What is your opinion on class systems?

Started by Ho-Oh March 9th, 2009 3:33 AM
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Ho-Oh

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Blazichu says:
if the staff were upper class I would be drinking tea all day and would speak in a funny accent
Do you group people by their classes? Are they necessary? Class systems referring to upper, middle, working, etc.

This is referring to putting people down, etc, disadvantaging them because of their class. I don't think it's necessary, considering we're all supposed to be equal and all that. Class systems shouldn't exist; the amount of pay/living conditions shouldn't make a difference on how someone should be categorised. :[

Milke

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I agree with Penguin. Classes aren't discriminatory, they are simply fact. If you have x things and y amount of money, you are in z class. Simple. Unless you mean something else, like racial stereotyping. Putting someone down because of their class is wrong, but not the class-maker's fault. Go tell the people stereo typing to stop instead of eliminating the class system. It's like telling illegal music downloading sites to stop instead of telling people to stop making music.
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I really don't care about classes. Weirdly enough, I have been commented on having "Aristocratic" accent before. I have also been commented on being very rich because of the size of my house...

What the hell? So I am upperclass? We am barely hanging on because of Electricity costs! -_-.

Jorah

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Hmm, I think the class system is different in the UK from America? From what I've seen, the class system in America is based just on what money you have/earn, right? Or have I got it horribly wrong? In the UK, it's based on what type of job you have. So you could be working class but earn more than someone who is middle class haha.

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If you mean by the amount of money (AKA Rich or poor), then YES, i think that should be rid of, in my opinion. People treat me a bit different everywhere (such as school) because i am, shall we say, not so rich D:

But i am also agreed with Penguin. He makes a fair point, so i am 100% agreed with him.


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TRIFORCE89

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They aren't discriminatory. We're not in medieval times where someone is next to God and someone is next to dirt. It's just a reference to the kind of work you do and what you get paid for doing it.

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Angela

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Do you group people by their classes? Are they necessary? Class systems referring to upper, middle, working, etc.

This is referring to putting people down, etc, disadvantaging them because of their class. I don't think it's necessary, considering we're all supposed to be equal and all that. Class systems shouldn't exist; the amount of pay/living conditions shouldn't make a difference on how someone should be categorised. :[
In Iceland people don't do that, tho I think the rich people wish we do, but it's there fault for the economy, so they are lucky we haven't made them walk the plank:).
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I think they're absolutely appalling. They don't drive the economy - they just make sure that certain people always has less opportunities than others, especially in back-ward economies like the US. I mean, healthcare and a proper education are actually expensive. It's just sick that the rich can afford them, despite them (quite probably) being exceptionally stupid yet the poor don't have a chance. It's a poor way to live and just goes to highlight how utterly helpless the modern political situation truly is...
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In the past, the bourgeoisie had most of the resources in society. The Industrial Revolution is a prime example of the upper echelon taking advantage of the lower and middle classes. The Proletariat, or working class, was driven to near slavery during this time. Factors such as companies forcing employees to buy products on credit from stores in company towns, made it so employees were stuck working for their employers because they owed them money. In our day and age, government control keeps radical things such as this in check, and labour strikes and unions have also helped to keep the proletariat class unified and working together.

Now, in a capitalist society, the focus is less on the health of the proletariat, who are the backbone of the economy, and more on the health of the economy itself. History shows us plainly that the bourgeoisie has always taken advantage of the proletariat in one way or another, even the recent economic crisis shows that the corporations don't care about them.

Now in every society or economic system, there are always going to be distinctions between social classes. Even in the case of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the Communist Party members held higher privileges over those in the lower parts of the Communist party. ( Note that everyone had to be a member of the Communist Party in the Soviet Union )
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Aye - but now's more the time than ever to try and change that system! (By the terms you're using, I guess you're familiar with Marx?).

The thing with the USSR was that the likes of Stalin had serious issues. Whilst he stood for a fairly benevolent system, he was not (himself) a benevolent person. He was corrupt, violent and schizophrenic. So, the system he led was similarly unjust. Yet, pure communism, or (more certainly) Anarchist-Communism totally eliminates any superiority at all. It's a truly fascinating movement.
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Aye - but now's more the time than ever to try and change that system! (By the terms you're using, I guess you're familiar with Marx?).

The thing with the USSR was that the likes of Stalin had serious issues. Whilst he stood for a fairly benevolent system, he was not (himself) a benevolent person. He was corrupt, violent and schizophrenic. So, the system he led was similarly unjust. Yet, pure communism, or (more certainly) Anarchist-Communism totally eliminates any superiority at all. It's a truly fascinating movement.
Yes, I've read alot on the Soviet Union, Communism, and Socialism. The ideologies and movements really fascinate me.

By changing the system, I suppose you mean revolution? Certainly the political and economic climate is appropriate for such a move to take place, although I don't see the Communist and Socialist parties having the vigor that they once had. So it is fairly unlikely that any revolutions will take place, at least in the United States or Europe.

The USSR itself was never meant to exist for all the time that it did. The October Revolution was meant to spark a worldwide revolution, and not necessarily a specific Russian one. When worldwide revolution failed, it threw Marxists completely off guard, who believed that the climate was proper for such a thing, they made due with what they had accomplished.

Communism itself, as you stated, is not at all an "evil" system like so many people have been programmed into thinking. But, like Christianity, people have done things in the name of Communism which have muddied the name.
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I see no reason why classes like these should exist. It only brings some people down.

How does this benefit everyone, if not the majority?
It's not like a group got together and decided that they should exist, they are just a product of the way Capitalist Economic Theory works.

To remove class systems would be to change to another economic system, such as Socialism or Communism. Even in countries who have adopted Socialism or Communism on paper, there are still class distinctions. So to have a society with truly no social class distinctions would be a miracle.
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I hate Rich People. :3 You mean like that?
Do you hate them for their economic superiority over you? Or from their apparent disregard for the lower classes?

Alot of rich people give alot of their money away to charities you know :/
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BHwolfgang

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It's not like a group got together and decided that they should exist, they are just a product of the way Capitalist Economic Theory works.

To remove class systems would be to change to another economic system, such as Socialism or Communism. Even in countries who have adopted Socialism or Communism on paper, there are still class distinctions. So to have a society with truly no social class distinctions would be a miracle.
A miracle isn't impossible.

I never said that that's how they form and how it started. I'm just saying that it doesn't benefit anybody, high class to low class. This thing just doesn't do anything except provides ya with a title.

Ice_Emperor

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Do you hate them for their economic superiority over you? Or from their apparent disregard for the lower classes?

Alot of rich people give alot of their money away to charities you know :/
The latter. I live humbly. I don't care if they have more money then me. You can give me money for Pizza, a 2 liter of Dr.Pepper and some paydays I'm good to go. That's all I need to have a party. I don't need anything on MTV.
I know that. lol I just don't really care. If you treat people bad, the Emperor will charge his lazer.

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Penguin13

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Reading some of your responses, some of you guys are being very.. self-centered.

The class system DRIVES the economy, and the democratic-capitalist society that the United States was founded upon.

Capitalism is powered by competition. You either do what ever you can to move up, or you will stay at the bottom. It's the simple concept of Social Darwinism; survival of the fittest. If you're not at the top, or at least moving towards the top, you are weak, and will die off.

Here's some excerpts from my sociology lectures as proof of this:

I. Karl Marx
A. History of the human society is a class struggle.
B. Class conflict produces significant social change.
C. In capitalist societies, the conflict will be between:
1. The Bourgeoisie, who own and control the means of production.
2. The proletariat, who make up the mass of the workers.
D. Marx's "historical materialism."
1. Economic institutions server as the engine of society.
E. Wealth is the only source of social power.

And here's some from my Political Science lectures

I. 20th Century Political Theory
A. Capitalism
1. Development of market economy
2. Emphasis on individualism.
3. Survival of the fittest.
4. Politics should benefit the strong.
5. Cut off the weak.
6. Greed is good, Greed makes the world go round. “invisible hand”- Adam Smith

II. 20th century political ideology
A. What all three 20th century political ideals have in common? (Capitalism, Communism, Fascism)
1. Ties with (Social) Darwinism.
2. Deals with allocation of resources
3. Organization of society.
4. Questions of the haves and the have nots.
5. Economically oriented.

So as you can see from that last one, it doesn't really matter what kind of society you live in, there was always be a class system of sorts.. And it helps organize society and keep the economy in check.
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The latter. I live humbly. I don't care if they have more money then me. You can give me money for Pizza, a 2 liter of Dr.Pepper and some paydays I'm good to go. That's all I need to have a party. I don't need anything on MTV.
I know that. lol I just don't really care. If you treat people bad, the Emperor will charge his lazer.
But you said that you hated rich people...?
A miracle isn't impossible.

I never said that that's how they form and how it started. I'm just saying that it doesn't benefit anybody, high class to low class. This thing just doesn't do anything except provides ya with a title.
It's simply a measurement of your place economically compared to the rest of the population, there are differences between social classes.
Reading some of your responses, some of you guys are being very.. self-centered.
Are we then? You're the one who stated Capitalism is "greedy", and is not greed self-centered?

The class system DRIVES the economy, and the democratic-capitalist society that the United States was founded upon.

Capitalism is powered by competition. You either do what ever you can to move up, or you will stay at the bottom. It's the simple concept of Social Darwinism; survival of the fittest. If you're not at the top, or at least moving towards the top, you are weak, and will die off.
We're dealing with people here who you are completely neglecting in favor of the amount of money you have. To me, there is something sick about that. You are, again, describing a very self-centered system.

Here's some excerpts from my sociology lectures as proof of this:

I. Karl Marx
A. History of the human society is a class struggle. He was right, but it also involves alot more than just class struggles that he failed to take into consideration.
B. Class conflict produces significant social change. It does, as we see in the case of the French Revolution.
C. In capitalist societies, the conflict will be between:
1. The Bourgeoisie, who own and control the means of production.
2. The proletariat, who make up the mass of the workers.
D. Marx's "historical materialism."
1. Economic institutions server as the engine of society.
E. Wealth is the only source of social power.

And here's some from my Political Science lectures

I. 20th Century Political Theory
A. Capitalism
1. Development of market economy
2. Emphasis on individualism.
3. Survival of the fittest.
4. Politics should benefit the strong.
5. Cut off the weak.
6. Greed is good, Greed makes the world go round. “invisible hand”- Adam Smith I don't see how Greed is a good thing. To me, its just saying screw everyone else for you to get ahead.

II. 20th century political ideology
A. What all three 20th century political ideals have in common? (Capitalism, Communism, Fascism)
1. Ties with (Social) Darwinism.
2. Deals with allocation of resources
3. Organization of society.
4. Questions of the haves and the have nots.
5. Economically oriented.

So as you can see from that last one, it doesn't really matter what kind of society you live in, there was always be a class system of sorts.. And it helps organize society and keep the economy in check.
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A miracle isn't impossible.

I never said that that's how they form and how it started. I'm just saying that it doesn't benefit anybody, high class to low class. This thing just doesn't do anything except provides ya with a title.
But if everybody was rich, pampered and spoiled, who would flip the burgers, pump the gas?
We need classes. Sad but true. :[