Obama has plans of lenghtening school hours... Page 2

Started by Mitchman September 27th, 2009 8:08 PM
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Timbjerr

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As a product of the American educational system, I rarely noticed there was anything wrong...but that's probably the problem. Because my IQ test results from elementary school came back somewhere around 159, I was placed in accelerated classes throughout my entire grade school career. Schools only hire the best teachers possible for the smartest students in their school. The rest are just left in the dust. While my teachers were actually teaching me cool things and whatnot, the poor saps that had IQs less than 130 were just being taught the bare minimum in order to pass the standardized tests.

If you ask me, that's certainly not right, because when students arrive in college, guess what? The students that had a background in their high school's accelerated classes outperform by a large margin due to the fact that they've already formed strong study habits while the other students have to struggle to stay afloat.

Now, I'm speaking in generalities, so there are the exceptions to note. But overall, schools need to hire better teachers not only for the smart students, but also for the average student. >_>

twocows

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Schools need longer hours?
Bollocks, they only need better teachers. Instead of sending teachers to the rubber room, they should just fire them depending on the consequence.
Germany, for example, has a much higher education(Average I.Q of 107), and they only need 6 hours of school. America has an average I.Q of 95, and they have about 8 hours of school on average.
It isn't the school hours, but in fact the teachers and parents.
Yeah they do. First off, as waka said, IQ has nothing to do with anything (especially education). I have an IQ somewhere between 140 and 180 (which already shows how unreliable even the professionally administered tests are). Even the pro-IQ people will admit that IQ has nothing to do with education; it has to do with learning capacity. It's something related to genetics, not to education.

Teachers are lazy that is the problem... But ultimately they are too protected by their contract... I liked the European country being compared in the vid...
I don't know where you went to school, but I resent your generalizations. My high school teachers worked very hard. Just because there are a few bad apples doesn't mean the whole orchard should be torched.

I'm not in high school anymore, but yeah pretty much the thing is schools need better teachers and curriculum, not longer hours. Also, extra curricular activities are good for the students for building up some social skills, so all work and no play will definitely cook their brains out.
I agree with the second part, but not with the first part. You seem to be contradicting yourself; you're arguing that schools don't need longer hours, but that schools need longer hours. Personally, I think that the school day should not only last longer, but that extra-curricular activities should be mandatory. I know what I did when I wasn't doing homework, school, or extra-curricular, and very little of it could be considered useful.

I'm already stressed enough with school as it is. Please don't make it longer. ._.
Welcome to the real world. If you go to college, you're probably going to be trying to hold down a job as well as working on your education. Writing a 20 page report and holding on to your job is not a cakewalk. You're going to be stressed until the day you retire, just like the rest of us.

IQ has no correlation/causation factor with academic success.
Yes. "Words of wisdom."

Also, it doesn't need better curriculum or longer hours. It needs better teachers and more organization. We have the same curriculum as everyone else, just a lot later. That needs to change too. (We actually have more..than some)
My teachers were fine, but I won't disagree with extra training and harsher rules for teachers. I also agree that we do need to learn more at an earlier age, like you said, but this means longer hours, which contradicts what you said.

I saw this, I'm personally against it, I think Obama's being a bit Adultcentric if you ask me.
Of course you do. You're a kid. If there's one thing all kids agree on, it's that adults don't care about them. Particularly absurd when you realize that a better education would help the same kids later in life and do nothing for the adults. How exactly does more education help our current adults, might I ask? It requires workers to put in more hours, it requires millions of dollars of government spending (which either means higher taxes or taking away funding from something else), and by the time the effects can be seen, they'll all be old or dead. A more demanding education is hardly "adult-centric."
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HeidiMoose

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Maybe longer hours = more pay for teachers?? lol I don't know. I'm out of high school so as a student it wouldn't effect me. I think that better teachers are what's truly necessary. I aspire to be a teacher someday.. so I hope to finally bring something good to the classroom. :]

Oh yeah, and one thing that maybe the school system should get rid of (or at least my school district passed this during my senior year.. ). If a student didn't do their homework or turn in an assignment, etc... they still got 50% on the assignment! So basically they were giving out the freedom for students to be lazy and still have a high chance of passing their class as long as they turned something in every now and then instead of working hard for their education.
And people wonder why today's youth is so apathetic.
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It needs better everything. Period.

I do like the idea of opening schools on weekends as safe areas for kids, though I wonder if they'd be staffed by already overworked teachers. That wouldn't be such a good idea.
Weekends would be nice to have schools open. They could use that time to allow student teachers get part-time positions for extra help on homework, essays, etc. (if schools can afford it-if not, don't pay them, ha, they're there for experience.) They could also use them as mentioned, a safe-place to have fun or meet up with friends.

Words of wisdom.

Glad I'm out of high school already! \o/
Amen. XD

IQ has no correlation/causation factor with academic success.
^--truth.

Silly Obama. I agree with him on most of his education viewpoints, but this is really an odd statement. Keep them in school longer? I predict falling grades for any class whose class times are 3:45-5:00pm. Plus this cuts out on sports and clubs extremely..


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twocows

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@twocows: Yeah, I'm taking college classes while being in high school. I know what the real world and stress pretty much feels like.

And I'm taking my first year of college while still being in high school next year if not this year already. So yeah. >>; I go through the real world pretty much everyday.
So tell me, how's the part-time job mixing with your term papers? I took college classes while in high school, too. It's nothing like the real thing. One or two classes is easy to handle; five and a job is nightmarish. And yet, it would be better if I could take more, since I'm worried about being able to finance my next two years (a three-year BoS is almost impossible, but would be a lot easier on the wallet).

Also, I forgot to add that I don't know the horrors of having a full-time cubicle job, which is where many will end up. Luckily, I might bypass that more or less, being an IT worker.
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twocows

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You would be digging an early grave if you had high school + college + a job.

Before, the college classes I had were actually full of rigor. Because they crossed the line on how much work they're supposed to give, they've been told to at least calm down with the amount of work they give, yet somehow make the course challenging enough so that students will freak or something.

As of such, I have no official term papers, as all we're focusing on now is discussion and upcoming exams and whatnot.
The thing is, unless you're lucky and your parents have a lot of money (and are generous with it), you'll need to get a job in college. And it's no better than getting one in the situation you're in (maybe a little better on the off-weeks, but other than that, it's as bad or worse).
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patch.

listen what I say, oh

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Kekekeke. [/Japaneselaugh]

I have lengthened school hours next year. Eight AM to five thirty PM every day, aside from Friday, where if we have our parents consent we can go home at two thirty PM for 'improvised family activity'. Yeah. Okay.
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As a product of the American educational system, I rarely noticed there was anything wrong...but that's probably the problem. Because my IQ test results from elementary school came back somewhere around 159, I was placed in accelerated classes throughout my entire grade school career. Schools only hire the best teachers possible for the smartest students in their school. The rest are just left in the dust. While my teachers were actually teaching me cool things and whatnot, the poor saps that had IQs less than 130 were just being taught the bare minimum in order to pass the standardized tests.

If you ask me, that's certainly not right, because when students arrive in college, guess what? The students that had a background in their high school's accelerated classes outperform by a large margin due to the fact that they've already formed strong study habits while the other students have to struggle to stay afloat.

Now, I'm speaking in generalities, so there are the exceptions to note. But overall, schools need to hire better teachers not only for the smart students, but also for the average student. >_>
I'm not so sure you know what you're talking about. You say you had an IQ of 159 in elementary which is where I stopped believing you.

Refer to this: http://wilderdom.com/intelligence/IQWhatScoresMean.html

According to you, you had a higher IQ than a college professor and an IQ equal to that of a Nobel Peace Prize winner, who are usually doctors and scientists for the most part. If your IQ was really 159 you'd be more fit teaching the classes rather than going to them. Furthermore, Einstein never took an actual IQ test but it's expected that his IQ was around 160 to 180. So you're saying you had an IQ equal to that of Einstein when you were still in elementary school... right.

Might wanna get your facts straight buddy.
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It needs better everything. Period.
As much as I agree with you, I find myself unable to oppose his decision. Any time that I spend anywhere but my house is cool with me.

Living in North carolina, I think that my state will be the second to impliment this poilicy or the second-to-last. Not sure which would hurt more in the long run.


As always, thank you, PC'ers, for tolerating the crap that comes out of my mouth.

Chibi Robo

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What is he thinking really?
Lengthening school hours isn't going to help if the teachers aren't teaching properly if anything the the school system should get better teachers that would at least help a bit more.
I don't know why obama thinks lengthening school hours will work better then hiring more well educated teachers?
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Timbjerr

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I'm not so sure you know what you're talking about. You say you had an IQ of 159 in elementary which is where I stopped believing you.

Refer to this: http://wilderdom.com/intelligence/IQWhatScoresMean.html

According to you, you had a higher IQ than a college professor and an IQ equal to that of a Nobel Peace Prize winner, who are usually doctors and scientists for the most part. If your IQ was really 159 you'd be more fit teaching the classes rather than going to them. Furthermore, Einstein never took an actual IQ test but it's expected that his IQ was around 160 to 180. So you're saying you had an IQ equal to that of Einstein when you were still in elementary school... right.

Might wanna get your facts straight buddy.
One's IQ is generally constant throughout the entirety of their life. It's a measure of one's cognitive speed, not a measure of how much knowledge they possess. A gifted five-year-old just starting school can have the same IQ as an Ivy League professor, even if they don't hold the same level of knowledge.
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I don't think that our town would have enough money to keep the schools open longer.... We can't afford any forgien language teachers or computer teachers...... We cut four science and geography teachers last year and then the middle school couldn't afford a computer teacher so no computer class for them.... And I get so much homework, how would I have time for it? And all the clubs I do... *Gulp* Gosh, I won't have time to study for anything! Not good, I better start to do my homework on the bus if this happens, my bus ride is 1 1/2 after all......... *Sigh*

dc_united

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If school extends three hours, then everyone loses. Teachers already stay after for hours grading or doing tutoring or coaching sports. Not fair to students either, for those of us with sports, jobs or after school activities.

Part of the reason for low scores that nobody seems to notice is No Child Left Behind. The product of NCLB, High School Assessments, are pointless tests that have no bearing on college or academic futures, besides the fact that failing requires retesting or you don't graduate. Where I live, our teachers spend the second half of the school year doing a government-mandated cumulative review for the HSAs, giving us about 4.5 months of school, plus whatever we learn before school is let out three weeks after the HSA.
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I agree with the second part, but not with the first part. You seem to be contradicting yourself; you're arguing that schools don't need longer hours, but that schools need longer hours. Personally, I think that the school day should not only last longer, but that extra-curricular activities should be mandatory. I know what I did when I wasn't doing homework, school, or extra-curricular, and very little of it could be considered useful.
What I meant is I don't think the usual six/seven period school day should be longer so that there is more time for extra-curricular activities. Sorry if I didn't make sense the first time there.
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One's IQ is generally constant throughout the entirety of their life. It's a measure of one's cognitive speed, not a measure of how much knowledge they possess. A gifted five-year-old just starting school can have the same IQ as an Ivy League professor, even if they don't hold the same level of knowledge.
Right. Because there are plenty of kindergarteners outsmarting professors.
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Right. Because there are plenty of kindergarteners outsmarting professors.
The point of his post was not to say what you are claiming. It was to say that they learn new concepts and subjects at about the same rate as college professors. The I.Q can still be altered quite a few points, although the debate of nature vs. nurture is still going on.

twocows

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Right. Because there are plenty of kindergarteners outsmarting professors.
Luck already said it, but since you don't seem to be grasping the concept verbally, I made this nice picture for you.
Spoiler:

Note that the 2 year old with the 140 IQ has less knowledge than the 60 year old with 80 IQ. This picture assumes that higher IQ actually does equate to higher learning capacity, which I don't really buy (IQ is a fundamentally flawed measurement).
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Timbjerr

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Right. Because there are plenty of kindergarteners outsmarting professors.
oookaaay...

You should refer to twocows' post for a visual explanation of what IQ really means.

Getting past that, the point of my original post wasn't me boasting about my IQ, but rather how (in my experience) American schools are flawed because schools will only hire really good teachers for the students with higher aptitude test results, leaving the more average students with inept teachers that are only expected to teach the bare minimum for passing the standardized tests. >_>
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No way in hell am I spending an extra minute in school, eight damn hours is enough. I mean 40 hours a week of my time is down the drain. The hours aren't the problem, one of my seventh grade teachers was teaching third graders the same stuff she was teaching us... Gaaaah! I

Edit:
Oh, but it won't pass, we can barely afford to pay everything that we have now. So.. we won't be able to pay them for all the extra hours and days.
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Also, academics shouldn't be the be-all-and-end-all of schooling.
^This, and...

I think they need to address the actual system before they adjust the length of the teaching.
^This.

I personally see this as coming from Obama's own lack of confidence. He always seems to have a need to make America look better for the sake of places like Europe and Asia and whatnot. Too bad that generally always means bad news for us...

I should feel relieved that this won't affect me, but the idea of being forced (by my own government, no less!) to send my hypothetical children to school for that long when I know damn good and well that the education won't be anymore affective than it has been in the past really irks me.
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twocows

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I personally see this as coming from Obama's own lack of confidence. He always seems to have a need to make America look better for the sake of places like Europe and Asia and whatnot. Too bad that generally always means bad news for us...
How is having more education bad news? Even if you've got a hypothetical situation where all your teachers are mediocre or worse, you're still learning a little about the subject.

I should feel relieved that this won't affect me, but the idea of being forced (by my own government, no less!) to send my hypothetical children to school for that long when I know damn good and well that the education won't be anymore affective than it has been in the past really irks me.
You're assuming all educational facilities in the US are bad. That's the opposite of the truth. Most schools have a fine teaching staff that is genuinely interested in helping their students learn. Our primary educational system is already effective, just not as effective as some out there (if it were ineffective as the rule, colleges would have no attendees). The way I see it, lengthening the school day can only help.
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Feign

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The article that fits in with the video for those who don't want to watch it:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1500338

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Wow. You guys made wonderful points. I also think this shouldn't happen. Even though I finished school 10 years ago, I don't think it will be fair that they lengthen the school hours. What would happen to the sports and clubs that is held after school? Or band practice? This isn't good. They will be cut. I really hope this doesn't pass. I think it is because the teachers want more money! That is what it is. Money!

I think they need to work on the system itself than lengthen school hours. There are teachers out there that don't know how to teach. I was lucky that I had great teachers when I was at school. But times has changed. Most of them can't do their job and they are still here! And students are failing. Well it also the parents fault too not just the teachers. But anyway how will this work?! I don't see it working too well. :/ Well shall see though.

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