Real pokemon guru Page 19

Started by Inkfingers April 22nd, 2009 7:44 AM
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I Laugh at your Misfortune!

Normal is a synonym for boring

Male
YOUR MOTHER! (aka: England)
Seen August 1st, 2016
Posted August 22nd, 2011
2,629 posts
14.9 Years
Hey, question. Now, we know that normal attacks don't work on ghost types, and that makes sense because, well, you can't literally touch a ghost, so you logically can't punch it either.

So how does Bite work? You're still just making physical contact with it, but for some odd reason, Bite can affect a ghost.

mattman324

Run to the hills, run for your lives!

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Somewhere
Seen October 30th, 2022
Posted January 22nd, 2020
396 posts
14.3 Years
Hey, question. Now, we know that normal attacks don't work on ghost types, and that makes sense because, well, you can't literally touch a ghost, so you logically can't punch it either.

So how does Bite work? You're still just making physical contact with it, but for some odd reason, Bite can affect a ghost.

Hey... I can answer this one!

Well, for Bite, you surround you're teeth with a dark energy. The ghosts might not feel the teeth, but they feel the Dark energy. That's how Dark pokemon get STAB on it: they can produce more dark energy.

But what about Gen1, when it was a normal attack? Well, at that point in time, people hadn't realized the existance of Dark types (or steel, even though they have existed since the dinosaurs. See: Bastiodon). So, when their pokemon would learn Bite, they wouldn't know to coat it with a Dark type energy.

The Scientist

PKMN Scientist/Mathemagician

Male
In a Laboratory
Seen July 27th, 2012
Posted December 19th, 2009
721 posts
19.3 Years
Hey... I can answer this one!

Well, for Bite, you surround you're teeth with a dark energy. The ghosts might not feel the teeth, but they feel the Dark energy. That's how Dark pokemon get STAB on it: they can produce more dark energy.

But what about Gen1, when it was a normal attack? Well, at that point in time, people hadn't realized the existance of Dark types (or steel, even though they have existed since the dinosaurs. See: Bastiodon). So, when their pokemon would learn Bite, they wouldn't know to coat it with a Dark type energy.
For congruency reasons, I'd say it's connected to the "Why is Psychic weak against Dark" question a while back.

"Ghost" Pokemon, while not really ghosts, do have high spiritual sensitivity. The aura of something as malevolent and vicious as a Dark-type would be psychologically damaging as well as physical... so when they "connect" with an attack, the damage may just be due to the proximity.

Bite's changing of type over time is an example of progression in the Pokemon world. In the days of RBY, Pokemon would just bite something and call it a Bite attack. However, when the Dark-type was later identified and people saw how effective their Bite was, it started a movement to replace the standard Bite with the more vicious Dark Bite.
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Male
Canada
Seen September 15th, 2016
Posted September 14th, 2016
1,544 posts
14.8 Years
I got a question.
What materials make up the Pokemon Ditto?
And how can it breed with every other Pokemon?
I sometimes think Ditto is like liquid metal. Though a creature without bones is a better explanation. Gormless and formless.

For ungendered Pokemon, like Magnemite, imagine Ditto as appearing with fake eyelashes and lipstick.

Nothing is beastier than a man wearing make-up. Isn't that right, Green Day?
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Pokemon Casual
Male
Fuchsia City
Seen October 21st, 2015
Posted October 7th, 2015
562 posts
14.6 Years
I sometimes think Ditto is like liquid metal. Though a creature without bones is a better explanation. Gormless and formless.

For ungendered Pokemon, like Magnemite, imagine Ditto as appearing with fake eyelashes and lipstick.

Nothing is beastier than a man wearing make-up. Isn't that right, Green Day?
...
i liked the stem cell hypothesis better :S

...
aww... i forgot my question... let me get back at you :|

EDIT: oh yeah... how come there is no light-type as opposed to dark-type? (didn't bother to read all the way back, so i'm sorry if it's been answered)
Seen October 22nd, 2016
Posted January 8th, 2011
786 posts
14.3 Years
Because Dark type isn't defined that way. In fact, "dark" doesn't exist. Dark is simply the absence of light. This very definition suggests that the typing of "Dark" must not fit that polarization.

Simply put, Dark types aren't lack of light. They're forces. They're a mentality. They're Evil (the Japanese name). (If you really want a light type, look at Electric. They fit the bill in some ways)
Male
Fuchsia City
Seen October 21st, 2015
Posted October 7th, 2015
562 posts
14.6 Years
Because Dark type isn't defined that way. In fact, "dark" doesn't exist. Dark is simply the absence of light. This very definition suggests that the typing of "Dark" must not fit that polarization.

Simply put, Dark types aren't lack of light. They're forces. They're a mentality. They're Evil (the Japanese name). (If you really want a light type, look at Electric. They fit the bill in some ways)
however, it is clearly stated in canon that there is no such thing as an 'evil Pokémon' (by Meowth; don't remember the episode), and that Pokémon only act in evil ways when told to do so by their trainers, meaning that what you said must be false...

what you described in your post would more accurately describe 'shadow Pokémon' from XD or the TCG... and being evil isn't something that they are born with... it is something that they choose (definition of evil in Pokémon).

anyone else have a suggestion?
Male
Fuchsia City
Seen October 21st, 2015
Posted October 7th, 2015
562 posts
14.6 Years
If they're not evil, than why is their type "Evil"?

(And no where did I say what form of evil they are, so Pokemon could easily be evil without breaking your supposed "canon")
???
i don't understand what you mean by "supposed 'canon'"... i just don't...

secondly, if what you meant is that a Pokémon's feeling of mercilessness (i.e. whatever you wanna call it) makes it a different type, then how come Pokémon known to be inherently gracious and pure aren't... (i.e. Chansey line, Togepi line, Shaymin, etc)

anyways, i'll leave you to ponder about it...
Seen October 22nd, 2016
Posted January 8th, 2011
786 posts
14.3 Years
I mean supposed because you don't have any specific instances where this was confirmed. I recall ONE NPC in RBY, and an interview with Tajiri, but other than that it's not a subject often gone over.

I never used the word merciless, nor did I suggest it was a quality inherent in Dark types. Dark types are simply a force, like Sauron. They're a mentality that allows them a different way of interacting with life. They tap into powers similar to Psychic, but otherwise different. A Jedi/Sith kinda thing (though the comparison disgusts me).

The Scientist

PKMN Scientist/Mathemagician

Male
In a Laboratory
Seen July 27th, 2012
Posted December 19th, 2009
721 posts
19.3 Years
Well checking the traits of most Dark-type Pokemon and moves brings up some recurring themes, namely deception, intimidation, and brutality.

if what you meant is that a Pokémon's feeling of mercilessness (i.e. whatever you wanna call it) makes it a different type, then how come Pokémon known to be inherently gracious and pure aren't... (i.e. Chansey line, Togepi line, Shaymin, etc)
Because these qualities haven't manifested themselves into a fairly large movepool, and they are independent of the elemental types (one of the defining qualities of a Pokemon, as Redstar explained earlier); "nice" isn't super-effective/ineffective against anything that Normal isn't, whereas Dark is immune to Psychic and effective against Ghost.

And regarding Light-types, Steel Pokemon have a few light-based moves (Flash Cannon, Mirror Shot, Doom Desire), whereas Grass and Fire Pokemon have moves based on sunlight (Sunny Day, Synthesis, Solarbeam).








Ah, I have a question.

One of my supports for the Pokeball digitization theory that I never had much reason to include was the fact that data does not weight (lol, I finally get to use that in a sentence).

In all seriousness, if a Pokemon were to be converted into energy, that plasma would be the same weight as the original Pokemon since all the subatomic particles that made the Pokemon are still there, they're just hotter and more widely scattered. Therefore, it would be impossible to carry, say, a Snorlax's PokeBall.

Data, on the other hand, doesn't weigh anything... which brings me to my question: why does a PokeBall shake when you're trying to catch a Pokemon? If the Pokemon has no mass, and therefore no momentum, what's shaking the Ball?
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Seen October 22nd, 2016
Posted January 8th, 2011
786 posts
14.3 Years
Ah, I have a question.

One of my supports for the Pokeball digitization theory that I never had much reason to include was the fact that data does not weight (lol, I finally get to use that in a sentence).

In all seriousness, if a Pokemon were to be converted into energy, that plasma would be the same weight as the original Pokemon since all the subatomic particles that made the Pokemon are still there, they're just hotter and more widely scattered. Therefore, it would be impossible to carry, say, a Snorlax's PokeBall.

Data, on the other hand, doesn't weigh anything... which brings me to my question: why does a PokeBall shake when you're trying to catch a Pokemon? If the Pokemon has no mass, and therefore no momentum, what's shaking the Ball?
The Pokemon's soul. While the matter of the Pokemon's physical form is converted into data which can readily be stored, the soul cannot be broken down into something so quaint as data and thus remains outside the ball. It acts on it, attempting to break it open to rejoin with its vessel, but eventually submits. At that point I guess it just "floats" around, waiting for you to release the body.
Age 28
Seen January 21st, 2013
Posted May 3rd, 2011
196 posts
14.4 Years
Ah, I have a question.

One of my supports for the Pokeball digitization theory that I never had much reason to include was the fact that data does not weight (lol, I finally get to use that in a sentence).

In all seriousness, if a Pokemon were to be converted into energy, that plasma would be the same weight as the original Pokemon since all the subatomic particles that made the Pokemon are still there, they're just hotter and more widely scattered. Therefore, it would be impossible to carry, say, a Snorlax's PokeBall.

Data, on the other hand, doesn't weigh anything... which brings me to my question: why does a PokeBall shake when you're trying to catch a Pokemon? If the Pokemon has no mass, and therefore no momentum, what's shaking the Ball?
Well we know that Pokemon can fight their way out of a Pokeball, otherwise I would be catching Rayquaza with a Nest Ball. Maybe there is some matter to energy conversion, though just a tiny bit of DNA, that lets the data know more what to do when the pokemon 's data is sent out of the Pokeball. The more complex a certain Pokemon's DNA is, the more complicated the things a pokeball has to do, where catch rate is the complexity of the DNA. Because it's so complicated, maybe the pokeball shakes when it's "loading" just as an aesthetic effect. Like how when we know a computer is loading it has the little spinning thing. This doesn't explain why it's easier to catch pokemon with less health though.
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The Scientist

PKMN Scientist/Mathemagician

Male
In a Laboratory
Seen July 27th, 2012
Posted December 19th, 2009
721 posts
19.3 Years
Well we know that Pokemon can fight their way out of a Pokeball, otherwise I would be catching Rayquaza with a Nest Ball. Maybe there is some matter to energy conversion, though just a tiny bit of DNA, that lets the data know more what to do when the pokemon 's data is sent out of the Pokeball. The more complex a certain Pokemon's DNA is, the more complicated the things a pokeball has to do, where catch rate is the complexity of the DNA. Because it's so complicated, maybe the pokeball shakes when it's "loading" just as an aesthetic effect. Like how when we know a computer is loading it has the little spinning thing. This doesn't explain why it's easier to catch pokemon with less health though.
This is where Redstar's explanation comes in handy: by fighting and nearly defeating a Pokemon, you're "breaking its spirit", weakening its fighting willpower and reducing the chance it will be able to break open the PokeBall.

The idea that the Pokemon's spirit stays outside of the Ball though... that's just novel. Besides answering the previous question, it also answers if/how Pokemon are aware of what's going on outside of their PokeBall, settles the debate on whether Ghost Pokemon are actually ghosts, and also supports a few other things.

Damn, Redstar just completed multiple theories in one shot.

I knew there was a reason I voted for him in MotM.
Love science? Join The Laboratory!
----------------------------------------------------------
General Scientists: The Scientist | Idiomorph | Dr Gregory House | Redstar
Self-professed "Mad" Scientist: Viceroy Gawain
Resident Quantum Physicist: Mizan de la Plume Kuro
[Un]Lovable Intern: Luck
Lovable Interns: Yams | mOOG | Haz | Eliminator Jr.
That shady guy lurking around the chemical dumpsters: Latiace
Some random guy: 0m3GA ARS3NAL
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I Laugh at your Misfortune!

Normal is a synonym for boring

Male
YOUR MOTHER! (aka: England)
Seen August 1st, 2016
Posted August 22nd, 2011
2,629 posts
14.9 Years
however, it is clearly stated in canon that there is no such thing as an 'evil Pokémon' (by Meowth; don't remember the episode), and that Pokémon only act in evil ways when told to do so by their trainers, meaning that what you said must be false...

what you described in your post would more accurately describe 'shadow Pokémon' from XD or the TCG... and being evil isn't something that they are born with... it is something that they choose (definition of evil in Pokémon).

anyone else have a suggestion?
I believe the episode in question was "Island of the giant Pokemon". When TR's Pokemon and the twerps' pokemon were forced to team up to find their trainers, TR's Pokemon explained that they themselves were not evil, they simply carried out the orders of their masters, which happened to be evil.

And I always thought that "Dark" kinda just meant as in fighting dirty; using cunning and sneakery to win.

Age 29
Male
Seen June 1st, 2013
Posted April 27th, 2013
2,276 posts
14.4 Years
oooo, sneakery. But yeah, I thought Dark pokemon were just sort of darkness-powered, not as having villainous behavior as a defining trait. As much as I'd love to avoid the aura thing, PXD's animation for Bite makes it more likely. Dark energy manifests on command of the user and attacks as jaws biting down on the enemy. Less controlled examples would be actually using teeth laced with said power.

And I do like Redstar's Pokeball hypothesis. Very nice there.
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Male
Fuchsia City
Seen October 21st, 2015
Posted October 7th, 2015
562 posts
14.6 Years
I never used the word merciless, nor did I suggest it was a quality inherent in Dark types. Dark types are simply a force, like Sauron. They're a mentality that allows them a different way of interacting with life. They tap into powers similar to Psychic, but otherwise different. A Jedi/Sith kinda thing (though the comparison disgusts me).
For congruency reasons, Bite's changing of type over time is an example of progression in the Pokemon world. In the days of RBY, Pokemon would just bite something and call it a Bite attack. However, when the Dark-type was later identified and people saw how effective their Bite was, it started a movement to replace the standard Bite with the more vicious Dark Bite.
Because these qualities haven't manifested themselves into a fairly large movepool, and they are independent of the elemental types (one of the defining qualities of a Pokemon, as Redstar explained earlier); "nice" isn't super-effective/ineffective against anything that Normal isn't, whereas Dark is immune to Psychic and effective against Ghost.
alright, so we're talking about some sort of 'dark-force' that seems to be super-effective against psychic pokémon's heightened senses, and ghost pokémon's heightened spirituality, thus explaining some of the mystery behind dark-type ATTACKS.

i can understand that dark-type attacks aren't effective against fighters since they have harder, stronger bodies, and are able to overcome the dark-type's (mind control to some extent???), but...

1. how come dark-type attacks are ineffective vs. steel-types?
and more importantly...

2. what defines a POKéMON as a dark-type???

The Scientist

PKMN Scientist/Mathemagician

Male
In a Laboratory
Seen July 27th, 2012
Posted December 19th, 2009
721 posts
19.3 Years
As much as I'd love to avoid the aura thing,
You liar, you've always been biased towards aura theories lol.

1. how come dark-type attacks are ineffective vs. steel-types?
and more importantly...

2. what defines a POKéMON as a dark-type???
Dark type attacks are basically standard attacks boosted by the Dark-type's malevolence/trickery. You can think of Dark type attacks as having two components: a physical and a psychological. The Steel types' physical defenses are so high that they only suffer the psychological damage and are practically immune to the physical. The result? Dark attacks only deal 1/2 the usual damage to them.

A Pokemon is a Dark type when it has an inherent tendency towards the aforementioned Dark-type traits (deception, intimidation, and brutality). These traits manifest themselves in a "dark" aura (no, mOOG, go away) that overwhelms and nullifies the psychologically-sensitive Psychic Pokemon.

I get the feeling you're soon going to ask why Bug and Fighting are super-effective against Dark-types, so I'll just answer that one now. Dark types use their mild intimidation factor to weaken opponents. Would you want to mess with something like a Sharpedo or Tyranitar? I didn't think so.

Fighting Pokemon also have inherent tendencies, but theirs lean towards bravery: they aren't intimidated by the Dark types' wiles, and in fact will probably see that intimidation as a challenge. Therefore, they strike at stronger-than-normal power.

Bug Pokemon have unusual [hive]minds. Their thought processes are so simple and scattered, they just don't pick up on the Dark Pokemon's aura and strike with unhindered power.
Love science? Join The Laboratory!
----------------------------------------------------------
General Scientists: The Scientist | Idiomorph | Dr Gregory House | Redstar
Self-professed "Mad" Scientist: Viceroy Gawain
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Age 28
Seen January 21st, 2013
Posted May 3rd, 2011
196 posts
14.4 Years
I think everyone understands why Flying-type is super effective against bug, but why is that so against Grass. I feel like there is something obvious to this question, but at risk of being foolish, i'll ask anyway.

Also, why do you think Steel-type isn't weak to Electric-type?
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thegeneticway

"He has kickin' powers"-Trixie

Age 26
Male
California B)
Seen January 22nd, 2017
Posted December 2nd, 2012
415 posts
13.8 Years
I think everyone understands why Flying-type is super effective against bug, but why is that so against Grass. I feel like there is something obvious to this question, but at risk of being foolish, i'll ask anyway.

Also, why do you think Steel-type isn't weak to Electric-type?
Well, I guess if you're a bird trying to swoop down at a worm, you might break some grass. And when trying to pluck a worm, you also might break a grass piece.

I'm not sure about the steel type though.
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I'm Roger! Call me Genetic if you prefer, but I really don't mind ^-^

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Goals:

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... looks like i have a long way to go
Seen October 22nd, 2016
Posted January 8th, 2011
786 posts
14.3 Years
The reason why Flying types are strong against Grass is a bit vague, but I believe it can be explained. Flying types were at first mostly based on birds, and even now generally have some bird-like origin. It can be believed that birds have some dominance over Grass, since they typically tear up grass and branches to makes nests and use trees as shelter. (This is more of a symbiotic relationship, but I feel birds get the better side of the bargain)

Another reason is that Bugs eat Grass, and since Flying types target Bugs, they're one step higher on the food-chain. It makes little sense, but I can suppose that it's a "We're your masters; we can save you by eating Bugs, or destroy you by letting them have at you."

I think the Steel question is much easier: metal conducts electricity, letting it flow through it easily. Metal doesn't fight against electricity, it allows it a passage to get from one point to another. Living beings, on the other hand, work against it and in doing so are damaged. Metal works with it.
Seen October 22nd, 2016
Posted January 8th, 2011
786 posts
14.3 Years
True enough, but Water Pokemon typically aren't water... They just have it inside them. The electricity runs through the water and fries their organic parts.

Steel types are unaffected because they're generally entirely steel, so nothing to fry, or because the steel forms a layer of skin or the skin itself is composed similarly to steel so that the electricity runs with it.
Age 27
Male
On the Internet
Seen October 27th, 2013
Posted March 3rd, 2012
454 posts
13.8 Years
Okay, you know how do pokemon, like Quilfish and Lanturn battle out of water? DO they have some kind of special feature that makes them breathe?
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