Evolution of Hacking

Kike-Scott said:

This thread is about the progress of the Rom-hacking throug the time.
Starting from the GameBoy Era, we already get amazed with some cool hacks, like Pokémon Brown or Prism (This isn't that old, as I know, but it's a GBC hack). GB was always a challenge due the lack of tools, but, there were decent hacks.
Then the GBA era came with the amazing EliteMap Suite, made by Kyoufu Kawa and his team. As of 2008, there are many tools that replace that old suite, but in that time Kawa was the "Messiah". Many good hacks came up on this time frame.
But now, the 4th Generation of Pokémon and Rom-Hacking has come (In fact, it camed 2 years ago), the only thing I'm asking right now is: Where are the DPP hacks?
Guys, come on, this isn't like a 108-characther password, for being such an unbreakable thing. Right, hackers are discovering new this these days, there are some people interested on it, like pichu2000 (it reminds me of Pika, for some reason).
I'm quite dissapointed as people has taken DPP hacking as a joke rather than a serious business. We can see people spamming in that thread (and possibly, they may come to this one too, sadly).

People, keep posting your own toughts about the Rom-Hacking story and the actual situation, as well the history of Rom-Hacking itself (Pokémon-related).

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If I remember correctly Baro originally wrote Elitemap, there were also good red hacks before Brown, like OIA, and Aqua.

im afraid its not that its a joke, its more of the fact that as we get better at hacking, nintendo gets better at creating games, d/p/p is a 3D world, as we are used to 2d, currently the only thing we can really change is pallette's, pokemon, in game trades, charecters, and some other little things, map hacking or editing is very hard because it is 3D, im not even sure if we will ever even master it..

Kike-Scott said:

But now, the 4th Generation of Pokémon and Rom-Hacking has come (In fact, it camed 2 years ago), the only thing I'm asking right now is: Where are the DPP hacks?
Guys, come on, this isn't like a 108-characther password, for being such an unbreakable thing. Right, hackers are discovering new this these days, there are some people interested on it, like pichu2000 (it reminds me of Pika, for some reason).
I'm quite dissapointed as people has taken DPP hacking as a joke rather than a serious business. We can see people spamming in that thread (and possibly, they may come to this one too, sadly).

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Here's what I think. If we look back in time hacking with a hex editor was common, right? And to hack a ROM like Pokemon Blue, being able to use a hex editor was required. If we fast forward to today, it's almost completely flipped. The majority of hackers here frightened by hex and treat it as taboo. That's why we only have few
I mean I don't take DP hacking seriously right now, as all we have is Buffy's horrible Bloody Diamond, and that's what people here seem to think what DP hacking is, when there's more information around.
And the only reason the DP thread is being spammed is because there is still at least one post every two pages asking for a DP advancemap. And there's people who post thinking they know what they're doing that need to be 'shot down'.
I just think that for DP hacking to be taken seriously, we need hacking to return to the way it used to be, with people not being intimidated by hexadecimal.

PokeProphet said:

im afraid its not that its a joke, its more of the fact that as we get better at hacking, nintendo gets better at creating games, d/p/p is a 3D world, as we are used to 2d, currently the only thing we can really change is pallette's, pokemon, in game trades, charecters, and some other little things, map hacking or editing is very hard because it is 3D, im not even sure if we will ever even master it..

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I disagree, I don't think people are getting better at hacking. I think the community is just getting better and more reliable tools.
And I wouldn't go around talking about things you have no idea about. At the moment the majority of hackers just think that Buffy has included everything that's possible with DP hacking. There's a lot more going on behind the scenes than you realise. There's people like Gabe(E-Bag) and loadingnow who can do more than what's been publicly shown so far. If either of those two (or some others) make a serious hack, or help on a serious hack, DP hacking will be taken seriously.

Hmmmm... I guess that perhaps it's still too early for DPP hacking? Probably in a year or so it'll become more often, but the thing is that, as long as there is no mapping and scripting, DPP hacking wont give you an appealing hack. That's why the new rom hackers decide to stick with the advance generation, because it currently gives you more possibilities (as there are more tools released)

Kike-Scott said:

the only thing I'm asking right now is: Where are the DPP hacks?

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to be very honest, I was planing on hacking diamond, but I'm not as far as experienced that I can work without tools, so I can't even change a map for now on…
the only thing I can do atm is changing the ingame pokemon stuffs…
but once a mapping tool is out I'll get to work ;)

Kike-Scott said:

This thread is about the progress of the Rom-hacking throug the time.
Starting from the GameBoy Era, we already get amazed with some cool hacks, like Pokémon Brown or Prism (This isn't that old, as I know, but it's a GBC hack). GB was always a challenge due the lack of tools, but, there were decent hacks.
Then the GBA era came with the amazing EliteMap Suite, made by Kyoufu Kawa and his team. As of 2008, there are many tools that replace that old suite, but in that time Kawa was the "Messiah". Many good hacks came up on this time frame.
But now, the 4th Generation of Pokémon and Rom-Hacking has come (In fact, it camed 2 years ago), the only thing I'm asking right now is: Where are the DPP hacks?
Guys, come on, this isn't like a 108-characther password, for being such an unbreakable thing. Right, hackers are discovering new this these days, there are some people interested on it, like pichu2000 (it reminds me of Pika, for some reason).
I'm quite dissapointed as people has taken DPP hacking as a joke rather than a serious business. We can see people spamming in that thread (and possibly, they may come to this one too, sadly).

People, keep posting your own toughts about the Rom-Hacking story and the actual situation, as well the history of Rom-Hacking itself (Pokémon-related).

Click to expand...

the reason people aren't hacking d/p much is there are no map editing tools.

I mean, who wants to play a hack that has exactly the same maps as the base? Ok, if you include the "real" region IN ADDITION to a fake region, you don't have to edit it that much, but so far there are NO map editing tools for d/p, at least none that I know of at the time of this post...

Well technically although no map editor has been made there is a good way of starting off a map editor for dpp. How? Ok take the game super mario 64. It is a 3d game which takes polygons. Now if some of you didnt know dp uses polygons. But the polygons dont come in peices. They come in wholes. The look of the building is called a texture. So in SM64 map editor they have polygons and textures. Now for dp if they can extract the polygons and textures you could have a pretty good base for a map editor. That is all i have to say botu that. Why? Cau =se the map editor can be done but no one has. So i say wait a bit and dpp hacks should come in a bit. Wait did no one think of this? Cause if so im off to the thread!

actually no, not only are you rude, but obviously quite ignorant as well, if your so smart why dont you go and create a map hacking tool for d/p/p? it is the fact that its in 3D that keeps development in mapping tools down, i realize there are some out there who are figuring it out, but im not speaking as if i know everything about the game and its hacking either.

What? Acually thats basically what most of the trees and buildings are. Polygons ad textures.

I think that the fact that there are so many tools for Advance generation hacking has made many people lazy. They are used to having tools so they don't have to learn how to hack with a hex editor.

I think that all these people that are just asking for a map editor (or tools in general) have to realize that making a tool takes hard work and more restrictively alot of time. We can get much farther with many people working, I think mainly because we can have more combined time working on it.

To people asking for DP hacking tools:
Why don't you guys step up to the challenge of developing the tools you want?
No matter what your level of knowledge, you can learn if you want to.
There is alot of research to be done and the more people we have working one it the better off we are.

Sure we may not all be as good as loadingNOW, Pichu2000, E-bag, etc but they only have a certain amount of time to work on this. There is plenty of things we could do if the effort is put in to learn how to edit with a hex editor.

mystery dragon fang said:

to be very honest, I was planing on hacking diamond, but I'm not as far as experienced that I can work without tools, so I can't even change a map for now on…
the only thing I can do atm is changing the ingame pokemon stuffs…
but once a mapping tool is out I'll get to work ;)

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You are not going to get any more experience by just saying that and not trying to learn.

zel said:

Hmmmm... I guess that perhaps it's still too early for DPP hacking? Probably in a year or so it'll become more often, but the thing is that, as long as there is no mapping and scripting, DPP hacking wont give you an appealing hack. That's why the new rom hackers decide to stick with the advance generation, because it currently gives you more possibilities (as there are more tools released)

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To those new ROM hackers, I ask: Would you rather be known for using a program to make a ROM hack, or for making a program that people use to make rom hacks?

poddish said:

the reason people aren't hacking d/p much is there are no map editing tools.

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There's alot more to hacking than editing a map with a program. In my opinion that's not even hacking. That's just using a program.

Kike-Scott said:

I see people saying things like "People souldn't be afraid to use Hex, instead of asking for some map editor". Well, the point here is: If you do GOOD map hacking with hex, like building a whole city or something, that would take A LOT of time.

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That's absolutely correct. A hex editor and the ability to use it are indispensable in hacking, but doing everything manually is just inefficient. Things like map editing and repointing are best left to programs of some sort. In fact, I would say that knowing some sort of scripting language is as important as knowing hex just for the time it saves to make your own tool.

Kike-Scott said:

Also, something that bugs me out is the fact that there's a "Secret DP map editor", I mean, if you aren't going to sell your software, there's not a reason for don't make it open source, specially when the tool needs development.

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Some people don't want their work to be released until it's "done," or at least in a usable state. I have tons of documentation on GSC that I've written up, but there's no way I would be releasing it anytime soon—because it's in formats that I understand but that would be incomprehensible to anybody else. And in particular with a map editor for D/P… well, so many people do mindlessly ask for it that I can see why whoever is working on it would not want its presence widely known.

Kike I agree with you all the way. I guarantee you that every member who has posted their "hacks" in the Scrapbox or Hacks Showcase has the potential to make it nice, enjoying and wonderful. They CAN put the effort into it; they just choose NOT too, whether they be a "n00b" or a common member. It's not necessarily that they're lazy. MOST (note I am saying most, not all) "hackers" just "make" hacks just for the fame or attention or posts.

They're a couple of people here who have posted hacks in which they actually continued and work really hard on it (them). I'm sure many of you know who DestinedJagold is, right? Well many people aswell as hackers don't really like his hacks. Why? Well most of the time it's because "his graphics suck or "he just puts random crap together". May I remind you that it's not always about the graphics. Sure nice graphics are cool, but it's the gameplay that's the core. Ever played Super Mario World before? Not the best graphics. Yet it SOLD MILLIONS.

DJG's hacks are some of the funnest, most enjoyable hacks I've ever played. Tools are used help people; using them does not mean you are lazy. If you know HEX and are good at it, by all means go for it! No ones stopping you.

Kike-Scott said:

I see people saying things like "People souldn't be afraid to use Hex, instead of asking for some map editor". Well, the point here is: If you do GOOD map hacking with hex, like building a whole city or something, that would take A LOT of time.
Come on people, be realistic, tools aren't just for the lazy ones, also for the smart ones. Not using tools will be like repeating actions on programming, instead of using loops.
Hex it's ok, for research and minor changes, but, if we want to do good map hacking, WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TOOLS.
I'm not asking any here. Also some people constantly says: "It's easier ask than actually make one", of course that's right, but no one said it was easy. The only thing that people do is show interest on a tool.
Also, something that bugs me out is the fact that there's a "Secret DP map editor", I mean, if you aren't going to sell your software, there's not a reason for don't make it open source, specially when the tool needs development.

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Of course a hex editor should not be used exclusively.
I recently needed to make 65535 different pokemon files (change their PID and IVs). Now I could have done this all with a hex editor. But that would have taken very long. So instead, I wrote up a program that did this for me.
Yes, I used a tool to get the job done quickly. But I had to learn all the structure and the appropriate hex values, addresses in order to be able to do it. If I had not learned that first there is no way I could have made that program.

So, what I was getting at is that people should research using a hex editor rather than sitting around until a tool is made.

Think about it this way: If everyone decided to just wait around until someone makes a tool, then no one would ever make a tool.

On the other hand if everyone decided that they should try to figure things out so that they could help make a tool, then we would have a tool much quicker.

The goal right now should not be to make a complete DP hack, like the ones we have for Advance. The goal should be to gather information that will lead to a tool that can then be used to make complete hacks.

Such tools will come faster if we halp gather information for the people who would write the programs.

PokeProphet said:

actually no, not only are you rude, but obviously quite ignorant as well, if your so smart why dont you go and create a map hacking tool for d/p/p? it is the fact that its in 3D that keeps development in mapping tools down, i realize there are some out there who are figuring it out, but im not speaking as if i know everything about the game and its hacking either.

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Although I don't see how I was being rude, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be. My problem with your post is something that displays a common misperception of DP hacking.

PokeProphet said:

currently the only thing we can really change is pallette's, pokemon, in game trades, charecters, and some other little things.... im not even sure if we will ever even master it.

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This is what I was referring to. That is what has been edited in Buffy's Bloody Diamond, not what some more experienced hackers can do with the ROM (I don't mean me). I don't want to name the person, but from what I heard from gabe (I think it was gabe, It was a while ago), is that a person, that I won't name so that he doesn't get bombarded with things, is currently working on a basic DP Mapping Tool. I don't believe it's fully functional yet, but it's that you think people have released every bit of information that they have. I have got crap on my computer regarding things to do with GBA Pokemon games, that I've never posted. I've got things on MD Red scripting that I haven't released, and I've probably got some data on some other games I've tried to hack. I might even have some DP pointers I'm not sure.
But my point is, people keep things secret, not all information is shared.

thethethethe said:

But my point is, people keep things secret, not all information is shared.

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Exactly, that's my whole point, there's no reason for keeping this kind of stuff for yourself, if you can help another people with it.

Yes, but some of that stuff might NOT help others and therefore does not need to be released immediately.

None of the newer hackers take hacking seriously. They start one project, then the next day start another. Then, they try and make 3 at a time. And finally then leave without telling anyone.

You can't expect the people who can't hack WITH tools to hack WITHOUT tools. -.- When I first joined PC, you NEEDED to understand Hex to hack. Tools were difficult to find, and we had nowhere near as many tutorials at the time. Anyway, my point is. People need to learn to hack before you can expect them to hack. Otherwise you get half-arsed hacks that never even get an alpha released. -.-

*flies away*