US Elections 2008: Debate the Issues

Started by Netto Azure September 2nd, 2008 5:39 PM
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Which party are you voting for? (If you could vote...) Foreigners are welcomed.

Netto Azure

Kiel

Age 30
Male
Alistel, Vainqueur
Seen November 17th, 2021
Posted September 29th, 2021
9,467 posts
15 Years
For after Election Day coverage: US Elections 2008: The Results, Voting Experience and Consequences

Thank you for those who contributed to this thread. It has been my most successful one thus far. I respect your opinions now, you know mines...No hard feelings okay? No offense if I hurt your feelings, I apologize to those who feel hurt. I'll continue contributing but I believe we have said what we could say...You guys are very nice and I admire you for defending your positions. Thank you PC and Administrators for giving me the Opportunity to do this. Even without a blog I was able to keep a record of my opinions in this Historic Election and Moment in our Worlds history. Remember to Vote on November 4, 2008 (or early Vote)

May the American People choose wisely, and God help us all in the problems ahead in our World. "We are all in the same boat no matter our Political disposition." ^_^

------------------------------------
Call me an unusual teenager for liking computers, debates, and politics but we must help our fellow fence-sitters here in PC make an informed decision on the 2008 US Elections. Some would say the Elections don't matter but as we have seen after the 2000 Elections...IT DOES MATTER Just think of a straight line moved slightly...It adds up! the direction changes!
Remember don't let the stupid campaign distraction affect you! (Such as McCain being old and Obama drawing crowds)

Now we know the line up: Obama/Biden for the Democrats and McCain/Palin for the Republicans...Also the third parties if you're for that...Remember Congressional Seats are also up for grabs!!!(Where third parties have better chances...:D)

In anticipation to the Prez and Vice-Prez debates: Show your opinions, debate issues from foreign policy (Foreigners this affects YOU! You are invited to discuss the topics!), to Climate Change (Energy Independence and what-not), to true Universal Healthcare!

Rules & Regulations: All PC rules apply...Please don't name call...be rational...bring evidence (links, summarize them since not everyone is going there) and understand the person on the other side.
(Read this: A lesson in Kindness: http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=151476)

Options on posting: Question & Answer form (Question on top, answer bottom)
Show your candidates opinions on the issues. (As you see it)

Thanks for Participating!!! I might edit this for aesthetic appeal than the wall of text I currently have...

Thread Starter: Should we start drilling for oil offshore?
My Opinion: Not really, I don't see the feasibility of it since it's still the oil companies that will control it. And it's 7 years at least till we see a drop of oil from there.

revelp8

My mohawk is on fiiiyaaaa!

Male
California
Seen July 6th, 2012
Posted April 7th, 2012
522 posts
15 Years
im totally against oil rigging off coasts, seeing as I live in near the coast in cali. i mean, i care about my great-children in the year 2099, but by then, i hope, there would be a newer, reusable energy source.

All it does now, would be polluting our ocean with oil with more oil spills and accidents that decimate our local ecology.

Netto Azure

Kiel

Age 30
Male
Alistel, Vainqueur
Seen November 17th, 2021
Posted September 29th, 2021
9,467 posts
15 Years
im totally against oil rigging off coasts, seeing as I live in near the coast in cali. i mean, i care about my great-children in the year 2099, but by then, i hope, there would be a newer, reusable energy source.

All it does now, would be polluting our ocean with oil with more oil spills and accidents that decimate our local ecology.
I live near San Pedro (South LA) so I'm right beside the Oil Refinaries...I hate the Oil Companies dumping all those chemicals into the air that I'm breathing...so I'm against anything that profits Big Oil...

Netto Azure

Kiel

Age 30
Male
Alistel, Vainqueur
Seen November 17th, 2021
Posted September 29th, 2021
9,467 posts
15 Years
Hey, may I also ask what the point of the republican party in the US is? Said country is already a republic with the sort of ideals a republican party would promote anyway.

Oh and so my other question isn't left in the dust: again, what're the foreign policies they're touting?
Ok...just to make an example of Canada (Hey...hey!!! YOU GUYS ARE VOTING TOO!!! SNAP ELECTIONS ARE BEING HINTED BY PM STEPHEN HARPER!!! TO BREAK YOUR POLITICAL DEADLOCK...WHAT A COINCIDENCE eh?) There are the two major Political parties Liberal and Conservative. (Their names essentially give their positions yet I think the Canadian Conservative party is more liberal than the Democrats.) The two major Political Parties use the names Republican (or GOP Grand Old Party) and Democrat since it has been formalized about 100 years ago to differentiate themselves (and I think because it's neutral sounding.) And anyways people in the US wouldn't really want the name Liberal for the Democrats and Conservative for Republicans. And yes this is technically already a Republic and a Democracy.

Oh...Their "Official" Foreign Policy: It's too long I'll just link it up...(Remember Google is your friend) :D and it's too long to post here.

Barack Obama: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/
John McCain: http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/054184f4-6b51-40dd-8964-54fcf66a1e68.htm
Third Parties: Google it up...to lazy to do so...
New England
Seen April 5th, 2009
Posted September 17th, 2008
156 posts
14.7 Years
Obama is probably going to win. I honestly want Obama to win because he is highly intelligent, young and the best of the two candidates. I say that with the upmost respect. One of the issues that is important to me is getting the troops out of Iraq. The war is needless. McCain supports the war and Obama does not and that is one thing that makes me very happy. On the Death penalty Obama does not support it but he does not want it abolished even though "it does little to deter crimes". Mccain supprts the death penalty. On Guantanemo bay both cadidates do not like it and want it gone. And the last thing I really care about at the moment (all I can really think of) is civil libertys and rights.

Just look here and I believe you will see why I favor Barack Obama.

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-civil-liberties.php

These are just my opinions so please do not flame me. You can surely disagree but please do not say "idiot! obama is a terroorrizt! obama = osama!"

Netto Azure

Kiel

Age 30
Male
Alistel, Vainqueur
Seen November 17th, 2021
Posted September 29th, 2021
9,467 posts
15 Years
New Topic:

Should we get out of Iraq? (Even though George Bush is already going in that direction)

I think so...Iraq was essentially a "blunder" and another imperialistic war for us here in the US (See now we look like a bunch of Hypocrites when Russia "invaded" Georgia)

But then again my Dad's line of thought is "If we get out of Iraq the terrorists comes back in and then we have to go back in AGAIN..." That does make me a little wary...

Alakazam17

Long time no see!

Female
Canada
Seen October 27th, 2020
Posted October 24th, 2020
5,639 posts
17.7 Years
Wow, I'm the only one who picked the last choice. XD

Being an anarchist myself, I think America would be better off without a leader. But seeing as I don't see this happening for another few years, I'd vote Liberal.
Age 29
Male
California
Seen October 21st, 2010
Posted October 20th, 2010
520 posts
15.9 Years
New Topic:

Should we get out of Iraq? (Even though George Bush is already going in that direction)

I think so...Iraq was essentially a "blunder" and another imperialistic war for us here in the US (See now we look like a bunch of Hypocrites when Russia "invaded" Georgia)

But then again my Dad's line of thought is "If we get out of Iraq the terrorists comes back in and then we have to go back in AGAIN..." That does make me a little wary...
Terroists arn't even in Iraq. Therrorists are in Afganistan.
Staying in Iraq was pronounced usless as soon as Sadam lost power.
Sadam is gone, and there is no WMDs.

Being an anarchist myself, I think America would be better off without a leader. But seeing as I don't see this happening for another few years, I'd vote Liberal.
I know it's your opinion, I respect that. However, I do beileve that a real government needs laws and a leader (One who is not a moron).
Some anarchies have rules, but they are not enforced.
Laws are way more effective than rules.
New England
Seen April 5th, 2009
Posted September 17th, 2008
156 posts
14.7 Years
I am an American and I like this country but sometimes the congress and presidents are idiots. Plain and simple. We think we need to be world police and keep everything in order and that is ridiculous. Saddam Husein was right to be punished but to be killed? He was an awful man but he did not deserve to be killed. How would Americans like it if the, let's say, Chinese government came here accusing us of having WMD's, took our leader and hung him? Even though ALOT of people may hate Bush he has no reason to be killed.

We had absolutely no right to go into Iraq and try to change everything. It is not our country and by this happening it has severly hurt our economy. I know if the Chinese government or some other government came into this country with soldiers, false accusations and intent to change our way of life I would be pretty pissed. The war is unnecessary and it crap.
Age 29
Male
California
Seen October 21st, 2010
Posted October 20th, 2010
520 posts
15.9 Years
I am an American and I like this country but sometimes the congress and presidents are idiots. Plain and simple. We think we need to be world police and keep everything in order and that is ridiculous. Saddam Husein was right to be punished but to be killed? He was an awful man but he did not deserve to be killed. How would Americans like it if the, let's say, Chinese government came here accusing us of having WMD's, took our leader and hung him? Even though ALOT of people may hate Bush he has no reason to be killed.

We had absolutely no right to go into Iraq and try to change everything. It is not our country and by this happening it has severly hurt our economy. I know if the Chinese government or some other government came into this country with soldiers, false accusations and intent to change our way of life I would be pretty pissed. The war is unnecessary and it crap.
I agree. Sure, we could help other countries. That would be great.
Unfortunately, The government feels like it has spent too much time and money to just leave Iraq alone. It wants to control it and its oil.

America has vast resources of oil and natural gas – enough oil to power more than 60 million cars for the next six decades and enough natural gas to heat 60 million homes for 160 years, according to government estimates. We may have considerably more resources, since the government conducted their last true inventory in the early 1980s using old data from now-outdated seismic equipment.

The Republicans of course! Don't worry, your never too young to get into politics.
McCain is way too self-centered. All he does is talk about himself and his life stories constantly; Making himself sound superior to the world.
It's sickening. I can't stand it!

Netto Azure

Kiel

Age 30
Male
Alistel, Vainqueur
Seen November 17th, 2021
Posted September 29th, 2021
9,467 posts
15 Years
I hope we can get the ball rolling on universal health care already. It's pretty disgusting and frankly embarassing that we don't have it yet.
It's 10:30 PM (again) here in Wilmington so I'll have a short reply for now...Don't worry I'll address the issues brought up later...(Tomorrow)

Yes I was part of the Harbor-UCLA Summer Youth Health Program here in Wilmington...Our studies this summer was crucial because of the proposed closing of county haspitals in LA (DURING an economic downturn!!!)...We watched "Sicko" and it's sickening on how the Insurance companies and Government treats US Citizens...That is why it's one of my goals to promote TRUE Universal Health-care here in the USA (Lucky, Canada)

Also Allstories I thought you were Republican...(Sorry...I misunderstood you...)
Alone in a dark void
Seen November 5th, 2008
Posted September 26th, 2008
39 posts
14.7 Years
I am a registered independent. I simply believe in what I believe in and do not side with any particular party. However, I do lean mostly to the left.

I will be voting for Ralph Nader, as he holds many of my views and looks as though he would be a competent leader for our country.

I do not trust Barack Obama due to the fact that he has left his half-brother to rot in Africa and apparently has strong Islamic ties. He also lacks the experience necessary to lead our country.

As for John McCain, my sig should sum up what I think of the man. Our country does not need another ultra conservative in office. I am also tired of hearing him tell stories of his days as a POW and trying to get people to feel empathy for him. It sickens me.

Bite the bullet. Watch House M.D. Tuesday nights on Fox.

Netto Azure

Kiel

Age 30
Male
Alistel, Vainqueur
Seen November 17th, 2021
Posted September 29th, 2021
9,467 posts
15 Years
Terroists arn't even in Iraq. Terrorists are in Afganistan.
Staying in Iraq was pronounced usless as soon as Sadam lost power.
Sadam is gone, and there is no WMDs.
Yes...I know that the terrorists are NOT in Iraq...There in the Tribal Pakistani Territories. But by going into Iraq and spending all that money the US Government made the Middle East a worse place because as my dad's line of thought goes...Iraq is too weak to handle it's own security (They are at a political deadlock and their military isn't organized enough to handle the terrorists who would probably try to wrestle control of the country from the "Democratic" Government.)


I agree. Sure, we could help other countries. That would be great.
Unfortunately, The government feels like it has spent too much time and money to just leave Iraq alone. It wants to control it and its oil.

America has vast resources of oil and natural gas – enough oil to power more than 60 million cars for the next six decades and enough natural gas to heat 60 million homes for 160 years, according to government estimates. We may have considerably more resources, since the government conducted their last true inventory in the early 1980s using old data from now-outdated seismic equipment.


McCain is way too self-centered. All he does is talk about himself and his life stories constantly; Making himself sound superior to the world.
It's sickening. I can't stand it!
That is true the Government DOES feel that way...Spent too much resources and manpower to abandon "it" now.

Yes John McCain is relatively self-centered I mean (sorry..) I've heard his POW story a lot of times already and to keep forcing that to our mouths ON EVERY CAMPAIN STOP just to "show" his Patriotism is just too much. I mean don't question someone elses Patriotism just because he wasn't a Veteran like yourself. If you want the betterment of your fellow citizen YOUR A PATRIOT. And not enough Flag-Waving and singing of the national anthem can top that.

And yes John McCain is somewhat like Cotton Hill.
Alone in a dark void
Seen November 5th, 2008
Posted September 26th, 2008
39 posts
14.7 Years
Except he is not ultra conservative. Notice they needed Palin to balance him out.
It is clear that he only nominated Palin as his VP to get the female vote. Many women are angry at Obama for nominating Joe Biden as his VP instead of Hillary Clinton. Therefore, by nominating Palin, McCain will get many women to vote for him, since he (unlike Obama) chose a woman as his running mate. Pretty clever tactic, if I do say so myself.

Also, if you knew anything about his history, you would know that he is quite the slimy philanderer.

Bite the bullet. Watch House M.D. Tuesday nights on Fox.
Age 33
Seen June 2nd, 2014
Posted January 23rd, 2012
2,010 posts
19.7 Years
I do not trust Barack Obama due to the fact that he has left his half-brother to rot in Africa and apparently has strong Islamic ties. He also lacks the experience necessary to lead our country.
1. He barely knows this brother. Why does he owe anything to this brother that he doesn't know, who doesn't seem to care much about him either, and who is just living as people in Kenya live?
2. Obama is not a muslim.
3. He was a community organizer in Chicago, a college law professor, a civil rights attorney, President of Harvard Law Review, he was in the Illinois senate for eight years, and the US senate for four. That sounds pretty experienced to me. What the hell else do you want?

Netto Azure

Kiel

Age 30
Male
Alistel, Vainqueur
Seen November 17th, 2021
Posted September 29th, 2021
9,467 posts
15 Years
1. He barely knows this brother. Why does he owe anything to this brother that he doesn't know, who doesn't seem to care much about him either, and who is just living as people in Kenya live?
2. Obama is not a muslim.
3. He was a community organizer in Chicago, a college law professor, a civil rights attorney, President of Harvard Law Review, he was in the Illinois senate for eight years, and the US senate for four. That sounds pretty experienced to me. What the hell else do you want?
That is true (# 1 & 2)...Those are just rumors sent out by the conservative right (Old "normal" politics) to cast doubt on Obama...And they SAY they won't go into the negative and start partisan politics...Such hypocrytical rhetoric...

txteclipse

The Last

Age 32
Riverside
Seen March 23rd, 2023
Posted November 2nd, 2016
2,322 posts
15.7 Years
How would Americans like it if the, let's say, Chinese government came here accusing us of having WMD's, took our leader and hung him?
They wouldn't, because we wouldn't crash planes into their buildings.

Iraq is a tricky business. There's simply a lot of unknowns. I agree that it's been going on for a long time, but I seriously doubt we can simply leave without there being at least some negative consequences. Pulling out slowly seems the best idea at the moment.

It is clear that he only nominated Palin as his VP to get the female vote.
And because she's freaking awesome. One of the major (and few) reasons I'm voting for McCain because I want her to be VP. That said (and in explanation of why I said "few"), I don't really like any of the current candidates. Obama is the changing wizard of changing change, and McCain is the warmonger.

EDIT: and about that Obama-McCain comparison site. I'd love to point out a few things.

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-cuba.php

People love to say that Democrats wouldn't impose U.S. policy on other places. Well, look at the last bullet on Obama's list.

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-budget.php

McCain is much more in-depth. And holy crap...look at that first bullet on McCain's side.

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-business-labor.php

Again, McCain is more developed. And he has a plan for the future. Look what he's saying there about staying competitive in the world economy.

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-deficit.php

I had to laugh.

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-economy.php

This one is half and half for me. Obama wants to help a lot of people, but I have no idea where he's going to find all that money. McCain wants to invest in future technology (new energy sources, without doubt, being among these). That means some people won't be helped, but if we save a lot of money by changing to new technology, we could potentially help more people in the end.

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-education-issue.php

Obama has some good stuff here, but I love how McCain wants student-centric education. He wants students to learn and be inspired, not just coast through classes.

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-energy.php

This is kinda "meh" for me. Clean nuclear power would be a godsend, so I'll give McCain credit for that, but I don't like the offshore drilling thing. Obama is misdirected, on the other hand: biofuel #1 is almost as expensive as regular gasoline and #2 uses crops, which will drive the price of food up. Which would you rather pay more for: food or gas?

THis is getting lengthy, and I'm getting tired, so I'll stop now. Might do the rest later, might not.

Aurafire

provider of cake

Age 32
Male
New York
Seen April 25th, 2017
Posted November 8th, 2011
5,735 posts
15 Years
1. He barely knows this brother. Why does he owe anything to this brother that he doesn't know, who doesn't seem to care much about him either, and who is just living as people in Kenya live?
2. Obama is not a muslim.
3. He was a community organizer in Chicago, a college law professor, a civil rights attorney, President of Harvard Law Review, he was in the Illinois senate for eight years, and the US senate for four. That sounds pretty experienced to me. What the hell else do you want?
Not very experienced when you take into account that he voted "present" over 100 times instead of simply saying yes or no....not getting you much experience if you don't actually participate. Though it's not surprising he's voted "present" that many times, since our useless congress doesn't do a thing anyway.

Look, he has some political experience. Compared to McCain though, it's laughable. For those of you that actually took the time to watch McCain's speech last night (not many I'm assuming), you would have seen his determination, resolve, and love for America. You would have seen a man ready to lead.

Let me tell you all a little something about Barack Obama: he's absolutely the most liberal politician ever to be elected. You may ask "So what?" Well I'll tell you what.

You think his massive tax increase is going to be good for America? False. The large corporations and wealthy entrepreneurs that drive this country's economy will be handcuffed with taxes. What does that mean? You're job is gone, and that company will move overseas. The people with the highest income will stop investing. Small business owners will be smothered with no room for growth. Essentially, the economy gets worse than it already is.

What about healthcare? Universal looks good on paper, but get ready for some crappy coverage. Without competition, quality of care goes down the toilet. You can't "socialize" medicine. Why do you think people become doctors? Competitive salaries. If healthcare is socialized, they have no more incentive. Why should one doctor work harder than another doctor if they're getting paid exactly the same salary? Sure, doctors are very caring and they want to help, but that six figure check in their wallet doesn't look too bad either. Now, I’m not stupid, I know our system needs reforming to help everyone out. People genuinely cannot afford health care, but socialization is NOT the way to do it.

Even on the War in Iraq, Obama has no “real” stance. He’s been an anti-war democrat for his entire career in the Senate, voted against the surge, and now, since most of the country believes that the surge is working, he says “Well...Iraq was still a mistake, the real fight is in Afganistan.” Anyone with half a brain could tell you that there are terrorists both in Afghanistan AND Iraq. Iraq may have been mismanaged, but don’t tell me that there was no threat there. Iraq was a haven for terrorism, and you really are flat out blind if you can’t see it. John McCain knows that, Obama doesn’t. He’s using the public’s discontent with the war to get him votes. It’s pandering at it’s absolute worst. He goes to wherever the votes go...which is why he has practically no personal stance on any issue.

His strategy is so simple, but people are too dumb to see it (not anyone here, just people in general). Every one of his policies looks great on paper, and he’s great at delivering his message. “Vote for me, and I will heal America”. I ask everyone to look just a bit closer at what he really wants, because if you’re young and blindly follow whatever you hear, you’re playing right into his strategy. He’s relying on you to not inform yourself about what he really wants. He hides behind his uplifting message and his “too good to be true” plan to heal America, and the everyday American, frustrated with the way our country is going, becomes infatuated with him. What he really wants is to move our country towards socialism, make it so that everyone can win and no one loses. Well people, life has winners and losers, and no amount of political skill can change that.

You might call me stubborn, stupid, ignorant, cruel, uncaring, crazy or anything else you might feel about me. All I can tell you is that I care about America, and so does John McCain. Under all the flowery and dressed up nonsense that Obama calls “policies” , what he really cares about is himself and getting elected. Again, use any of those words above to describe me, but don’t you dare fault me for caring about my country. I don’t pretend to be “enlightened” or “above” anyone else, and apologize if I come off that way. But I do call myself informed, and truth be told, most Americans are not.

I don’t mind if you support Obama. I do mind if you blindly support him and don’t know what he stands for. And you may not agree with me, but based on what he says and what he believes in, you’d be doing yourself a great dishonor if you didn’t take a closer look. I’m not jumping down anyone’s throats or anything.

And I’m not saying “If you vote for Obama, you’re stupid.” I just want people to be informed. Don’t believe everything you hear, because if Obama does get elected, there’s no way he can live up to all the hype he’s created.