3rd Gen Strongest pokemon up to R/S/E

Started by Jaredz99 October 28th, 2008 6:09 AM
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Seen November 11th, 2008
Posted October 30th, 2008
10 posts
14.6 Years
Ok here are the rules for these posts.
1. You have to present a pokemon, not including ubers or legendaries, and defend it as the strongest pokemon in the game up to R/S/E.
2. A moveset is required, with an explanation, and a hold item. EV training is not required, but it would probably help you make your case.
3. No "ZOMG BLAZIKEN FTW HE PWNS ALL N00BS". Please, have a real reason for what you are suggesting.

I believe that the strongest pokemon is heracross. Monster ATK stat, decent defense and speed. Biggest problem is a 4x flying weakness, but that can be covered with Rock Slide. Anyway, here is my Heracross:
Heracross [email protected] Berry

Megahorn
A 120 ATK move w/STAB is always good.

Endure
Purely to set up Reversal.

Reversal
Endure + Salac Berry + STAB = Almost guaranteed OHKO

Rock Slide
Flying types begone! Rock slide owns you all.

EVs:
252 ATK (obviously)
252 SPD (this is a personal choice, cuz Salac Berries aren't easy to find)
6 in whatever
Age 51
Utah
Seen July 27th, 2010
Posted July 26th, 2010
2,811 posts
17.3 Years
The most powerful Pokemon in the game (including Ubers/Legendaries) is Snorlax. It single-handedly changed the entire metagame. It is feared in every version of the game, and a good competitive battler MUST account for it while constructing their team. While it has a good number of effective movesets, there is nothing more powerful than Curelax:

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 144 HP / 68 Atk / 132 Def / 164 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Body Slam/Return
- Curse
- Rest
- Shadow Ball/Earthquake/Fire Blast

First of all, outside of Blissey, Snorlax is the best special wall in the game. High base SDef (110) and HP (160), along with no weakness to special moves allows this to switch in on a special attacker, and give a free Curse while the opponent switches out. Anyone not familiar with Curse should know that while it is a Ghost move that drops the target's HP by 1/4 each turn, if a non-Ghost Pokemon uses it their Atk and Def will increase one stage (50% increase) while their Spd will decrease one stage instead. Basically, it seems this alternate effect was created with Snorlax in mind. Since Snorlax is already not swift afoot, the decrease in Spd doesn't matter, but the Atk/Def is what turns this sleepy giant into a team sweeper.

The basic concept is use Curse multiple times, allowing your opponent to attack, then Rest to cure all lost HP and rid it of any status, and then proceed to destroy any opponent. The rest of the moveset is basically preference. Body Slam might not have the power that Return does, but its paralyzing effect can make up for it. Personally, I would go for the power since Body Slam would require an extra Curse to do equal or more damage to Return, meaning Return allows you to start attacking sooner. Shadow Ball rips through Ghosts and Psychics that are stupid enough to stay in, but Earthquake takes down Tyranitar and Metagross. Fire Blast is for the truly paranoid, that fear Skarmory or even Forretress the most.

Simply the best.
Age 51
Utah
Seen July 27th, 2010
Posted July 26th, 2010
2,811 posts
17.3 Years
I am afraid "Heracross is much better" and "Curselax is bleh" fail miserably as arguments. Here, again, are the reasons why Snorlax is the best:

- High base HP and SAtk, along with its type, allow it to absorb many special attacks.
- It's lack of speed make it the perfect candidate for Curse.
- Curse increases its Atk and Def by 1 level every time it is used. (I believe the max is 6)
- It can withstand physical attacks as easily as special attacks after 2 Curses.
- Rest replenishes ALL lost HP and curses it of ANY status ailment.
- After using Rest, it cannot attack for two turns, while the opponent has to, giving it an advantage in stalling against almost all other Pokemon.

I didn't mention the many other movesets that Snorlax can use (namely Stalkerlax which is my favorite) because all of them are inferior to Curselax. It is this moveset that makes it such a beast and the strongest Pokemon in the game.

Circuit

Wiring your Circuits

Age 27
Male
Berlin
Seen January 6th, 2021
Posted July 29th, 2020
4,815 posts
15.2 Years
I am afraid "Heracross is much better" and "Curselax is bleh" fail miserably as arguments. Here, again, are the reasons why Snorlax is the best:

- High base HP and SAtk, along with its type, allow it to absorb many special attacks.
- It's lack of speed make it the perfect candidate for Curse.
- Curse increases its Atk and Def by 1 level every time it is used. (I believe the max is 6)
- It can withstand physical attacks as easily as special attacks after 2 Curses.
- Rest replenishes ALL lost HP and curses it of ANY status ailment.
- After using Rest, it cannot attack for two turns, while the opponent has to, giving it an advantage in stalling against almost all other Pokemon.

I didn't mention the many other movesets that Snorlax can use (namely Stalkerlax which is my favorite) because all of them are inferior to Curselax. It is this moveset that makes it such a beast and the strongest Pokemon in the game.
I agree that Curselax is a beast in the meta game. It's attacks suit it well and I would choose the Shadow Ball. Although I haven't been able to get one for a while now.

Milke

Chill it an' spill it.

Age 29
Pennsylvania, USA
Seen February 4th, 2011
Posted August 8th, 2010
816 posts
15.6 Years
I am afraid "Heracross is much better" and "Curselax is bleh" fail miserably as arguments. Here, again, are the reasons why Snorlax is the best:

- High base HP and SAtk, along with its type, allow it to absorb many special attacks.
- It's lack of speed make it the perfect candidate for Curse.
- Curse increases its Atk and Def by 1 level every time it is used. (I believe the max is 6)
- It can withstand physical attacks as easily as special attacks after 2 Curses.
- Rest replenishes ALL lost HP and curses it of ANY status ailment.
- After using Rest, it cannot attack for two turns, while the opponent has to, giving it an advantage in stalling against almost all other Pokemon.

I didn't mention the many other movesets that Snorlax can use (namely Stalkerlax which is my favorite) because all of them are inferior to Curselax. It is this moveset that makes it such a beast and the strongest Pokemon in the game.


- High base HP and SAtk, along with its type, allow it to absorb many special attacks.

Ok, first of all, it has a SAtk base stat of 65, which is hardly high. Also Blissey and many other special walls can special wall much better than Curselax.

It's lack of speed make it the perfect candidate for Curse.

This is true, but who says a wall has to be fast? Any wall could have curse and use it - they dont have to be slow to use curse, almost any sweeper will outspeed them anyway.

Curse increases its Atk and Def by 1 level every time it is used. (I believe the max is 6)

Thank you captain obvious. But seriously, many other pokemon can use curse as well.

Rest replenishes ALL lost HP and curses it of ANY status ailment.

Captain Obvious strikes again! Pretty much ANY pokemon can learn rest, FYI.

After using Rest, it cannot attack for two turns, while the opponent has to, giving it an advantage in stalling against almost all other Pokemon.

Ok...not quite seeing your logic here...having a two turn loss of movement is good how?

Why is the opponent at a DISADVANTAGE because they can attack? This makes no sense.


Any other arguments?

I'll admit, Curselax and his brethren are cool, but he is NOT the best pokemon. Not by a long shot.
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groudonlover

Mateus readies Hellfire...

Male
Lilycove City, Hoenn
Seen November 29th, 2009
Posted November 15th, 2009
537 posts
14.7 Years
All of the strongest pokemons are ethier legendary or über(the über means über-powerful pokemon, why else should it be called über!)
But Breloom is almost unbeatable if trained right!
Moveset:
Giga Drain
Leech Seed
Sky Uppercut
(something... currently Strength in lack of better moves...)
Nature & EV's: I don't really care that much of that... Something with +Atk or +SAtk

Or maybe Milotic:
Moveset:
Recover
Ice Beam
Surf
Hypnosis/Dragonbreath
Natures & EV's: Modest and if you have time, all EV's in Sp. Atk and Speed/Defense

Circuit

Wiring your Circuits

Age 27
Male
Berlin
Seen January 6th, 2021
Posted July 29th, 2020
4,815 posts
15.2 Years
Hmm Curselax is strong but now I'm remembering my old Blaziken. It was awesome. With Sky Uppercut and Blaze Kick it was my best. Now I think it might be Blaziken. Yes.
Age 51
Utah
Seen July 27th, 2010
Posted July 26th, 2010
2,811 posts
17.3 Years
Comments in bold:
- High base HP and SAtk, along with its type, allow it to absorb many special attacks.

Ok, first of all, it has a SAtk base stat of 65, which is hardly high. Also Blissey and many other special walls can special wall much better than Curselax.

Typo. That was meant SDef, not SAtk. SAtk obviously has nothing to do with the ability to absorb attacks. Blissey, Regice, and Umby wall better, but none of them benefit from Curse the way Snorlax does. Which is the real point of pointing out that it can wall, causing a switch, which gives Snorlax a free Curse. It has the highest base Atk of any special wall.

It's lack of speed make it the perfect candidate for Curse.

This is true, but who says a wall has to be fast? Any wall could have curse and use it - they dont have to be slow to use curse, almost any sweeper will outspeed them anyway.

Again, the point isn't it being a wall, the point is that its ability to take hits and the fact that it doesn't rely on speed make it the best candidate for Curse.

Curse increases its Atk and Def by 1 level every time it is used. (I believe the max is 6)

Thank you captain obvious. But seriously, many other pokemon can use curse as well.

Again, other Pokemon can use it (like Swampert), but are not set up as well as Snorlax.

Rest replenishes ALL lost HP and curses it of ANY status ailment.

Captain Obvious strikes again! Pretty much ANY pokemon can learn rest, FYI.

Not sure what point you are trying to make here. The fact that other Pokemon can learn Rest too doesn't mean anything..

After using Rest, it cannot attack for two turns, while the opponent has to, giving it an advantage in stalling against almost all other Pokemon.

Ok...not quite seeing your logic here...having a two turn loss of movement is good how?

Why is the opponent at a DISADVANTAGE because they can attack? This makes no sense.

It makes sense when your opponent attempts to outstall Snorlax since they no longer have the ability to KO it. Not quite as cool as Lugia's Pressure, but still effective.

Any other arguments?

I'll admit, Curselax and his brethren are cool, but he is NOT the best pokemon. Not by a long shot.

And yet you still have not provided a valid argument as to what Pokemon is better than Snorlax.
Hmm Curselax is strong but now I'm remembering my old Blaziken. It was awesome. With Sky Uppercut and Blaze Kick it was my best. Now I think it might be Blaziken. Yes.
Except Blaziken suffers from bad typing, poor base Def and HUGE weaknesses to two of the most common moves in the game - Earthquake and Surf.
I live in England :D
Seen November 22nd, 2011
Posted August 10th, 2010
21 posts
14.6 Years
Skarmory is possibly one of the strongest pokemon ever, being immune to 2 types and being resistant to 9 types and only being weak against 2 types and 4 other types giving average damage, with this moveset, it is very strong:

Air Slash
Damage: 75
Accuracy: 95%
PP: 20

Rock Slide
Damage: 75
Accuracy: 95%
PP: 10

Night Slash
Damage: 70
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 15

Steel Wing
Damage: 70
Accuracy: 90%
PP: 25

It is stronger against Electric than Fire as most Electric moves are physical with Skarmorys being very strong in Defense, but Fire is most effective as the moves are Special and Skarmorys being quite weak in SP.Def.

Also, with Razor Claw, Skarmorys can be very effective!
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My Non-Ledgendary Team (IT PWNZ! :P):

My Team:
Raichu
Flygon
Dragonite
Nidoking
Starmie
Metagross

Wanna Trade/Battle :P

Kings PokePet
Executor the level 77 Dragonite!

I do non-competitive battles, just for fun!

Age 30
We all live in a Pokemon World.
Seen December 5th, 2008
Posted October 29th, 2008
12 posts
14.6 Years
Although Snorlax is strong, I think that Lapras is the strongest Pokemon.

Lapras's greatest weakness is electric attacks, though even these do not do a great deal of damage to Lapras. Lapras can also learn a variety of super effective attacks which make it nearly invincible.

A Lapras with an Enigma Berry is. . . . just unstoppable.

Ice Beam
Ice Beam is a very effective attack that does quite a bit of damage, and may freeze the opponent. This attack is one of my personal favorites due to it's high accuracy rate.

Thunderbolt
This attack can be learned by Lapras [I taught it to mine yesterday] and it protects Lapras from its slight disadvantage to other water types. This attack, like Ice Beam, has a possibility to incapacitate the opponent.

Psychic
Another attack that has an occasional dual effect ---- psychic in itself is a very powerful attack, but it may also confuse the opponent.

Hydro Pump
Hydro Pump is just a very powerful attack.

That is why Lapras is the best. Ever.
Age 51
Utah
Seen July 27th, 2010
Posted July 26th, 2010
2,811 posts
17.3 Years
Skarmory is possibly one of the strongest pokemon ever, being immune to 2 types and being resistant to 9 types and only being weak against 2 types and 4 other types giving average damage, with this moveset, it is very strong:

Air Slash
Damage: 75
Accuracy: 95%
PP: 20

Rock Slide
Damage: 75
Accuracy: 95%
PP: 10

Night Slash
Damage: 70
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 15

Steel Wing
Damage: 70
Accuracy: 90%
PP: 25

It is stronger against Electric than Fire as most Electric moves are physical with Skarmorys being very strong in Defense, but Fire is most effective as the moves are Special and Skarmorys being quite weak in SP.Def.

Also, with Razor Claw, Skarmorys can be very effective!
Skarmory is definitely one of the strongest Pokemon. It's problem though is that it is limited offensively, and has no way around its Fire and Electric weaknesses. Also, this thread is about Pokemon up to RSE, so your moveset, while strong, is not legal.

Although Snorlax is strong, I think that Lapras is the strongest Pokemon.

Lapras's greatest weakness is electric attacks, though even these do not do a great deal of damage to Lapras. Lapras can also learn a variety of super effective attacks which make it nearly invincible.

A Lapras with an Enigma Berry is. . . . just unstoppable.

Ice Beam
Ice Beam is a very effective attack that does quite a bit of damage, and may freeze the opponent. This attack is one of my personal favorites due to it's high accuracy rate.

Thunderbolt
This attack can be learned by Lapras [I taught it to mine yesterday] and it protects Lapras from its slight disadvantage to other water types. This attack, like Ice Beam, has a possibility to incapacitate the opponent.

Psychic
Another attack that has an occasional dual effect ---- psychic in itself is a very powerful attack, but it may also confuse the opponent.

Hydro Pump
Hydro Pump is just a very powerful attack.

That is why Lapras is the best. Ever.
Lapras is another strong Pokemon, but there is a reason it is in the BL tier instead of OU like Snorlax and Blissey. Snorlax has higher base HP, SDef, and a much higher Atk. Not to mention it doesn't have any special weaknesses. I am a big Lapras fan myself, but it just isn't quite in Snorlax's class.
Seen June 30th, 2010
Posted July 23rd, 2009
80 posts
15.5 Years
Starmie would work much better with that moveset than would Lapras
It gets STAB psychic and surf/hydro pump. It can also learn BoltBeam combine that with good Speed and SAtk. Not to mention rapid spinning abilities. I don't know if I would call Starmie best though. Gengar would probably be a better special sweeper even.

Walls are fine and dandy, but they bore me. I like pokemon who will do some damage.

Azonic

hello friends

Age 10
Male
stranger danger
Seen June 4th, 2018
Posted May 4th, 2018
7,123 posts
15.9 Years
Lapras is freaking BL.

Also another good Pokemon would definitely have to be Suicune. It has it's fair amount of counters, but when used correctly it's extremely annoying to take down. With bulk on both defensive sides, Suicune can be a complete monster if it gets to set up. Roar will take care of any other Pokemon that tries to set up on it, and Substitute is a nice move to Pressure stall low PP moves out of their PP, but not used very often. Anyways, it's basic strategy is to just Calm Mind up and set a sweep, with Rest to recover off the excess damage. Then, it sets for a sweep with its average Speed, but the extra bulk in it's arena. It's a monster if you let it set up, and can counter opposing Snorlax with Roar.

Snorlax and Suicune are two definite candidates for the best Pokemon.
Age 34
Australia
Seen January 30th, 2009
Posted December 18th, 2008
1,155 posts
16.3 Years
Tyranitar gets my vote, he is just so damn diverse that half the time he will take your team by surprise and drop your pokemon like nobodies business.

His only real let downs are his speed and his quad weakness to fighting, but with Dragon Dance that only really leaves his fighting weakness (among others mind you).

Sandstream just makes this guy hella annoying as well, negating leftovers for all those non rock/steel/ground types out there.
Angelic Diablo's PokePet

Slicer the level 46 Scyther!
Sky's location
Seen January 8th, 2009
Posted December 15th, 2008
129 posts
14.6 Years
Aggron Or Rhydon
There Both Really Powerful
There favourites of mine
Aggron honestly sucks at typing, Rhydon, well, like Aggron has two 4x SE. Not that powerful...

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 144 HP / 68 Atk / 132 Def / 164 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Body Slam/Return
- Curse
- Rest
- Shadow Ball/Earthquake/Fire Blast

First of all, outside of Blissey, Snorlax is the best special wall in the game. High base SDef (110) and HP (160), along with no weakness to special moves allows this to switch in on a special attacker, and give a free Curse while the opponent switches out. Anyone not familiar with Curse should know that while it is a Ghost move that drops the target's HP by 1/4 each turn, if a non-Ghost Pokemon uses it their Atk and Def will increase one stage (50% increase) while their Spd will decrease one stage instead. Basically, it seems this alternate effect was created with Snorlax in mind. Since Snorlax is already not swift afoot, the decrease in Spd doesn't matter, but the Atk/Def is what turns this sleepy giant into a team sweeper.


Simply the best.
I would definitely say Curselax is a powerful moveset but not the strongest. I've personally raised a Snorlax with this kinds of moves and nature but still isn't that strong.

Well, since Thick fat is there, it leaves it vulnerable to annoyers. THEY WILL STATUS YOU. There not just gonna mind a large and heavy behemoth raise its stats. Sure, rest is there but what happens if you are asleep for three turns? You have Leftovers there to heal you but no instant wake... They will attack you physically because his base Def. stat is 65... (Not cursed) Hazers are a good counter as its stats increase.Or, a slower death with the Evasion Clause and Toxic, Will-o-the-wisp or Leech seed. A few weaknesses...

But Breloom is almost unbeatable if trained right!
[email protected] lens
Adamant/Jolly
Moveset:
Spore
Leech Seed
Focus Punch
Iron Tail

This is a standard Sweeper set for Breloom.
Comments in Bold

Or maybe Milotic:
Moveset:
Recover
Ice Beam
Surf
Hypnosis/Dragonbreath
Natures & EV's: Modest and if you have time, all EV's in Sp. Atk and Speed/Defense
I have a different opinion, pseudo legends get my vote.
OU's like Salamence and Metagross


[email protected]/Quick claw

Characteristic: Clear Body
EVs: /252 Attack /252 Sp.Def./ 6 Hp
Sassy

Earhquake
Meteor Mash
Psychic
Shadowball

Metagross does have at least one thing going for it in my book, and that would be its incredible type combo. An awesome and unique dual type is something that isn't limited to legendaries, and Metagross is fortunate enough to be possessed of one of the very best. A Steel/Psychic marriage yields many resistances and few weaknesses (none of which are compounded), and while I would've rather seen this combo on an average Pokemon who could really use such an advantage (as opposed to a pseudo-legendary with the stats to make even a sucky type combo like Fire/Rock work), I will say I'm satisfied to see that it made its way into the game at all.


[email protected]/Scope lens

Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP/252Atk/252Speed(Dunno?)
Mild
Aerial Ace
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Fire Blast/Hydro Pump

Definitely the most unexpected Mixed Sweeper in R/S/E Aerial and D-CLaw for STAB Hydro or BLast for those annoying mid-class sweepers and Earthquake for that grand physical sweep.


"ZOMG BLAZIKEN FTW HE PWNS ALL N00BS"

Diamond FC:
2578-5308-3995
Merry Christmas!

Land down under
Seen April 9th, 2012
Posted December 19th, 2009
192 posts
16.1 Years
Im not sure if this moveset counts in R/S/E but ill post it anyways cause I simply love it

[email protected]
Trait: Synchronize
Attacks: Toxic
Mean Look
Baton Pass
Wish



I know that a taunt or a substitute would completely ruin this moveset, but it has set me up alot of the battles


oh and Sornlax > Herracross

Age 51
Utah
Seen July 27th, 2010
Posted July 26th, 2010
2,811 posts
17.3 Years
I think some people aren't quite getting the point to this thread. Or maybe I am not.

1. This is only for up to RSE (DPP Pokemon and DPP movesets don't count)
2. This is only for non Uber/Lengendary Pokemon
3. This has nothing to do with beating the game. ANY Lv100 Poekmon sweeps the Weak 5 with ease.

This thread, again unless I am reading into it wrong, is about the strongest overall non-Legendary Pokemon in the game. Strongest doesn't just mean the highest Atk or SAtk, but also strong defensively.

With that in mind, while I love using Metagross and Salamence (especially on the same team as they compliment each other very nicely), neither has the staying power of Snorlax. Earthquake ruins Meta's day and Ice Beam takes out Salamence quite easily. Sure there is Roar/Whirlwind and Psych Up out there, but they are much less common than EQ/IB. Rest also removes Toxic, and if you fear Toxic that much, just go with Immunity over Thick Fat. No worries.

Umby is also one of the strongest defensively with a truly great moveset. It just lacks any offensive punch to speak of.

Blaziken and Gyarados, due to bad typing, are just too weak defensively to even come close.
Seen November 11th, 2008
Posted October 30th, 2008
10 posts
14.6 Years
Just saying that shanecdavis is right. this thread is for pokemon up to R/S/E, which means only items and moves up to R/S/E as well. Also, the only great argument i've seen so far defending a pokemon is by shanecdavis, although i don't really understand the whole "two turn stalling advantage w/rest" either. However, in light of the posts so far, i'd like to re-present my defense of heracross:
Quite frankly, heracross has one of the best movepools in the game considering his types. a STAB Megahorn = 180 ATK, taking advantage of 125 base ATK, and for my personal Heracross, 372 ATK. Also, Heracross gets STAB Reversal. I'm actually not sure what the ATK for Reversal is when HP is at 1, but i'm sure that w/STAB it is above 250 (if some1 could confirm this that would be great, i haven't found anything figuring Reversal damage). A battle between a Heracross and Curselax would, IMO, be closer than it appears. On Serebii, Heracross base ATK = 125 and Snorlax base DEF = 65. Entering this information on a damage calculator (from marriland), the damage was 250-294. assuming a Curse on that turn and Heracross going first next, that looks like a KO to me. However, i may be missing something, i haven't actually tried this, and if someone shows me something disproving this theory with actual evidence backing it up, i will accept it.

Edit: just went to psypoke and did damage calculation on lvl 100 Heracross w/1 HP vs. lvl 100 Snorlax w/full HP and sleep. says average damage would be 902.5. just saying.
Age 51
Utah
Seen July 27th, 2010
Posted July 26th, 2010
2,811 posts
17.3 Years
Here is the Reversal chart:
0% - 3.124% HP remaining - Base Damage 200
3.125% - 9.374% HP remaining - Base Damage 150
9.375% - 20.3124% HP remaining - Base Damage 100
20.3125% - 34.374% HP remaining - Base Damage 80
34.375% - 67.1874% HP remaining - Base Damage 40
67.1875% - 100% HP remaining - Base Damage 20

I do agree that head-to-head Heracross has an advantage over Snorlax. That said, I don't think that makes Heracross better. There isn't a Pokemon in the game that doesn't have a weakness of some sort. For example, Skarmory can come in on Heracross, put up a Sub the first turn (regardless if Heracross uses Endure or Rock Slide) and then use Drill Peck (regardless if Heracross uses Reversal or gambles with Endure again). Does that make Skarmory better? I don't think so. As I said before, Skarmory is DEFINITELY one of the best due to its terrific typing and stats, but it just doesn't have the offensive firepower. Heracross is the exact opposite. It has terrific offensive firepower, top 5, but its mediocre defense combined with that nasty 4x Flying weakness just doesn't make it as well-rounded as Snorlax.