Life on other Worlds? Page 2

Started by Ultraviolence July 28th, 2009 2:26 AM
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Its kinda odd to assume with no proof that we are alone in this universe.

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I don't know. There are tons of people who think.. "There are trillions and trillions of planets out there, so odds are, one of them has some form of life." But... why?

Okay, the universe is... bigger than we can imagine, lets say infinite. Going by this, there are also an infinite amount of galaxies, stars, solar systems, and planets. Lets say the universe always has been and always will be. Time is infinite in both directions. Forever and always.

People seem to take time out of the equation when they assume there's extraterrestrial life out there. What if there isn't life out there yet? What if we're too late, and missed them? What if they never evolved past microscopic life forms? What if they aren't far enough along to develop intelligence yet?

99.9% of all terrestrial beings are extinct. Life is fragile. What's to say they still exist? We won't be around forever. Eventually we'll go the way of the dodo or Tasmanian tiger. Lets face it, we're lucky to have made it this far. We're flying through space, dodging asteroids, slowly using up our natural resources, irreparably damaging our planet... why would extraterrestrials be luckier? Maybe their last 0.1% finally got it too.

Then there's another problem: we're basically stuck here, and there's no reason to assume that any currently living extraterrestrials have more advanced technology than us and are on a planet close enough to stumble upon us... or that they care. Maybe they aren't as obsessed with other planets as we are, and just worry about their own?

So... even if there is currently life on another distant planet, we're almost certainly too far away for it to effect us in any way. And if there's unintelligent life somewhere within reach, like a moon in our solar system, like microscopic organisms, then we won't be around long enough for them to evolve into anything interesting. If by some ridiculous chance they're animal-like in intelligence, then... whoo, aliens? So what if there's like- jellyfish on Neptune or something? We probably can't bring them here, we for sure can't go there, so... it still doesn't really effect us, other than getting everyone excited and causing them to waste more time, money and effort looking for more when they could be doing something useful on Earth.

tl;dr = It doesn't matter because it's basically impossible for us to contact each other, if they're even alive at this point in time.

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I'm a fairly scientific and religious person so here's my view.

Life is a relative term. Generally we think something is a living being when it is carbon/nitrogen/ect. based manifestation of something that can grow and reproduce. However, as I've said, life is a relative term. There could be other forms of life that are not element based nor are physical. They could be photon based, heat based, energy based life forms that do not necessarily have to grow old or reproduce. They would not even have to think.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is. With other creatures, the definition of life varies. For example, a rock at the side of the road. It does not breathe, does not grow, does not reproduce, and it doesn't think. To us, that would mean that it was not a living organism. But, from a rock's point of view, it is there it exists and it has cousins (i.e. gravel, quartz, heavy metals) therefore from its point of view it is a living thing. To it, humans could just be natural phenomena.

Life as I've said is a very relative. Who's to say that beams of light are not life. Even more radical would be, beings made of light. Beings made of heat. Who knows, maybe dark matter is a sentient form of life that makes up much of the mass of the universe.

If, you're still insistent on life on other planets. More commonly speaking, intelligent life. You can use the Drake Equation.

The Drake equation states that:
where:
N is the number of civilizations in our galaxy in which communication might be possible; and
R* is the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxy
f
p is the fraction of those stars that have planets
n
e is the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
f
ℓ is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
f
i is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
f
c is the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L is the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.[2]
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I don't know. There are tons of people who think.. "There are trillions and trillions of planets out there, so odds are, one of them has some form of life." But... why?

Okay, the universe is... bigger than we can imagine, lets say infinite. Going by this, there are also an infinite amount of galaxies, stars, solar systems, and planets. Lets say the universe always has been and always will be. Time is infinite in both directions. Forever and always.

People seem to take time out of the equation when they assume there's extraterrestrial life out there. What if there isn't life out there yet? What if we're too late, and missed them? What if they never evolved past microscopic life forms?
There are a lot of 'What if's to this topic. The point is that we suspect that there ARE other life forms on other planets at this very moment based on the theory that the universe must hold another planet with life because of its colossal size.

It would just be awkward for me to think that this is the only planet in the WHOLE universe to hold life at this very moment.
What if there isn't life out there yet? We'll never be 100% sure of that unless we analyze every possible planet in the universe. We're looking for nearby lifeforms; if they aren't out there yet then that's too bad for us.
If we find out that life has existed on a planet before, then that would play a clue in a theory that will lead us to find out how life began on earth. There's a big mystery for ya.
What if they haven't evolved past microscopic organisms yet? Well, regardless of what stage of evolution they are at, analysis can, as mentioned previously, aid in studies in how life on earth began and related subjects.

I am a strong believer of the theory that we aren't alone in this universe. Theres a HUUUGE amount of space in ... space. It would be ridiculous to think that we, as small as the earth is compared to the universe, would be the ONLY creatures alive.

99.9% of all terrestrial beings are extinct. Life is fragile. What's to say they still exist? We won't be around forever. Eventually we'll go the way of the dodo or Tasmanian tiger. Lets face it, we're lucky to have made it this far. We're flying through space, dodging asteroids, slowly using up our natural resources, irreparably damaging our planet... why would extraterrestrials be luckier? Maybe their last 0.1% finally got it too.

Then there's another problem: we're basically stuck here, and there's no reason to assume that any currently living extraterrestrials have more advanced technology than us and are on a planet close enough to stumble upon us... or that they care. Maybe they aren't as obsessed with other planets as we are, and just worry about their own?

So... even if there is currently life on another distant planet, we're almost certainly too far away for it to effect us in any way. And if there's unintelligent life somewhere within reach, like a moon in our solar system, like microscopic organisms, then we won't be around long enough for them to evolve into anything interesting. If by some ridiculous chance they're animal-like in intelligence, then... whoo, aliens? So what if there's like- jellyfish on Neptune or something? We probably can't bring them here, we for sure can't go there, so... it still doesn't really effect us, other than getting everyone excited and causing them to waste more time, money and effort looking for more when they could be doing something useful on Earth.

tl;dr = It doesn't matter because it's basically impossible for us to contact each other, if they're even alive at this point in time.
Curiosity killed the cat, I suppose. You know a large amount of science is tied into the same point you make. You could apply your point to historical studies, such as what happened before our generation, how the earth began, study of dinosaurs, etc.
If there is any life out there we have not proved it yet.
I did not know that.
wut. wut y wuld ther b aliens?
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Of course there is other life out in the Universe, what form this life takes however, is debatable.
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I am a believer of the Rare Earth theory. I believe that life is very rare in the universe and that the properties of life on Earth and everything that is necessary for there to be life like the size of the planet, star, the presence of an atmosphere, satellites, and many more things is very rare in the universe. While I do believe there is life out there I don't think it's quite as common as everyone believes. Also, to the people who are saying the universe is infinite, it's not, the space in the universe is infinite but mass and matter are finite. It is in theory infinitely expanding and if that theory is true, which it probably is, then we are all going to die eventually because the temperature will eventually reach absolute zero which is the temperature at which molecules stop moving. This is called heat death and it is inevitable. This of course if we survive the destruction of life on our planet by our sun. Yup, the long term future looks bleak for all life.

Or you know, God could save us all.
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The original Drake equation:


Can be rewritten as
I'm impressed someone else is familiar with the Drake equation. Carl Sagan used it, and I even saw him calculate it once on Cosmos. If I remember, the number is surprisingly low, and some factors involved in the equation are based on assumptions, which slightly diminishes the quantitative aspect of it. But I still like it, and highly respect Drake for coming up with it.

Arthur C. Clarke made a small speech in Stanley Kubrick: A Life in Pictures that will always stay with me. I don't remember it verbatim, but I'll see if I can get the general gist of it down:

"Behind every man now alive stand thirty ghosts, for that is the ratio by which the dead outnumber the living. Since the dawn of time, roughly a hundred billion human beings have walked the planet Earth. Now this is an interesting number, for by a curious coincidence there are approximately a hundred billion stars in our local universe, the Milky Way. So there is enough space in just our Galaxy for everyone living, and everyone who has ever lived, to have their own world." - Arthur C. Clarke

To think that there is not life out there somewhere is somewhat presumptuous. Probability-speaking, it's less likely that there isn't life out there, when you think about it.

EDIT:

It is in theory infinitely expanding and if that theory is true, which it probably is, then we are all going to die eventually because the temperature will eventually reach absolute zero which is the temperature at which molecules stop moving. This is called heat death and it is inevitable. This of course if we survive the destruction of life on our planet by our sun. Yup, the long term future looks bleak for all life.
It's still debated if Absolute Zero could be even reached. I believe we've come close to 0.0 K, but never got to it. We also don't know what would happen if we ever did. If electrons stopped moving, it's possible the matter would just fall apart. But, taking magnetic force into account, it could be highly dangerous. There are many possibilities! Although, new suns are being formed every day, so it's not like the Universe will become a barren wasteland of giant rocks. Not to mention the rate at which the Universe is expanding is diminishing, if I remember.

Now, Heat Death (the theory) assumes that Entropy will continue to the logical extreme, but doesn't take into account random chance. It's kind of like the absolutist theories, but applied to the inverse. In that sense, Heat Death is rather hard to believe. I was always a fan of the Big Crunch myself (a nice, almost epic closure), but I think that's basically been proven wrong, right? But still, who wouldn't want to become a Black Hole Singularity? haha

Or you know, God could save us all.
I kinda doubt that. :-)
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I do think that there's life out there somewhere, considering how huge the universe is. I also think that some of it may be as intelligent or more intelligent than humanity. I hope that in the future, people from Earth will be able to make friends with people from other worlds.

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Although the chances are pretty low of life forms remotely similar to us arising, I don't believe that out of the whole universe, this tiny blue dot is the only place for life. Life can arise in certain conditions, so maybe not all planets need to be similar to ours to hold the same life forms. They just had to be similar in the primordial form.

I can't believe I forgot about the water channels on Mars, and how Venus was formed similarly to Earth early in its life. If this is all possible in our own solar system, why can't it in distant galaxies?
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I definitely believe there is life on other planets.

I highly doubt that this life is located in our solar system, or else we probably would've already found it. Also, it may not be in our galaxy, either. But surely, there's life somewhere. In a neighboring galaxy, maybe? Or in a galaxy that's farther away? There's got to be life somewhere out there besides planet Earth. ^^
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There's life out there, but we don't know it yet. We don't have the technology to communicate, or even detect life(advanced or simple) forms on the space. The universe's so big(observable=+15 billion lt. years) that's impossible, I repeat impossible that we are the only living forms in this universe. There may be 3 or more in our galaxy(rare yeah, can be calculated in the theoretical Drake's equation. But that's not the answer, it's an assumption on how rare other life forms), maybe they're just bacterias, but definitely life.

And maybe on other galaxies, we don't just know it. All hail little green men!

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I suppose we could colonize Saturn's moons one day. Observing Saturn's beauty would automatically make those moons worth living on, right?

So the colonists spent their days studying Saturn, drinking the moon's water, communicating with earth, writing new fantasy stories.

Traveling to the moon shouldn't be a big deal given our nuclear propulsion technology. Only problem is that the cost isn't really justifiable. I'd personally give a good share of my income into colonizing Europa's moons, but I doubt society on the whole cares to.

I don't believe there's life out there within a distance of 4 light years way from earth. The only planets that's been seen so far are gas planets. And gas planets are only good for eye candy.

Beyond 4 light years away from earth, there's no reason for there not to be an resourceful, habitable planet with the right climate somewhere though. I don't think there's life there, but I'd love for mankind to bring life there.

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I was always a fan of the Big Crunch myself (a nice, almost epic closure), but I think that's basically been proven wrong, right? But still, who wouldn't want to become a Black Hole Singularity?


I support the Big Crunch theory.

As more and more matter is "formed", the total amount of gravity increases (more dips and pockets in space-time). Eventually, the force of gravity will be enough to halt the universal expansion and pull everything back inward. The now-ultracompressed, ultraheated matter will likely explode with a force equal to the original Big Bang.

In short, Big Bang, Crunch, repeat ad infinitum.

One thing I think is interesting is the concept of matter conservation. The particles that make me could, in the next iteration of the universe, make a new human...

Long-term reincarnation, anyone?

I wonder which generation of the universe we're in. Maybe the first... maybe the 8th... maybe more?
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Obviously, there'd be life on other planets. It might not be intelligent, but there should be life somewhere else in the universe. I mean, the universe is so extensive that it would be impossible for there not to be other life forms.

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There is life out there, and probably more advanced then us. Think about it- we're late starters in evolution. We had to wait 65 million years or more for our ancestors to grasp the concept of walking on their hind legs. Maybe if dinosaurs had never been wiped out by a massive asteroid that raised all seven levels of hell in 10 minutes, maybe raptors would be the dominant species and already be making contact with aliens.

Searching for life in the galaxy with the methods available to us now is like looking for a minnow in an Olympic-sized pool filled with ink. Next to impossible.

Now Earth is a fairly new planet (4.5 billion years estimated) there are going to be star systems twice as old as ours, and those would probably be the ones that hold life. And if the life out there is taking the same approach to the search for life that we are, God help us all. Scanning deep space for radio waves is not the way to search for life. It's a waste of time, money, and resources.

Further more, our scientists have somehow gotten the idiotic idea that all life has to evolve on planets exactly like ours. There could be methane based life or silicon based life. If it's a chemical, then it's possible that some kind of life evolved around it. Which means we shift our gaze away from the big picture and into a smaller and smaller area of interest.
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Life on other planets is possible.
Earth is not just some "accident" that ended up with life.

In fact, there is evidence that we were visted by aliens hundreds on hundreds of years back.
(It's actually quite interesting if you don't know what I'm talking about, I suggest you search it up.)
lol... you don't even understand how much of an accident it is that there is life on Earth. It was a miracle that a mass just the right size collided with Earth and formed the moon, which we wouldn't be able to live without. It's a miracle that the Earth is in just the right position to be the right temperature for life to exist. It's a miracle that Jupiter was created, it protects us from many floating masses in space with it's size, imagine if it wasn't there one of it's moons could have collided with Earth... wouldn't have been pretty. Also there were like a million things that happened which made it impossible for life to exist. For example, at one time the oceans contained a lot of iron, the iron would form compounds with oxygen to form iron oxide (rust). It would collide with land and stay there, but of course inevitably the iron ran out meaning that the oxygen which was being created by a very simple life form known as stromatolites (I think) was finally able to released out into the atmosphere.

I'm sure there are a few more miracles as to how life is sustainable on Earth and because of all the miracles we should be grateful for our lives. Based on the fact that all these miracles happened, I find it hard to believe that another planet is as lucky as ours. However, I had a discussion with a science teacher about this and he told me that considering there are millions of galaxies which contain many solar systems with stars and planets the chance that a miracle like Earth could happen at least one more time is actually quite likely.

Also, someone commented about life being able to sustain itself without oxygen or water and I see how you could think that but it's highly unlikely. All organisms (that we know of) need oxygen for respiration which occurs in every cell of our body. This converts glucose into energy which separates us from rocks. With energy we can perform all of the life processes that make us living: move, respire and grow. It could be possible, but I don't see how that could happen.
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lol... you don't even understand how much of an accident it is that there is life on Earth. It was a miracle that a mass just the right size collided with Earth and formed the moon, which we wouldn't be able to live without. It's a miracle that the Earth is in just the right position to be the right temperature for life to exist. It's a miracle that Jupiter was created, it protects us from many floating masses in space with it's size, imagine if it wasn't there one of it's moons could have collided with Earth... wouldn't have been pretty. Also there were like a million things that happened which made it impossible for life to exist. For example, at one time the oceans contained a lot of iron, the iron would form compounds with oxygen to form iron oxide (rust). It would collide with land and stay there, but of course inevitably the iron ran out meaning that the oxygen which was being created by a very simple life form known as stromatolites (I think) was finally able to released out into the atmosphere.

I'm sure there are a few more miracles as to how life is sustainable on Earth and because of all the miracles we should be grateful for our lives. Based on the fact that all these miracles happened, I find it hard to believe that another planet is as lucky as ours. However, I had a discussion with a science teacher about this and he told me that considering there are millions of galaxies which contain many solar systems with stars and planets the chance that a miracle like Earth could happen at least one more time is actually quite likely.

Also, someone commented about life being able to sustain itself without oxygen or water and I see how you could think that but it's highly unlikely. All organisms (that we know of) need oxygen for respiration which occurs in every cell of our body. This converts glucose into energy which separates us from rocks. With energy we can perform all of the life processes that make us living: move, respire and grow. It could be possible, but I don't see how that could happen.
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First mistake: "that we know of".
Second mistake: Anaerobic life does exist.
Could you name some please?
Restating: life may not necessarily need exact-Earth conditions to exist.
I never said that it wasn't possible, I just said that we have no proof that life can live without certain things such as water. I'm not too sure about oxygen, but one thing I do know is that astronomers normally look for water on a planet as a first sign of possibility that there is life on the planet.
Life adapted to Earth, not the other way around.
Well that's like saying that there is life of every planet and that life on each planet has adapted to it's own planet... I think not lol. Life adapts to Earth as it changes, but for life to begin certain things had to have happened and conditions met... I don't see anything living on Mars lool
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Could you name some please?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_organism

I never said that it wasn't possible, I just said that we have no proof that life can live without certain things such as water. I'm not too sure about oxygen, but one thing I do know is that astronomers normally look for water on a planet as a first sign of possibility that there is life on the planet.
Scientists actually go through various methods in searching for extra-terrestrial life. They seek radio signals and laser beams, examine meteorites, etc. Other characteristics they look for are sulfur and carbon dioxide.

Well that's like saying that there is life of every planet and that life on each planet has adapted to it's own planet... I think not lol. Life adapts to Earth as it changes, but for life to begin certain things had to have happened and conditions met... I don't see anything living on Mars lool
Evidence indicating that floating liquid has existed on Mars at one point has been found, the idea that life could have taken place on Mars at one point is conceivable.

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Thanks, but this is not intelligent life... it's bacteria lol

I don't believe that complex and intelligent life such as humans can exist without water and oxygen.
Scientists actually go through various methods in searching for extra-terrestrial life. They seek radio signals and laser beams, examine meteorites, etc. Other characteristics they look for are sulfur and carbon dioxide.
That may be true but it doesn't suggest that scientists believe that life can exist without water and oxygen.
Evidence indicating that floating liquid has existed on Mars at one point has been found.
Floating liquid...? There is actually water on Mars which is frozen. However the conditions aren't correct for life. I believe I heard that very simple life-forms have been discovered on mars but they were dead or something, meaning that at one point the conditions were livable. It is believed that if a proper atmosphere was created on Mars with enough CO2 to create a global warming effect humans could live on Mars as the atmosphere would be better and the temperature would be suitable.
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I strongly Believe that there are life in other Worlds! It is impossoble that Earth is the only planet that holds life! The Universe is Huge and Vast our Technology is not to advanced yet to even get out of our Solar System..So there is no proof that there are Life in other Moons and Planets, but there is gotta be Life out there!
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