YGO: Individual Card Discussion Page 30

Started by Mullet August 31st, 2004 6:31 PM
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Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

Age 34
Male
Canada
Seen September 11th, 2016
Posted July 30th, 2016
8,246 posts
19.7 Years
I wonder why Jinzo is on the banlist, now that you've mentioned. Either Mobius also gets on the ban list for fairness, or Jinzo get off the banlist together with Mobius. This is so much like a Sangan vs. Witch fairness issue to me. Either both Sangan and Witch die, or both are banned...

Consistancy is lacking?

Forci Stikane

..

Seen August 11th, 2009
Posted August 11th, 2009
4,227 posts
18.2 Years
As far as Jinzo vs. Mobius goes, it goes back to why Breaker isn't going to be banned: Mobius requires a normal summon (a tribute to boot). Jinzo does not. That's the main reason why.

As far as Sangan vs. Witch, Witch can bring out most widely-used beatsticiks that Sangan can not (GAF, GEAF, Blade Knight, Reflect Bounder, etc).
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MegaDitto

Windsor ™

Seen June 27th, 2013
Posted July 7th, 2011
8,495 posts
18.4 Years
If it can be used more than once per turn, then I'm sticking this right into chaos deck >_>;

Once again, we must address these two cards against each other.

Jinzo vs Mobius the Frost Monarch.

What's the changes since last time?

-Mirror Force is back, but it can't chain to Mobius anyway.
-Vampire/Phoenix usage goes skyrocket, and therefore, *Bottomless* went up to dramatic account of 2 at the cost of even sakuretsu armor.

People are whispering back and forth about using Jinzo to avoid Bottomless Traphole. Any comments?
I seen enough of those on Pojo TCG Player, Yugiohetc ,etc >_>. It seems to them that desruction is stronger than negation in this format.(agian)
.
I agree.^

Mobius in general but they can both work great in the side deck no matter what meta you have. It just depends.

A card that is good in either format.

~Paired with Miyu-Chan~

Forci Stikane

..

Seen August 11th, 2009
Posted August 11th, 2009
4,227 posts
18.2 Years
...I knew that this was coming sometime......

This thing can work wonders (I've seen it save several people from Burners/Mills), or it can be a wasted card. It depends on the timing. I argue that this was one of the reasons why they banned Cyber Jar (fill the field with effect monsters, then use it).

With Nobleman back to 2 per deck, though, there will be a decision to make--Nobleman or Ceasefire (or Mystics). Each one has perks and downs, so it'll depend on the meta.

8/10
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MegaDitto

Windsor ™

Seen June 27th, 2013
Posted July 7th, 2011
8,495 posts
18.4 Years
Im sorry but Jinzo is forever better than Mobius, though Mobius should be limited to one.. people are far underestimating Jinzo still. Ive always known two noblemans were good.
IMO, Please explain. Mobius does not does deserve a restriction, in any way, neither of the monarch does. Mobius being maindecked just seemed like a format fad. Like Lightning Vortex. Jinzo may be better but that is just though.

2 Nobleman of Crossout will change the game in ways, though Flip-Flop-Control is still active. Most people nowdays have 1 Nobleman in the main deck and 1 in the side.
Mystic Swordsman Lv2 has been started to be used more instead. Mabye due to the fact tthat Mystic Swordsman Lv2 can be searched by Renforicment of the Army, which is useable by 2 Magician of Faith.

No matter what way they are compared through everything there will still be a debate.

And welcome to PC.
~Paired with Miyu-Chan~

Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

Age 34
Male
Canada
Seen September 11th, 2016
Posted July 30th, 2016
8,246 posts
19.7 Years
Mobius is fine. Maybe if you really want, it can be down to 2, but nobody uses more than 2 anyway even if we include the sidedeck. Jinzo is down to 1 because after it's summoned, it's relatively more difficult to take down than Mobius. Traps can't be used at all, so you're down to monster effects and spells to get it. On the other hand, though Mobius is destruction and not negation, and it can target spells on top of traps, it's easier to destroy. You can set a widespread or sakuretsu after Mobius is summoned already and destroy it that way. Also, like all the Monarchs, Tsukuyomi can destroy Mobius by herself, while Tsukuyomi will be needing a bit of help to get Jinzo. Jinzo's effect is reusable through recursion, but Mobius is only a beatstick if it gets revived, so that's also a plus for Jinzo.

For all the reasons above, Jinzo is at 1 while Mobius isn't restricted.

Plus, personally I think that we shouldn't talk of restricting monsters so lightly unless it has the power to turn the tide for the entire metagame, generates card/field advantages easily, or if that one monster can completely shutdown a decktype.

Mobius can't do any of those. It's in many decks but it's not guarantee loss if you don't have it either, unlike BLS back then. It doesn't generate card/field advantage too easily, because it requires a tribute. Also it's only a 2 for 3 if both s/t can't be chained, and successfully destroys a monster on top of it (most of the time it's 2 for 2 as one of the s/t will chain to Mobius so it won't go wasted.) Mobius obviously doesn't shut down an entire decktype, seeing how last format a burn deck made it to Top 8 against all those Mobius out there.

Multiple Jinzos on the other hand have the power to turn the entire metagame by changing a lot of decks to a "3 staple traps only" type of thing (or something to the line of extremely low trap count.) Multiple Jinzo spells CHAOS *pun.*

Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

Age 34
Male
Canada
Seen September 11th, 2016
Posted July 30th, 2016
8,246 posts
19.7 Years
And the only reason why we won't have Torrential Tribute in a deck is because...

a) we're poor and can't get our filthy hands on one
b) some special decks don't require monster destruction, such as some, but not all, OTK/FTK.

Royal Decree decks still use it along with the 3 copies of Royal Decree (3 Decree, MF, TT, and may include CotH as the 6th trap). Alternate win decks use it too, even exodia in order to secure field control...

Nothing much to say. Better have a darn well reason for not using it except "it's too expensive."

Forci Stikane

..

Seen August 11th, 2009
Posted August 11th, 2009
4,227 posts
18.2 Years
Better have a darn well reason for not using it except "it's too expensive."
How about "it requires a summon and wipes out your own monsters to boot, which requires either something along the lines of Scapegoat for protection from any follow-up Special Summons or a Sangan to search for a worthwhile monster, such as Don Zaloog"?

That is why MF shall always beat out TT...as long as MF isn't banned.

...$10 for a Structure Deck is too much?
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Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

Age 34
Male
Canada
Seen September 11th, 2016
Posted July 30th, 2016
8,246 posts
19.7 Years
How about "it requires a summon and wipes out your own monsters to boot, which requires either something along the lines of Scapegoat for protection from any follow-up Special Summons or a Sangan to search for a worthwhile monster, such as Don Zaloog"?
How about flip your Dekoichi to draw a card, chain your TT to yourself like that, wipe their field, then summon your own Don Zaloog to go on the offensive?

Now that maybe too ideal. How about a more realistic situation.

The opponent's steath bird is pecking you off every turn together with a huge burning son of a rock on your side of the field. Surely Ichapokemr will gladly go for a lost in card advantage by throwing a Kycoo down to activate his own Torrential Tribute. Yes he lose a monster and leaves an open field in terms of monster, but it's a gain anyway.


Mirror Force is strictly for defensive purposes. Torrential Tribute can be flexible on both offensive and defensive. Mirror Force can only work against an aggressor who attacks, while Torrential Tribute can be useful in many ways of its own, even against decks that do not attack at all (or, will only attack via Mobius and Jinzo... oh right Torrential can at least wipe out Mobius to take everything down with it instead of standing still to be destroyed too.)

The two are equal in my book.

MegaDitto

Windsor ™

Seen June 27th, 2013
Posted July 7th, 2011
8,495 posts
18.4 Years
Dun-Dun-Dun

Battle of the staple trap cards.

Torrential has more combos than Mirror Force. But Mirror Force has more of the godly topdeck side when your opponent will attack for game. It depends for the deck but Mirror Force is used in general more.

Also since when Torrential was released it did not revive a restriction like Mirror Force on it's releases. Mirror Force was releasesd as a staple at first. Torrenital as tech.

Torrential has more chainability since it can be activated either turn.

They are 2 different types of field control. Both godly in their own ways.

New Card:

~Paired with Miyu-Chan~

Forci Stikane

..

Seen August 11th, 2009
Posted August 11th, 2009
4,227 posts
18.2 Years
The opponent's steath bird is pecking you off every turn together with a huge burning son of a rock on your side of the field. Surely Ichapokemr will gladly go for a lost in card advantage by throwing a Kycoo down to activate his own Torrential Tribute. Yes he lose a monster and leaves an open field in terms of monster, but it's a gain anyway.
Actually, I'd just throw down Creature Swap or Enemy Controller. Neither one really loses me an advantage (if you go by that--I usually don't) and I get to start burning my opponent right back.

...OR use a Nightmare Wheel on that Stealth Bird...OR Tsuku the Lava Golem...OR tribute it for Jinzo/Blowback and start wiping cards out...there are a lot of better choices that Torrential...

Actually, I could also use a card that I remembered about earlier: Needle Ceiling. No summon required and wipes out face-ups, which can leave you with at least SOME advantage, provided that all your opponent's monsters just went face-up (Swords, CEASEFIRE).

But I digress.

Ah, Exiled Force. Another card that had to show up sooner or later...except I thought that it already was done...meh, whatever. Anyway, works wonders in the right deck, in the right situation; for example, the situation that Frostweaver suggested above--summon Exiled Force, tribute to lose the Stealth Bird, then either special it back to lose the golem or attack with the golem for a large chunk out of your opponent's LP.

There's a reason why I considered this the anti-BLS: cheap way to remove that opponent's wall protecting them, instant 1-1 non-loss (maybe even advantage based on what was equipped to that monster), but not always too good as a topdeck.
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Frostweaver

Ancient + Prehistoric

Age 34
Male
Canada
Seen September 11th, 2016
Posted July 30th, 2016
8,246 posts
19.7 Years
It's not a bad card, but just not good enough against his brothers. Zaborg qualities for light food and instantly destroys a monster. It's guarantee advantage along with field presense control, possibly allowing you to push for at least 2400 damage. Anything that cna also kill reaper is a plus too. Mobius lost a bit due to the return of Jinzo and its heavier emphasize on chaos, but nevertheless is a promising 2 s/t destruction. Even if the cards can be chained (which isn't too often), they are forced to be activated at a bad time.

People will most likely prefer to use Zaborg to blast the way open for a reaper attack if they want discard. Also, anyone else notice how this format focuses on field presense more than hand a bit more now...? Don Zaloog relatively quieted down quite a bit compare to the last meta, while Zaborg is on a very steady climb...

Oh, and ugly art doesn't help, XD It got the absolute worst picture for all the monarchs

Forci Stikane

..

Seen August 11th, 2009
Posted August 11th, 2009
4,227 posts
18.2 Years
IMO, Kycoo has always been one of THE BEST 4-star monsters, not to mention a personal favorite. Its effect instantly removes anything that your opponent has thrown at you, perfect anti-chaos, pro-chaos since its dark, 1800 ATK, and even stops your opponent's attempts to throw one at you.

10/10
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Seen December 8th, 2007
Posted June 1st, 2006
7 posts
17 Years
Kycoo is excellent. In the old CC Goat Chaos meta, it was excellent in making sure that BLS could never come out, and is still an excellent card, as it probably will be if Macro Cosmos picks up speed and becomes the new CC, as most think it will, provided it gets used by soem top Players in the US or UK metagame. The chance to also disrupt any chances of a Mid-Game Chaos Sorcerer to come out. Also being Chaos food itself, and and has an excellent attack power considering most monsters of today's meta, under LV4.

In my opinion, it gets a perfect score.

DragonQueenRachel

Soul of Trinity, Dragon Queen

Age 33
Neo Zion
Seen March 10th, 2009
Posted July 13th, 2007
755 posts
17 Years
Its an okay card, I guess, but there's better cards out there.


Trainer card for my Comic's version of myself.



Another trainer card.

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