Too Many HMs!

Started by valmont667 December 26th, 2009 2:29 PM
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Male
Mars
Seen December 3rd, 2010
Posted December 26th, 2009
5 posts
13.4 Years
Hey, I've just discovered this cool site and wanted to discuss the HM problem in the latest Pokemon games.

There are far too many HM's and I don't see why we need them all. Even if you find a HM you can't use it till you have the right GYM badge so why not simply allow the GYM leader to teach you who to, for example, smash rocks (Rock Smash) with your strength ability. Strength can be used to cover 3 HMs in one (Rock Smash, Strength and Rock Climb) also Fly and Defog could be combined and allow Fearow to flap its wings to blow the fog away, Waterfall and Surf are also two water moves that could be joined as one. It would appear the only real HMs we need are Fly, Surf, Cut and Strength, the others can be used in multipurpose ways with these base HMs. And while Fly and Surf are useful in battle these new HMs are all stupid.

It sucks having to give HM moves to everyone in your party just to navigate a stupid maze of rocks and walls and water. I don't understand why they dropped Flash, which was useful in battle and brough in usless moves like Defog.

For the next generation of Pokemon adventures I hope to see less of these HMs or allowing them to be outside battle only moves that don't waste a battle slot.

If you have any ideas for combating the HM problem I'd like to hear them.

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Seen October 1st, 2016
Posted February 20th, 2011
246 posts
16.3 Years
Waterfall isn't a waste actually. In competitive battling it's one of the strongest physical water attacks. Surf is one of the best special water attack. So those aren't really a big deal. I understand that the others can be a pain. But then again, that's why Bidoof/Bibarel is such a good HM slave :D
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Age 29
Female
Lake of Rage
Seen December 12th, 2015
Posted August 15th, 2012
1,931 posts
13.7 Years
I really didnt care for HMs that much, but it does bug me that a few take up move slots and are useless (defog) Rock smash isnt really that powerful (even though they boosted the attack power of it in DPPt) The only ones that I teach to pokemon is surf, fly, strength, and waterfall. They are pretty good in battle (espically fly & waterfall)
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Female
United States
Seen April 18th, 2010
Posted December 27th, 2009
6 posts
13.4 Years
I was just thinking the same thing earlier today when I had to put my game down after I couldn't figure out which Pokémon I wanted to teach Defog to in order to get through Route 215. I don't mind teaching a Pokémon an HM that can also be useful in battles, but I don't want to waste move spaces on HMs like Defog which more or less only get you through a route, nor do I want to carry around Pokémon that I don't actually plan on using in a battle just because I need to get through said routes. I'd like to either return to the original set of HMs (and maybe even include a few of the newer ones that aren't as useless as Defog) or, if they must continue introducing new HMs, to see new HMs that are both useful outside and inside of battle.
Age 33
Male
Kansas
Seen April 2nd, 2011
Posted December 31st, 2009
54 posts
15.1 Years
The biggest annoyance I see in generation 4 is defog... I wish they had never even added fog, it's horrible unless you bring some pokemon with swift and similar moves.
It would be no where near as bad if you could erase HM moves yourself instead of having to go to the move deleter.
Bidoof + Starly, they can do 6 HMs, normally I do Surf on my water type, Strength + Rock Smash + Rock Climb + Waterfall on Bidoof and Defog + Fly on Starly.



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Age 29
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Sydney
Seen July 5th, 2011
Posted March 31st, 2011
7,498 posts
18.5 Years
I think the number of Hidden Machines is fine. It may be annoying at times to carry Pokemon around just to be able to access certain areas but that creates part of the challenge.
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Amore

Seen 18 Hours Ago
Posted 18 Hours Ago
5,243 posts
13.8 Years
Hmmm......i have actually managed to get all HMs on my team with only two pokes!!!even though, it is a water team:

Blastoise-Surf
Feraligatr-Waterfall
Tropius-Cut,Fly,Defog
Golem-Strength,Rock Smash,Rock Climb (he evolved when i used him to trade over my Electivire)

Kirbychu

Still looking for Mirage Island
Seen August 20th, 2021
Posted July 28th, 2020
2,347 posts
14 Years
The biggest annoyance I see in generation 4 is defog... I wish they had never even added fog, it's horrible unless you bring some pokemon with swift and similar moves.
Imagine if GF decided to create a Pokemon that has the ability to summon fog. XD

Like others already have said, It'd be better if they could just be forgotten. Although, it'd be a good idea if they made it so at least one Pokemon has to have the specific HM, like how you can't release a Pokemon that happens to be the only one with a certain HM move.
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The Golden State
Seen February 22nd, 2013
Posted January 24th, 2010
393 posts
17.5 Years
I don't think there's necessarily too many HM's, I think the bigger problem is that all the moves except Surf and now Waterfall are basically useless. Cut would actually be somewhat useful if it was Grass-type and Strength would be useful if it was Fighting-type. The other moves are basically useless anyway though. I usually try to work in as many HM moves as I can on my main team so I don't have to use slaves, but I end up with several move slots that could have been filled much better being useless.
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Age 25
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Seen January 13th, 2010
Posted January 12th, 2010
26 posts
13.4 Years
The amount of HM's is fine, but a little overrated.
Some of the HM's could be combined, like surf & waterfall, fly & defog, rock smash & strength (it takes strength to be able to smash rocks, duh.)

IDK why, but does anyone else think that Rock Climb should be a rock type move and not a normal type?

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Kirbychu

Still looking for Mirage Island
Seen August 20th, 2021
Posted July 28th, 2020
2,347 posts
14 Years
IDK why, but does anyone else think that Rock Climb should be a rock type move and not a normal type?
You're climbing rocks, not controlling them. I can climb rocks, and so can many other people and animals; that makes it normal.

If HMs became regular skills or were combined, I'd have to say I'd miss my Surf an Waterfall. Maybe they could stay as moves, but the skills could just be given to a specific Pokemon over time? The could just get rid of moves like Rock Smash all together though.

.little monster

Age 30
Male
Ohio
Seen June 6th, 2017
Posted March 23rd, 2015
4,291 posts
14 Years
You're climbing rocks, not controlling them. I can climb rocks, and so can many other people and animals; that makes it normal.

If HMs became regular skills or were combined, I'd have to say I'd miss my Surf an Waterfall. Maybe they could stay as moves, but the skills could just be given to a specific Pokemon over time? The could just get rid of moves like Rock Smash all together though.
You do realize that they were saying it should be a normal type and asking why people call it a rock type, right? So don't act snotty about it.

I don't think HMs should be combined, I think some shouldn't be HMs. Like Defog, you barely use it. TM.
Age 31
Female
Northern Minnesota
Seen March 14th, 2011
Posted September 30th, 2010
120 posts
13.7 Years
Fight nicely you three.

But yeah, this is getting pretty redundant, but I have to agree that defog is totally useless. And annoying.
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Shimoda City
Seen 3 Days Ago
Posted January 25th, 2022
9,705 posts
15.5 Years
Waterfall was useless till the 4th gen Special/Physical split. Fly is somewhat more useful in battle with its power up to 90, but it's the convenience of the move out of battle that makes it useful. Rock Climb is just Strength with worse accuracy. Rock Smash is still too weak to be particularly useful. And Defog really lacks much use outside of the areas where you need to clear fog (like three areas in the game and Courtyard Colosseum in PBR)

And I don't use HM slaves and train full parties of six Pokemon, so they are a bit of a concern to me.

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Seen 55 Minutes Ago
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Moving to GPG [from DPPt, obvs] because it applies to former generations to an extent as well as HG/SS
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Seen May 22nd, 2022
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15.2 Years
Most are useless, too. Flash, Rock Smash, Whirlpool, Cut, and DeFog are the worst. I can tolerate the others at least, but those have got to go. DeFog is the worst of them all. The name bugs me.
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