice Fang (31%) - 4 Turn
Celebi uses Recover ~ 18% - 68%
Gyarados uses Ice Fang (31%) - 5 Turns - END
Celebi uses Recover ~37% - 87%
Gyarados uses Ice Fang (58%)
Celebi uses Reflect ~29%
Gyarados uses Ice Fang (Chance of KO)

Gyarados LO recoil is rather high by now, so I'm not sure how much Grass Knot does, but 60% recoil, plus possible SR damage means it's gone...

- - - - - - - - - -

So I can say that it is possible to take it down. Also it should be shown, that the common set runs [b]either Ice Fang or Stone Edge[/i] not both, so I can switch in my own Gyarados and resttalk stall it until it faints from LO recoil.

P.S. In regards to Rain Dance, do the starters normally stay in? Because Ala outspeeds Jirachi, so it can encore then sub on the switch. (Or not sub, then encore a SD from Kabutops, expecting a switch. If it does KO Ala, then I can switch in Celebi, without Swords Dance, does it OHKO? I wouldn't think so...)

~T_S
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The Bank Vault - An XY Trade Thread

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Old July 30th, 2008 (6:10 AM).
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You would have to count on Celebi being above ~75% to counter Gyarados which I feel isn't good. I run both Ice Fang and Stone Edge on my own, and there is no gurantee that Gyarados will not run both.

Its a lose-lose situation either way, Kabutops outspeeds Alakazam with Rain up and can net an easy KO, Jirachi will most probably U-turn or just switch to an appropriate pokemon. Regarding Celebi it gets OHKOed by an X-Scissor.
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Old July 31st, 2008 (12:10 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquilae View Post
You would have to count on Celebi being above ~75% to counter Gyarados which I feel isn't good. I run both Ice Fang and Stone Edge on my own, and there is no gurantee that Gyarados will not run both.

Its a lose-lose situation either way, Kabutops outspeeds Alakazam with Rain up and can net an easy KO, Jirachi will most probably U-turn or just switch to an appropriate pokemon. Regarding Celebi it gets OHKOed by an X-Scissor.
That's the whole point. It would SD, expecting me to switch, then I encore the SD.

If it does KO Zam, then I can bring in Gyarados. (51.30% - 60.42% from non SD Stone Edge after Intimidate, Gyarados does 54.45% - 64.06% with Rain up. Factoring in Leftovers, Kabutops fails to 2HKO without a SD, and I will always 2HKO, especially because of Life Orb recoil.)

I know I would need to predict well, but I can get around it...using Theorymon. >_<

~T_S
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The Bank Vault - An XY Trade Thread

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Old July 31st, 2008 (3:17 AM).
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Aquilae Aquilae is offline
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Kabutops is faster... therefore Alakazam would be KOed and Kabutops is running around with an SD owning stuff.
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Ive seen dead tree stumps who get more action
  #33   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old July 31st, 2008 (3:54 AM).
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Ársa Ársa is offline
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you.don't.understand.

Yes, Kabutops is faster, that is what I'm counting on. It sets up on Alakazam while I am in, expecting me to switch out zam. I use encore to encore the SD it used before me.

~T_S
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The Bank Vault - An XY Trade Thread

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Old July 31st, 2008 (3:57 AM).
BobberyJo BobberyJo is offline
 
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The problem with theorymon is that, it's just that, a theory.

While the situation you're suggesting is a perfectly viable one, there could be other ways the situation ends.
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trainerelite switched in Medicham

Blissey used Protect.

Blissey protected itself!

Medicham used Hi Jump Kick.

Blissey protected itself!

Medicham kept going and crashed!

Medicham lost 100% of its health.

BobberyJo Wins!
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Old July 31st, 2008 (4:04 AM).
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...hence it is called theorymon. >_< I admitted that, did I not?

~T_S
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The Bank Vault - An XY Trade Thread

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