Oil

Started by Richard Wagner April 23rd, 2009 6:15 PM
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Seen May 24th, 2009
Posted May 23rd, 2009
129 posts
14.2 Years
Even though the other thread was closed due to the mayhem going on there, I think there were still some importance things that were brought up in the thread that should be discussed.

One hypothetical question that was asked by several people was: Oil, or the economy?

A possible "answer" to this question, is that the answer will soon be a resounding "Neither".

Eventually, either the economy will have to be sacrificed (but hold on - there's more to that) or there will have to be some changes to the economy and energy policy, since oil resources will only last another 50 years at very best.

Despite that the people who were saying oil is necessary for the economy are correct, what people should be talking about now is how energy policy needs to change, and how the affluent world needs to become less energy-intense (and this would be very difficult), since clean energy isn't really capable of supporting how it is now.

Either that, or *gasp* -- we have to do away with our competitive, growth economy and adopt a zero-growth economy, in which cooperation and participatory control are stressed.

So in essence, both oil and our current economy will be scrapped.
Seen May 24th, 2009
Posted May 23rd, 2009
129 posts
14.2 Years
Oil is essential to human life. Eventually we will run out, but we're already working on alternatives for when it does.

/thread.
The problem is, those things won't be capable of maintaining the kind of energy the developed Western world uses right now for very long. Even with nuclear energy, taking population growth into account, there will be hundreds of thousands of giant breeder reactors and a few million tons of plutonium necessary to provide everyone with the kind of living standards we currently enjoy. (and then there's the problem of the waste).

txteclipse

The Last

Age 32
Riverside
Seen March 23rd, 2023
Posted November 2nd, 2016
2,322 posts
15.7 Years
The problem is, those things won't be capable of supporting your way of life.
It's your way too, bro. Any time you use plastic, a plane, or most cars, or receive a letter in the mail, or go buy things produced somewhere besides your hometown, you have oil to thank. And why wouldn't the new energy sources support us?

EDIT: Yeah, I'm a pretty heavy editor myself.

The problem is, those things won't be capable of maintaining the kind of energy the developed Western world uses right now for very long.
The thing is, we'll find new energy sources that will support us, or we'll adapt if they don't. We've lived fine off of our ingenuity thus far, why should it fail us now?

Even with nuclear energy, taking population growth into account, there will be hundreds of thousands of giant breeder reactors and a few million tons of plutonium necessary to provide everyone with the kind of living standards we currently enjoy. (and then there's the problem of the waste).
There's these microbes being researched right now that consume radioactive waste.

Seriously, we'll figure out a way to generate the energy we require before or when we absolutely need it. Humans have a knack for getting really smart when survival's on the line.
Seen May 24th, 2009
Posted May 23rd, 2009
129 posts
14.2 Years
It's your way too, bro. Any time you use plastic, a plane, or most cars, or receive a letter in the mail, or go buy things produced somewhere besides your hometown, you have oil to thank. And why wouldn't the new energy sources support us?
As I've said, I realize that oil is what sustains the current standard of living. I think that way of life will have to change due to both oil's many negative aspects and, to answer your question, the fact that renewable energy sources will not provide nearly enough to support transportation. Take plant matter for instance - you need one heck of a lot of plants, which have to be grown, which will take up land, and the amount of land available will not produce a sufficient amount. Solar power would be good if there was a mass migration to the hot regions of the world, but otherwise almost all the energy will be lost being transmitted, say, from Africa to northern Europe.


Seriously, we'll figure out a way to generate the energy we require before or when we absolutely need it. Humans have a knack for getting really smart when survival's on the line.
I think it would be more prudent to expect something less than a best-case scenario.

txteclipse

The Last

Age 32
Riverside
Seen March 23rd, 2023
Posted November 2nd, 2016
2,322 posts
15.7 Years
Take plant matter for instance - you need one heck of a lot of plants, which have to be grown, which will take up land, and the amount of land available will not produce a sufficient amount. Solar power would be good if there was a mass migration to the hot regions of the world, but otherwise almost all the energy will be lost being transmitted, say, from Africa to northern Europe.
Plant matter's a dead end. Dipping into food sources for fuel never made sense to me.

Solar is okay for small stuff and local transport, but what I've got my money on is fuel cells.

I think it would be more prudent to expect something less than a best-case scenario.
It's not like we aren't doing anything. I mean heck, google "alternative energy sources." There's 46.5 million hits. I'm just saying that, realistically, there most likely won't be a problem.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that solar energy is good for making and renewing energy sources locally, which can then be transported elsewhere. Like harvesting and compressing hydrogen for fuel cells.

♣Gawain♣

Onward to Music!!!

Age 32
Male
Moscow, Russia
Seen December 2nd, 2013
Posted November 29th, 2013
4,997 posts
15.4 Years
Oil is good, if we learn how to manage and use them wisely. But oil is depleting, so I suggest we turn to Solar energy. The sun's limitless(not really, after 5 billion years :O), clean and powerful. The only problem is it's still expensive(right?) and a bit difficult to install( the solar panel). Oil is cheap, so many people are inclined to use it in huge quantities. That's enough to worsen the climate.

And there's probably a huge oil deposit in Antarctica, and if we manage to discover it... there will be a great dispute in the future...

VM Δ PMPairsDeviantArtPlaying...ClubsTheme

BHwolfgang

kamikorosu

Age 28
Male
Virginia
Seen February 24th, 2014
Posted May 9th, 2013
3,905 posts
14.2 Years
Okay. I just have a question. Why can't the economy transist from fossil fuel to alternative sources?

Yeah, the fossil fuel would probably run out five scores from now.

When fossil fuel does run out, we can still survive. This has happened before.

I heard about something about scientists making something that can eat radioactive waste. Can one link an article about it to here?

Sweet Candace

So Awesome! /)^ɛ^(\

Age 30
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Somewhere; maybe over a rainbow.
Seen August 26th, 2012
Posted August 20th, 2012
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16.1 Years
The American government is trying to get away from dependency on other people for oil. There are many oil fields in the Great Plains, so why are we too lazy to dig, yet, we're not when it comes to getting oil from other countries?

Frequency

...Time to mix drinks and change lives.

Anatolia
Seen April 14th, 2023
Posted April 14th, 2023
1,115 posts
14.1 Years
One word.
Military.
That's what I think.
"Better to take it over and make them get it for us, then for us to dig for it, right?"

At least, to me it seems that way.
PC's official soundboard guy! (According to everyone else)
ARMORED CORE 6 IS REAL LESGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

/Circa

a face in the clouds.

Male
Melbourne, Victoria
Seen August 11th, 2018
Posted July 29th, 2010
881 posts
15.5 Years
I'm pretty sure I don't need oil to eat an apple, I don't need oil to walk down the street, so i'm pretty sure we CAN live without oil, the only problem is people who rely on cars and can't live without inventions doing the job for them.
dragging himself, forw
ard again, the pain has
still not diminished. E
ventually though, he e
merges inside a v
ery large room w

here everything about

the house

suddenly

changes.

txteclipse

The Last

Age 32
Riverside
Seen March 23rd, 2023
Posted November 2nd, 2016
2,322 posts
15.7 Years
I'm pretty sure I don't need oil to eat an apple, I don't need oil to walk down the street, so i'm pretty sure we CAN live without oil, the only problem is people who rely on cars and can't live without inventions doing the job for them.
Oil brought that apple to you and was used in making that street.

/Circa

a face in the clouds.

Male
Melbourne, Victoria
Seen August 11th, 2018
Posted July 29th, 2010
881 posts
15.5 Years
Oil brought that apple to you and was used in making that street.
:o!
So my garden is artificial? :S
dragging himself, forw
ard again, the pain has
still not diminished. E
ventually though, he e
merges inside a v
ery large room w

here everything about

the house

suddenly

changes.

Frequency

...Time to mix drinks and change lives.

Anatolia
Seen April 14th, 2023
Posted April 14th, 2023
1,115 posts
14.1 Years
:o!
So my garden is artificial? :S
Wonder why our apples don't expire as fast as thay should??

Fine. Walk to work if you want. Me? I'm taking my car to the $18.00 an hour job.
PC's official soundboard guy! (According to everyone else)
ARMORED CORE 6 IS REAL LESGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

txteclipse

The Last

Age 32
Riverside
Seen March 23rd, 2023
Posted November 2nd, 2016
2,322 posts
15.7 Years
:o!
So my garden is artificial? :S
Melbourne has one of the highest urban footprints in the world due to its low density housing, suburban sprawl, and car dependence due to minimal public transport outside of the inner city. Much of the vegetation within the city are non-native species, most of European origin[...].
The constituents of your garden were more than likely brought to you, at least partially, via oil-powered transport.