Phraseology I - Deserve

Started by Gymnotide May 4th, 2009 3:18 AM
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What are your thoughts on the phrase?

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ITT: What do you think of the phrase "All beings deserve the right to live?"
Remember to consider this not just in terms of morals, but in practicality and natural laws.

I was confronted with this phrase one day and it just astounded me how often it is used to combat moral issues such as abortion or cloning, so I thought it would be a good discussion question. I was just a little bit confused over what the "right to live" means and how this phrase is true, given that nature itself does not even follow these rules.

So what do you think?

I'll post my response later in the day when I am not so tired.
lurid/lucid

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Seen May 24th, 2009
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When you say "natural laws" it makes it sound like you're talking about physics or something...but yeah, a lot of non-human organisms die at the hands of other organisms.

Well, I think "everything has the right to live" is a weird thing to say. Death as we know it is an important part of the experience of life. "After-life", reincarnation and all the other infinite things you can experience "after death" are also a part of the experience of life. If you believe a being's soul is imperishable, then it can't be killed....how could anything violate it's "right to life"?

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Anything that does live will at some point lose that right to live. After all, nothing and no-one lives forever. To say you have a right to live is like saying you have a right to remain 21 forever. A nice idea, but logically impossible.

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Well this thread sure seems to have a unanimous opinion. I was hoping for something more bipartisan :|
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lurid/lucid

"I want to tear myself from this place, from this reality, rise up like a cloud and float away, melt into this humid summer night and dissolve somewhere far, over the hills. But I am here, my legs blocks of concrete, my lungs empty of air, my throat burning. There will be no floating away."

Khaled Hosseini

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Kura

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I really don't think people have the "right" to live. I think it's a privilege given to us by some sort of Greater force or greater Good out there.

But I believe life is meant to be cherished. That's why I am neutral.
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txteclipse

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I think humans have a right to not be murdered, if that's what you mean. We kind of need to kill animals to bolster our diet.

But yeah, all rights are moral concepts, so you're not going to get anywhere by leaving morals out of the discussion.

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All humans have the right to live, but not all beings. Such as fleas, lice and other unnamed parasites in the world. And all the domesticated animals and plants, we need them to live.

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Dawson

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I really don't think people have the "right" to live. I think it's a privilege given to us by some sort of Greater force or greater Good out there.
Yup, they're called "parents." Although, calling them the "greater good" is a bit of a stretch.

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It depends of what you think 'being' is, what a 'being' is and when you think 'being' begins.
'Deserve the right to live' This phrase sounds like you have to deserve it, like if you are 'good' then you may deserve the right to live. This is complicated. In the term of morals? ahh? what? You may not get a definite or un-complicated answer to this. My thoughts anyways.
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I disagreed...You don't "deserve" the "right" to live. You have no right. You're just another being the world, helping to destroy it.
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Seen May 24th, 2009
Posted May 23rd, 2009
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I don't think there's any rational foundation for morality, let alone saying something has "the right to live"....

though just because something doesn't have a foundation doesn't mean it isn't true. And with the VERY expanded definition of what "rational" is today, even in academia, just because something DOES have a "rational" foundation doesn't make it true.

TRIFORCE89

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Anything that does live will at some point lose that right to live. After all, nothing and no-one lives forever. To say you have a right to live is like saying you have a right to remain 21 forever. A nice idea, but logically impossible.
Isn't supposed to be like...someone else can't deny you life. You'll live until you expire naturally. But for someone to enforce an end date on you or prevent you from living as long as you would normally would be wrong. Just because you'll die eventually doesn't mean you should expedite or that someone should force that upon you.

Anyway, I don't like these quote. "Rights" are human thing. They shouldn't apply to all living beings. Animals don't have rights.

BHwolfgang

kamikorosu

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...Animals don't have rights.
Are you saying that just because they can't speak out makes them not have rights?

Yes, everything and everyone will die eventually, but during that time; don't he/she/it have the right to live it?

I agree to some point in that saying.
Seen July 30th, 2010
Posted February 21st, 2010
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Not everyone deserves to live.

Personally, I think if you're a criminal who is now in prison, I think that you should be either executed or be stripped of so many rights that you're pretty much living as if your in the Stone Age. Oh, and abortions - Last time I checked fetus' can't think; therefore, they shouldn't live.

TRIFORCE89

Guide of Darkness

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Are you saying that just because they can't speak out makes them not have rights?

Yes, everything and everyone will die eventually, but during that time; don't he/she/it have the right to live it?

I agree to some point in that saying.
No...I'm saying that legally they do not have rights. Laws and rights are human concept that currently applies to humans. In most cases. There's stuff like animal abuse but not much more.
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Not everyone deserves to live.

Personally, I think if you're a criminal who is now in prison, I think that you should be either executed or be stripped of so many rights that you're pretty much living as if your in the Stone Age. Oh, and abortions - Last time I checked fetus' can't think; therefore, they shouldn't live.
"Criminal" is a title gained after birth.
What about the time before they became a criminal?
lurid/lucid

"I want to tear myself from this place, from this reality, rise up like a cloud and float away, melt into this humid summer night and dissolve somewhere far, over the hills. But I am here, my legs blocks of concrete, my lungs empty of air, my throat burning. There will be no floating away."

Khaled Hosseini

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whoever disabled my signature:
my signature is not even close to 300px tall.
i dont understand why it was disabled.
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Eh- I'm only going to hit abortion here, because I'm tired and it's late.
Maybe I'll start this post off epistolary style:

ABORTION
Maleviolence or a Right?

This "abortion" debate has been going on for a long time. I really wanted to say this especially to it; If a woman gets pregnaunt, Most likeyl, she had sex to get that baby.

Okay, let's say she didn't want it. She didn't plan for it. It was a product of a fling or something. Here is what Miss. Mom and Mr. Dad should have done:

KEPT IT IN THEIR FREAKING PANTS

God people, is it REALLY that painstakingly hard to just keep the boxers on?!
REALLY?!

No, we just got to have the lastest pleasure fad: SEXUAL INTERCOURSE! *Blam!*

It starting to seem like sex is just a thing you do nowadays rather than an act of love. A now that girls are getting pregnaunt, it's the end of the world because your reproductive organs were doing their job.

So, is it really the fetus's fault that it's there?
No, it isn't.

It didn't really ask to be born. It's just a biproduct of two people bumping uglies.

And now, since you don't want to learn your lesson about meaningless sex, you take the perfectly fine fetus and jank it out through terrible means.

The fetus could've have become the greatest mind the world would've known!
but no, Miss. Mom made it's fate dead tissue covered in blood in a abortion clinc's hands.

Basically, yes, you're killing a would-have-been person.
Meh. If you can live with yourself, you can live with murder of your own child, then it really isn't my problem.

Who talks for the fetus?
Hm?

Does it just... not get a right?
Does it not get a say in it's fate?
What are we? The slave owners of fetuses?

What if it was you that got aborted?
Would you have mind?

If you like yourself enough, yeah you would.
OH WELL!
YOU'RE DEAD.
KTHX FOR TRYING.

See my point?
It's like a punch in the face. of death.

If the girl was raped, then that's another story, becuase the kid would have a terrible life anyway, and the mom would always look at the kid and see her stolen innocence.

Anyway, my 2 cents. Please agree or deny. I'm off to bed.
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JD, I think you had a bit of a, how to put it, wording problem? If you say fetus shouldn't exist, you deserved to die before you were born, as did all people whom you love and respect. Do you agree with that? I'm 100% against abortion, because if you were stupid enough to go and get yourself into something you couldn't handle, you should deal with all consequences. Not, of course that any child is just a punishment, but still a valuable, sentient, human life. In the case of a rape, I would have to study up more.

On murderers, I say if they haven't yet committed a crime they shouldn't be punished. If they were plotting to, they should receive punishment somehow, but certainly not killed. If one did commit murder, however, I say depending on how many people were injured or murdered, and how premeditated the crime was, he should be put to death, preferably by the method of having a group of men with guns, firing all at the same time, and all but one firing blanks. This would be chosen at random, so nobody- nobody at all- knows who got the gun with the shot, and it could by no means traced back to him, so no one could be called a murderer themselves.
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I slightly disagree on this. Why?

Because there are bacterias, pests, and viruses that destroy organisms and unbalance the Biosphere.

I consider viruses as "Beings" because they exist and contain self working RNA sequences, but "alive" is still debatable. But viruses still exist and interact negatively with organisms. That is why I slightly disagree on that phrase.

ShinjisLover

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Some people do not care at all. If you ask me, it's a genetic thing.
Not true. Everyone has someone or something they care about very much, just like everyone has emotions.

As for the actual topic at hand, it really depends on who you're talking about. Have they assaulted someone (sexually or otherwise)? Have they killed someone?

I do believe everyone has the right to live; however, I also believe in capital punishment. It depends on how said person lives their life.