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  #1    
Old May 27th, 2009 (3:39 AM). Edited June 5th, 2009 by Archer.
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Archer Archer is offline
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~ Final Destination ~
Sequel to "Caffeine Arena"



This may be my final attempt at a team, so I want it to be successful. It's basically just an offensive team that hits hard, with no underlying strategy.

The Squad




Breloom (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Superpower
- Seed Bomb
- Stone Edge

Comments: My useful lead. I refuse to run common leads and this is no exception. Fast sleep shuts down non-Lum Berry leads, Seed Bomb OHKOs Swampert, Stone Edge does a ton to Gyarados/Zapdos and other stuff that commonly switches in. Superpower is the most powerful STAB.



Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Reflect

Comments: I chose this over Zapdos because it isn't weak to Stealth Rock, to be honest. Plus it gives me a decent switchin for fighters and predicted Explosions. Reflect over Will-o-wisp to give me a more flexible bulk-boost. I am considering a TrickScarf/Specs set, to run with the more offensive theme.




Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 Atk/176 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Comments: MixMence is great for generally breaking holes in stuff both early and late game. Given the high rate of Bullet Punch and Ice Shard, this can just switch out more easily than DDMence, unless I opt to use Outrage, but I usually scout a bit first. My EVs outspeed Jolly Lucario with Ice Punch



Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang/Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Comments: This provides me with another Scizor check as well as a reliable switchin to Heatran, which is a pain. I usually go with Ice Fang, as it lets do a number on Latias, who usually expects to wall this. Plus, the higher accuracy than Stone Edge is always nice. It's more of a preference thing. This can function as either an early game opener, or a late-game sweeper. The latter probably suits the situation better, given the 'breakdown' theme on the rest of the team.



Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower

Comments: Generic Scizor is generic. Scizor is my backup for revenging and taking a few resisted hits. It hasn't stood out on this team, so I am considering another bulky Steel, probably Metagross. Debatable Position.



Suicune @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf/Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- HP Electric

Comments: Suicune is great for several reasons. Firstly, it provides another (albeit not perfect) check to Gyarados, which is important. It also fits well into the team, as Blissey is fairly easy to take out, as the rest of my team isn't bothered by it. (Aside from Rotom, who's not sweeping) Gyarados also puts the hurt on bulky waters, making Suicune's sweep easier and vice-versa. I'm not sure whether to go with Hydro Pump or Surf, as Timid takes away some power, and I loved using Hydro Pump on Starmie in the past, but it's risky and I should be able to get in a few CM's anyway.

Before you decide to be a hero, jumping in to tell me I have no underlying strategy, I'm quite aware of this. There is indeed no special theme or intention to sweep with a particular Pokémon, however the idea of the team is to pummel the opposition with hard-hitting moves, such as Mence's Outrage/Draco Meteor, Scizor's U-Turn, etc or try to sleep stuff with Breloom, so the team is a crippled as possible when Gyara or Suicune come in to sweep.

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  #2    
Old May 30th, 2009 (9:20 AM).
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Max™ Max™ is offline
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    I dunno what to say except that it looks like a team I might enjoy using. For Azelf, Im not sure if you put timid on purpose or if it's standard on smogon or something else but, you could try naive/hasty so explosion leaves more of a dent ?
      #3    
    Old May 30th, 2009 (4:11 PM).
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    Archer Archer is offline
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    That was a just a typo, thought I fixed that. =/

    I am thinking of putting Gyarados over TTar and Rotom over Zapdos. I'm not great with CBTar and DDTar can't sweep with Scizor around, anymore. Rotom takes out the need for another SR Weak and gives me a Ghost, which never hurts.

    Opinions?
      #4    
    Old May 30th, 2009 (5:38 PM).
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    Ársa Ársa is offline
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      Well considering you have Zapdos, which really doesn't fear anything from Scizor, I wouldn't worry about Scizor annoying TTar. I used Zapdos > Rotom on my other team, and I actually think Zappy does it better than Rotom does.

      Zapdos @ Leftovers
      Calm
      248 HP / 60 Def / 164 SpD / 36 Spe
      Pressure

      Light Screen
      Thunderbolt
      Heat Wave
      Roost

      Beats Scizor everytime, and beats any opposing Rotom trying to check your Scizor.
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        #5    
      Old May 30th, 2009 (6:04 PM). Edited May 30th, 2009 by Archer.
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      Archer Archer is offline
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      Oh, I'm not worried about being swept, but it's not going to stay in to be roasted. Plus SR takes it's toll and if I add Gyara, I don't want another weak. Also, why did you suggest Rotom in the first place, then?

      Imma update the OP with some changes.

      Removing:
      Spoiler:


      Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
      Ability: Sand Stream
      EVs: 176 HP/252 Atk/80 Spd
      Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
      - Stone Edge
      - Crunch
      - Pursuit
      - Aqua Tail

      Comments: TTar has two functions on this team. It is one of my Primary Sledgehammers, like Mence, but can take a few special hits, eg Heatran. Aqua Tail is mainly there for Gliscor, which causes Breloom trouble. I am fairly bad at using it, despite how I try. Due to this, it is debatable. Debatable Position.


      For:
      Spoiler:


      Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb
      Ability: Intimidate
      EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
      Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
      - Dragon Dance
      - Waterfall
      - Ice Fang/Stone Edge
      - Earthquake
        #6    
      Old May 30th, 2009 (6:17 PM). Edited May 30th, 2009 by Ársa.
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      Ársa Ársa is offline
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        I suggested Rotom because previously I assumed it to be better. Now that you've removed TTar there's 1 less fighting weak, and Gyarados resists it. As well as that, I was interchanging Rotom and Zapdos on my team yesterday and Zapdos seemed to do overall better both 1 on 1 and with team support.

        Also, can Breloom switch into a SDLuke's attack and then survive an Extremespeed to KO? Because Zapdos, Gyarados and Salamence fall to Stone Edge, and if Scizor is below say 80% CC is a KO. Normally Intimidate would be ok if you then switch to something which resists, then rinse and repeat the process. Problem is Gyara and Mence are both weak to SE. Perhaps Gliscor > Breloom as a lead, or SDGliscor > Gyara? idk, if you think you can play around it (Intimidate) then ok, but +2 SE OHKO's Mence and Gyaraods, +2 Extremespeed I assume would KO Breloom, Azelf is in a similar boat and Scizor won't like CC.

        Gliscor @ Leftovers
        Jolly
        252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe
        Hyper Cutter / Sand Veil

        Swords Dance
        Earthquake
        Ice Fang / Taunt
        Stone Edge

        or for a lead

        Gliscor @ Leftovers
        Jolly
        252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe
        Hyper Cutter / Sand Veil

        Earthquake
        Roost
        Taunt
        U-turn
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        The Bank Vault - An XY Trade Thread

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          #7    
        Old May 30th, 2009 (7:34 PM).
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        Aquilae Aquilae is offline
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          Gyarados 6-0s you after a DD. Jolly variants can outspeed Breloom and OHKO, as well as OHKO everything else on your team after SR. Adamant Gyarados is outspeeded by Breloom but it doesn't need SR to demolish your team. Scizor Bullet Punch only does ~30%, and without your own SR it would be very difficult to defeat it once it has a DD under its belt.

          Get a faster Scarfer or use something that can take a hit from Gyarados. Alternatively you might want to replace Scizor for something else, that doesn't allow Gyarados to setup on you.

          Luke also can demolish your team, Salamence is a very shaky counter since it takes ~60% from SD LO ES, meaning with LO + SS + SR damage it would be dead. Scizor obviously can't do much to Lucario, and Breloom gets OHKOed by LO ES. Any Luke carrying CC / Stone Edge / Extremespeed would cause considerable damage. Relying on Zapdos / Gyarados to combat Ice Punch / Crunch variants is very shaky since Luke can carry any of those three moves, SD LO ES does min 60% to Gyara, 47% to Zapdos which would take them down after prior damage.

          Replace Azelf with something else, its mostly Blissey / Latias bait and you don't need to explode on either of them since your team handles both well.
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            #8    
          Old May 30th, 2009 (7:47 PM).
          Anti's Avatar
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          Obnoxious Emerald sprites aside (ugh, moving things make actually analyzing the team distracting, lol), I agree with Aquilae that Azelf doesn't really fit here - you already have two Pursuit users (both of which give Lucario the opportunity to come in and rip your team to pieces as it is) to get rid of Blissey and friends, and even luring in Heatran isn't really useful for this team. I would replace it with a more offensively capable late-game sweeper, preferably one that benefits from the rest of your team. Offensive Suicune could work since Salamence wears down Waters and Cresselia pretty quickly, and it serves as a check to Gyarados (though using the only thing you have that can actually sweep to counter something like Gyarados has its drawbacks, obviously). If you want more power, you could go with something like Superachi or something to that effect.

          Ugh new MixMence and Sand Stream don't exactly go hand in hand, but I guess it'll do. But if you're using it for its ability to switch out more than normal DDMence, that's not really true at all...both lock themselves into Outrage and they will lose to that. But assuming you keep it, the EVs don't make a lot of sense...it's going to get crushed from all of the residual damage that Aquilae mentioned and then by Extremespeed anyway...and the "similar stuff" is Timid Specs Porygon-Z I guess? I mean, you might as well invest in power since the Speed is pretty useless.

          EDIT: and by the way, you don't have to VM me every time you post a new RMT. It's my job to view your thread, and even before that was true, I viewed all of S&M's RMTs anyway lol...
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            #9    
          Old May 30th, 2009 (9:15 PM).
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          Archer Archer is offline
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          Thanks for the rates, I'm absorbing it all. I've made a few changes. Gyarados > TTar means everything else sticks around a little longer thanks to the lack of SS. It also serves as another Scizor check and I've had more practise using it. Rotom-A over Zapdos can be useful for both Lucario and Gyara if I scarf it, although I am thinking of putting Life Orb Starmie, Suicune or even Latias over Azelf. I'd prefer to go with Starmie, given having better experiences with it. I've always found CMCune aside from Crocune tough to use.

          Opinions?

          Oh and Anti, about the VM. The thread went for 2 days without views, so I figured I'd get you to have a look. Suddenly, everyone posts on the one day. =/ Sorry if it irritated you.
            #10    
          Old May 31st, 2009 (12:16 AM).
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            Okay, its a fairly decent team.

            I'd suggest running Rash/Mild > Naive just for the extra power. The only major thing you'll outrun is Luke.

            Azelf doesn't seem to fit into the team that well and it isn't doing that much, I think that Latias could work or maybe even Jirachi =/

            I don't like the New Mixmence to be honest. Draco Meteor/Brick Break/Fire Blast/Roost works better in my opinion, Outrage is gonna lock you in and then you're not running away from Ice Shards or Bullet Punches anymore

            Nothing else from me, its a nice team Archer
              #11    
            Old May 31st, 2009 (1:57 AM).
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            Syaoran Syaoran is offline
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              I don't like the massive SR weak you have here. Another issue is the ability to take T-wave, which your team really hates. Jolteon over Azelf could help out, it's faster and hits very hard with LO or Specs. Jirachi over Zapdos could help out taking those overpowered dragon moves, also providing you with SR of your own - you could try the Expert Belt set with Iron Head, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, and SR.
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                #12    
              Old May 31st, 2009 (3:53 AM).
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              Archer Archer is offline
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Pokedra View Post
              Okay, its a fairly decent team.

              I'd suggest running Rash/Mild > Naive just for the extra power. The only major thing you'll outrun is Luke.

              Azelf doesn't seem to fit into the team that well and it isn't doing that much, I think that Latias could work or maybe even Jirachi =/

              I don't like the New Mixmence to be honest. Draco Meteor/Brick Break/Fire Blast/Roost works better in my opinion, Outrage is gonna lock you in and then you're not running away from Ice Shards or Bullet Punches anymore ;)

              Nothing else from me, its a nice team Archer :)
              Azelf is a filler if anything. As I said before, I'm tossing up between Latias, Starmie and Suicune for that slot. Probably a CM Set where it applies.

              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Syaoran View Post
              I don't like the massive SR weak you have here. Another issue is the ability to take T-wave, which your team really hates. Jolteon over Azelf could help out, it's faster and hits very hard with LO or Specs. Jirachi over Zapdos could help out taking those overpowered dragon moves, also providing you with SR of your own - you could try the Expert Belt set with Iron Head, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, and SR.
              That's part of the reason I want to swap Rotom for Zapdos. I could run Psycho Shift Latias in the last slot. Just an idea... I'm thinking about your Jirachi, although I feel it fits over the Scizor slot more, but I need the priority. I have considered Gross over Scizor for the added bulk. It plays similarly to Jirachi and gets Bullet Punch.

              This is great, guys, keep it coming. I just need to decide on the Azelf slot. The rest are easy changes.
                #13    
              Old May 31st, 2009 (11:32 AM).
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              Sebastien Loeb Sebastien Loeb is offline
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                I don't see covers the weakness to ice and elettric, you have an elevated weakness to Weavile, the fact that you don't have Stealth Rock it doesn't help yourself of certain against him. ScarfFlygon you from a lot of bother, and I don't generally see a strategy of base, 6 Pokémon seem me put at random.
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                  #14    
                Old June 3rd, 2009 (4:54 AM).
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                Archer Archer is offline
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                Okay, I'm replacing:

                Spoiler:

                Zapdos @ Leftovers
                Ability: Pressure
                EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
                Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
                - Thunderbolt
                - Heat Wave
                - Hidden Power [Grass/Ice]
                - Roost


                Comments: Scizor counter and a generally reliable check for Gyarados. It's handy enough, but I haven't found it to be an MVP. Roost keeps it alive without any way of removing SR, etc. Grass/Ice dilemma depends on whether I can keep Breloom alive and is handy for taking down Flygon, etc. Debatable Position.


                For:
                Spoiler:


                Rotom-H @ Leftovers
                Ability: Levitate
                EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 Spd
                Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
                - Thunderbolt
                - Overheat
                - Shadow Ball
                - Reflect

                Notes: I chose this over Zapdos because it isn't weak to Stealth Rock, to be honest. Plus it gives me a decent switchin for fighters and predicted Explosions. Reflect over Will-o-wisp to give me a more flexible bulk-boost. I am considering a TrickScarf/Specs set, to run with the more offensive theme.


                I'm also seriously considering putting Offensive CM Latias over Azelf. Opinions?
                  #15    
                Old June 3rd, 2009 (2:15 PM).
                Ársa's Avatar
                Ársa Ársa is offline
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                  Well I've been running SubCM Latias lately, and it's the best set I've used for Latias imo.

                  Latias @ Salac Berry
                  Timid
                  4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
                  Levitate

                  Substitute
                  Calm Mind
                  Dragon Pulse
                  Surf / Recover

                  Sweeps maybe 1/3 teams I face.
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                  The Bank Vault - An XY Trade Thread

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                    #16    
                  Old June 3rd, 2009 (2:32 PM).
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                  timekaiser timekaiser is offline
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                    Breloom is wasting his Poison Heal without a Toxic Orb you might want to think about changing his effect to Effect Spore if your not going to use the Toxic Orb...just a thought
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                      #17    
                    Old June 3rd, 2009 (2:56 PM).
                    Anti's Avatar
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by timekaiser View Post
                    Breloom is wasting his Poison Heal without a Toxic Orb you might want to think about changing his effect to Effect Spore if your not going to use the Toxic Orb...just a thought
                    Effect Spore is pretty useless in most cases, but Poison Heal allows Breloom to have an immunity to Toxic Spikes (and the Poison status is general), which can be very valuable.
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                      #18    
                    Old June 3rd, 2009 (3:16 PM).
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                      Oh i completely forgot about Toxic Spikes haha xD *Sweatdrops*
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                        #19    
                      Old June 3rd, 2009 (9:48 PM).
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                      Archer Archer is offline
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                      Okay then, thanks T_S.

                      Out with:

                      Spoiler:


                      Azelf @ Life Orb
                      Ability: Levitate
                      EVs: 36 Atk/220 Spd/252 SAtk
                      Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
                      - Explosion
                      - Psychic
                      - Hidden Power Ground
                      - Fire Blast/Flamethrower


                      Comments: The newest addition to the team. This basically runs with the theme of blind heavy offence. HP Ground lets it take out Heatran, as well as dealing a fair bit of damage to TTar Fire Blast hits like a truck, but Flamethrower lets me get a sure KO on Scizor, which goes down to either.


                      Latias @ Salac Berry
                      Ability: Levitate
                      EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd
                      Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
                      - Substitute
                      - Calm Mind
                      - Dragon Pulse
                      - Recover/Surf

                      Comments: Despite the fact that I'm taking this on suggestion, it gives me a decent switchin for Gyarados among other things. I am considering CMCune over this, although Latias is faster setting up. Increased coverage vs more longevity, it depends...
                        #20    
                      Old June 4th, 2009 (12:06 PM).
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Archer View Post
                      Okay then, thanks T_S.

                      Out with:

                      Spoiler:


                      Azelf @ Life Orb
                      Ability: Levitate
                      EVs: 36 Atk/220 Spd/252 SAtk
                      Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
                      - Explosion
                      - Psychic
                      - Hidden Power Ground
                      - Fire Blast/Flamethrower


                      Comments: The newest addition to the team. This basically runs with the theme of blind heavy offence. HP Ground lets it take out Heatran, as well as dealing a fair bit of damage to TTar Fire Blast hits like a truck, but Flamethrower lets me get a sure KO on Scizor, which goes down to either.


                      Latias @ Salac Berry
                      Ability: Levitate
                      EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd
                      Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
                      - Substitute
                      - Calm Mind
                      - Dragon Pulse
                      - Recover/Surf

                      Comments: Despite the fact that I'm taking this on suggestion, it gives me a decent switchin for Gyarados among other things. I am considering CMCune over this, although Latias is faster setting up. Increased coverage vs more longevity, it depends...
                      Dude, that's easily OHKOed by a Gyarados Ice Fang after a DD...even LO Stone Edge OHKOes the majority of the time with SR down. Besides, Dragon Pulse isn't going to kill it in one hit since Gyarados has pretty good SDef. And yeah, in case you didn't notice, I'm not really sold on using that Latias, especially since it lacks support to say the very least. Seriously, you barely beat Steels, and Tyranitar isn't lured or really beaten a whole lot by anything.

                      Also, don't use Rotom-H with a Scarf lol...it's so horrible it isn't even funny. I honestly don't know why that's so popular on PC because it dies to everything and is set-up fodder. Rotom-H, though I'm no fan, fits pretty well on this team, but don't make it suck. It's not even my hatred of Scarf either...it's just that Rotom is a terrible user of the item.
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                        #21    
                      Old June 4th, 2009 (2:00 PM).
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                      Archer Archer is offline
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                      Well can you suggest a Suicune set that can take out Gyara as well as setting up?

                      I appreciate the help, but a little advice on what to replace with what couldn't hurt.
                        #22    
                      Old June 4th, 2009 (9:37 PM).
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Archer View Post
                      Well can you suggest a Suicune set that can take out Gyara as well as setting up?

                      I appreciate the help, but a little advice on what to replace with what couldn't hurt.
                      I answered all of that in my previous post and gave you advice. There's no point in reposting it (especially when you didn't take the advice to begin with) =/
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                        #23    
                      Old June 4th, 2009 (10:26 PM).
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Anti View Post
                      I answered all of that in my previous post and gave you advice. There's no point in reposting it (especially when you didn't take the advice to begin with) =/
                      I was refering to a particular set. I take it you just suggest the standard Offensive? I didn't turn it down, I was tossing up between it and a few similar solutions that I was more familiar with. I wasn't thinking when I used that Latias set, although Rotom does cover Gyara to some extent. Please don't act like I'm being ungrateful or act like I should know better. It's been a while since I've made a team and quite frankly, this is turning into a chore.

                      Anyway...

                      Suicune @ Life Orb
                      Timid | Pressure
                      [ 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spd ]
                      ~ Calm Mind
                      ~ Surf/Hydro Pump
                      ~ Ice Beam
                      ~ HP Electric

                      Is that satisfactory?
                       

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