Education in America

Started by Livewire September 23rd, 2010 1:22 PM
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What do you think?

Livewire

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Sunnyshore City
Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
14,091 posts
13.8 Years



In the Past 15-20 Years or so, The education system in the United States has faltered in terms of competition with other nations. Test scores have fallen, The Graduation rate has barely changed, and the school system itself is outdated and archaic. America has gone from being an intellectual leader, to quite frankly, under-achieving.



Statistics:

Wages comparison with people with and without GEDs/High school diploma's.
Spoiler:





College Graduation rates, 1988-2002
Spoiler:








Test scores/Graduation rates Juxtaposition
Spoiler:










Another useful Link:
http://www.seattlepi.com/business/1310ap_cn_film_bill_gates.html




Intelligently Discuss what you think is to blame for the faltering education system, whether it be from a socioeconomic standpoint, a lack of Government intervention, or too much, etc.
Seen January 4th, 2013
Posted October 21st, 2011
1,804 posts
13.8 Years
an education system is made successful by efforts from all who play a role in it: the staff, the students, and the parents. i think in the past few years there has been a prominent lack of discipline/ teachers aren't allowed to take much disciplinary action and are encouraged to cater to the students' emotional needs instead of exercising their positions as authority figures, which- don't get me wrong, trying to form an emotional connection with your students is very important and not enough teachers show that kind of care but constant babying simply has no correlation with the real world. but for every teacher that's too nice there's a teacher that doesn't care at all- doesn't care about what they're teaching and doesn't care about how the students are consuming the material. i think the plethora of teachers like this has ultimately caused a steep decline in general interest, which plays into self-discipline because these kids simply have no desire to learn. and guidance at home obviously plays a role- i work at an after school program for under-privileged children, we have kids who are raised by parents who don't feed them let alone make sure they're comprehending the curriculum. there are so many things i keep thinking of that i want to say but my head keeps losing important points and creating new ones and im starting to become overwhelmed ahfdjkhl but times are just a lot different now and there are so many different influences that create these problems within our education system. i certainly don't believe it's a matter of intelligence, i think it's primarily a matter of (self-)discipline, and a ton of factors stemming from pretty much everywhere play into its deterioration.

edit: hi anonymous thank you for your intelligent analysis on my post thank you for complaining about my grammar in a sentence full of grammatical errors and thank you for being superficial enough to be unable to see past trivial technicalities in the human language and ignoring my point :-)

Livewire

Male
Sunnyshore City
Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
14,091 posts
13.8 Years
an education system is made successful by efforts from all who play a role in it: the staff, the students, and the parents. i think in the past few years there has been a prominent lack of discipline/ teachers aren't allowed to take much disciplinary action and are encouraged to cater to the students' emotional needs instead of exercising their positions as authority figures, which- don't get me wrong, trying to form an emotional connection with your students is very important and not enough teachers show that kind of care but constant babying simply has no correlation with the real world. but for every teacher that's too nice there's a teacher that doesn't care at all- doesn't care about what they're teaching and doesn't care about how the students are consuming the material. i think the plethora of teachers like this has ultimately caused a steep decline in general interest, which plays into self-discipline because these kids simply have no desire to learn. and guidance at home obviously plays a role- i work at an after school program for under-privileged children, we have kids who are raised by parents who don't feed them let alone make sure they're comprehending the curriculum. there are so many things i keep thinking of that i want to say but my head keeps losing important points and creating new ones and im starting to become overwhelmed ahfdjkhl but times are just a lot different now and there are so many different influences that create these problems within our education system. i certainly don't believe it's a matter of intelligence, i think it's primarily a matter of (self-)discipline, and a ton of factors stemming from pretty much everywhere play into its deterioration.
I agree. I think it's a by-product of our culture as well. We're lazy, thats all there is to it. Education isn't treated as seriously as it should be, either.

twocows

The not-so-black cat of ill omen

Age 32
Male
Michigan
Seen February 19th, 2023
Posted April 30th, 2021
4,307 posts
14.2 Years
Our education system used to be the envy of the world. Free public schooling for everyone in a world where many went without any schooling. It's no wonder so many systems were modeled after ours.

However, things have changed. A high school education no longer cuts it; if you want a decent job, you need a university level education. What we have is a system that makes the poor poorer and the rich richer. It's nearly impossible for a lower or middle class person to afford a university level education, where it's trivially easy for an upper class person to do the same. Without a university level education, the poor stay in low-paying jobs, cementing their place in society.

The tax hysteria in the US prevents any politician from even suggesting tax hikes for fear of losing their office. I agree that increasing commercial taxes too much is a bad thing: low taxes encourage commerce and keep jobs in the US. However, something needs to be done. A system where we fully fund the first year for those who get a 3.0 GPA or higher, and partially fund those who get a 2.0 GPA or higher makes sense. Funding for subsequent years could also be dependent on GPA; this would keep people who aren't serious from wasting valuable tax dollars. I'm not an economics or political science expert, but this isn't exactly rocket science. It's a shame it'll never happen.
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Livewire

Male
Sunnyshore City
Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
14,091 posts
13.8 Years
Our education system used to be the envy of the world. Free public schooling for everyone in a world where many went without any schooling. It's no wonder so many systems were modeled after ours.

However, things have changed. A high school education no longer cuts it; if you want a decent job, you need a university level education. What we have is a system that makes the poor poorer and the rich richer. It's nearly impossible for a lower or middle class person to afford a university level education, where it's trivially easy for an upper class person to do the same. Without a university level education, the poor stay in low-paying jobs, cementing their place in society.

The tax hysteria in the US prevents any politician from even suggesting tax hikes for fear of losing their office. I agree that increasing commercial taxes too much is a bad thing: low taxes encourage commerce and keep jobs in the US. However, something needs to be done. A system where we fully fund the first year for those who get a 3.0 GPA or higher, and partially fund those who get a 2.0 GPA or higher makes sense. Funding for subsequent years could also be dependent on GPA; this would keep people who aren't serious from wasting valuable tax dollars. I'm not an economics or political science expert, but this isn't exactly rocket science. It's a shame it'll never happen.
I'm glad you brought in Taxation because that is a huge part of it. I personally know of a few school districts that went bottom up financially because their Levies failed, And the levies failed because the taxpayers would have to pay a few extra dollars per year so that the schools could operate, and they didn't like that. Now the state has control of the schools finances because they couldn't operate otherwise.

I'd also like to point out that our taxation rates are extremely low compared to Europe's and like you said, if a even marginal tax increase were proposed, people would be out for blood.

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And because of the budget shortfalls of many districts, teachers aren't being paid nearly as much as they're supposed to be considering the amount of work they do. Surely that's hurting education in several ways. People who would make excellent teachers are pursuing other career paths that pay more. Teachers who started out doing a great job have become discouraged by their low wages and have either quit or stopped putting in the effort.

And they need to earn more. They have to put up with tight deadlines, poorly behaved kids, parents of said kids who are sometimes just as poorly behaved, and having to do all this while being careful not to overstep their boundaries.

Sadly, with school budgets as lean as they are, I just can't see teachers getting adequate compensation in the near future. I wish they could take some of the wages away from some of the overpaid college professors, who, oddly enough, I've found to be of poorer quality overall than the public school teachers I've had, especially the professors I've had in my later years of college schooling.

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Livewire

Male
Sunnyshore City
Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
14,091 posts
13.8 Years
And because of the budget shortfalls of many districts, teachers aren't being paid nearly as much as they're supposed to be considering the amount of work they do. Surely that's hurting education in several ways. People who would make excellent teachers are pursuing other career paths that pay more. Teachers who started out doing a great job have become discouraged by their low wages and have either quit or stopped putting in the effort.

And they need to earn more. They have to put up with tight deadlines, poorly behaved kids, parents of said kids who are sometimes just as poorly behaved, and having to do all this while being careful not to overstep their boundaries.

Sadly, with school budgets as lean as they are, I just can't see teachers getting adequate compensation in the near future. I wish they could take some of the wages away from some of the overpaid college professors, who, oddly enough, I've found to be of poorer quality overall than the public school teachers I've had, especially the professors I've had in my later years of college schooling.
I agree completly. I come from a family of professors/teachers and I can definitely attest to all of that ^. Hopefully some increased Federal funding/budgeting can help fix that. But No Child Left Behind would need a major overhaul, and congress would have to approve a referendum on College cost-cutting.

The Interim Dean at my college makes a little over $95,000 a year, and does nothing except be a bureaucrat. Barely even meets with students.

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Age 30
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Seen January 28th, 2023
Posted December 12th, 2018
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17.8 Years
The thing is, a large number of the American populace are complacent. They don't want to work for education reforms, they don't want to pay new taxes, they really don't want to change anything they do, but are astounded when the quality of education goes down. If you want to help things, you need to change, it's as simple as that.
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Zet

Age 33
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Seen September 29th, 2021
Posted May 16th, 2020
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15.7 Years
When was America an intellectual leader? Though I have to say that I would rather study in America or a Country that is lower ranked in those developed Countries and I would have gotten a better education than I got in this backwards State I live in.

donavannj

Age 32
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Posted 1 Week Ago
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When was America an intellectual leader? Though I have to say that I would rather study in America or a Country that is lower ranked in those developed Countries and I would have gotten a better education than I got in this backwards State I live in.
You wouldn't know it because you didn't exist at the time and weren't required to study American history. It started around the 1910s/1920s and continued until the 1960s/1970s with regards to the school systems.
whoops

Livewire

Male
Sunnyshore City
Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
14,091 posts
13.8 Years
The thing is, a large number of the American populace are complacent. They don't want to work for education reforms, they don't want to pay new taxes, they really don't want to change anything they do, but are astounded when the quality of education goes down. If you want to help things, you need to change, it's as simple as that.
Exactly- The people that whine about the education system sucking continually vote down legislation designed to help, and if the word 'Tax' is even hinted at, people go berserk. I always vote for my school levies, because it's the right thing to do.

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Kiel

Age 30
Male
Alistel, Vainqueur
Seen November 17th, 2021
Posted September 29th, 2021
9,467 posts
15 Years
I still hate it when fear of taxation prevents adequate funding of things that in the end the general public really wants.

Anyways on the topic of education, California used to have a great and adequately funded education system until Proposition 13 came in 1978, CAPPED property taxes to 1% and ruined it for future generations. (And then Proposition 98 kicked in 1988 counter-intuitively mandating that 40% of the state budget go to education >_>) and then people complain about California having a budget crisis.

Jeez Americans have the Heart of a Democrat and a Wallet of a Republican. u_u

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Posted April 9th, 2011
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Hehheh...I'm typing a research paper for my English class that basically details just how suckish America's No Child Left Behind Act is. Basicallly, under NCLB every kid in America is expected to pass their state's standardized test by 2014. Never mind that every child learns at different rates and that the teachers needed to do this are nearly impossible to administer everywhere. Never mind that the testing only covers the 3R's (Reading, wRiting, aRithmetic). Every kid deserves to pass! Every kid is a genius! /sarcasm
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Livewire

Male
Sunnyshore City
Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
14,091 posts
13.8 Years
Hehheh...I'm typing a research paper for my English class that basically details just how suckish America's No Child Left Behind Act is. Basicallly, under NCLB every kid in America is expected to pass their state's standardized test by 2014. Never mind that every child learns at different rates and that the teachers needed to do this are nearly impossible to administer everywhere. Never mind that the testing only covers the 3R's (Reading, wRiting, aRithmetic). Every kid deserves to pass! Every kid is a genius! /sarcasm
NCLB is the root of the entire problem, really. A school doesn't meet NCLB criteria, means no federal money, means no pay for teachers, means the schools' test scores remain bad, which means that the reason the school was bad in the first place goes unnoticed by the government. NCLB perpetuates, instead of fixing, the existing problem.

Trap-Eds

Dig a hole, dig a hole........

Age 28
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Peach Creek...I wish.
Seen April 9th, 2011
Posted April 9th, 2011
1,119 posts
14.8 Years

NCLB is the root of the entire problem, really. A school doesn't meet NCLB criteria, means no federal money, means no pay for teachers, means the schools' test scores remain bad, which means that the reason the school was bad in the first place goes unnoticed by the government. NCLB perpetuates, instead of fixing, the existing problem.
Yes, and then some states go and "fix" the test scores so they can get the funding they so clearly deserve. Oy...I'm really hoping Obama's Race to The Top plan is successful enough. It probably won't affect mea as much, since I'm already a junior...
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Livewire

Male
Sunnyshore City
Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
14,091 posts
13.8 Years
Yes, and then some states go and "fix" the test scores so they can get the funding they so clearly deserve. Oy...I'm really hoping Obama's Race to The Top plan is successful enough. It probably won't affect mea as much, since I'm already a junior...
I hope it works as well, I'm in College now so it won't effect me, (Unless we get a referendum on College costs) but I have younger siblings and cousins to think about too.
Age 31
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Seen November 9th, 2021
Posted March 17th, 2015
3,517 posts
18.2 Years
Others countries send the children of lesser intelligence/capability through work programs very early on. The United States gives everyone a chance in the name of equality.

This is one of the reasons why European test scores are higher than American ones.
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Kiel

Age 30
Male
Alistel, Vainqueur
Seen November 17th, 2021
Posted September 29th, 2021
9,467 posts
15 Years


I hope it works as well, I'm in College now so it won't effect me, (Unless we get a referendum on College costs) but I have younger siblings and cousins to think about too.
Well the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 has:

Student loan reform

Title II of the reconciliation bill deals with student loan reform. The language is very similar to the Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act that passed the House last year; but with some slight variation. The reform package includes,[20]
  • Ends the process of the federal government giving subsidies to private banks to give out federally insured loans. Instead loans will be administered directly by the Department of Education.[21]
  • Increases the Pell Grant scholarship award.
  • For new borrowers of loans starting in 2014, those who qualify will be able to cap the amount they must spend on loan repayment each month to 10% of their discretionary income (current cap is 15%.)[20]
  • Also, for new borrowers after 2014, loans will be eligible to be forgiven to those who make timely payments after 20 years (the current time-frame being 25 years).[20]
  • Will make it easier for parents to take out federal PLUS loans for students.[22]
  • Several billion will be used to fund historically poor and minority schools, as well as increasing community college funding.[21]
That pretty much is it for Higher Education policy in the Obama Administration. :U

Livewire

Male
Sunnyshore City
Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
14,091 posts
13.8 Years


Well the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 has:



That pretty much is it for Higher Education policy in the Obama Administration. :U
Ahhh I see. :/ I like the fact that the Department of Education has a little more power. [21] Well I'll be already graduated by 2014, but that can help me with my Grad work.
Well I'm not really surprised by these results. Every class I have is about an hour long and most of my teachers sit on their computers for about 20 to 30 minutes of the class (I'm not kidding) which leaves us to do as we please. Then when they're done doing whatever it is, they'll just assign us homework and explain it for about ten minutes. The rest of the class usually involves them walking out into the hall to talk to other teachers.

One of the problems (that my history teacher had a whole class on last week) is that teachers really can't be fired. They either have to physically abuse someone in class or do something unacceptable in their out of school life to get the boot. All the school system does in my town to check to see how teachers are performing is by having them observed once a year in one class. The funny part is the teachers are told when they will be observed so they can prepare for it. Whenever I end up being in the ~observed class of the year~ the teacher will talk to us the day before and say, "OKAY GUYS PLEASE JUST BE REALLY GOOD I'M GETTING OBSERVED TOMORROW AND THIS IS MY FAVORITE CLASS AND PLEASE PLEASE JUST BE GOOD I NEED A GOOD REVIEW BLAH BLAH BLAH."

I should mention though that I'm not bashing all teachers and it's not completely all their fault. I have had some wonderful teachers throughout my years who obtained the whole classes's respect and had intelligent conversations with us that actually revolved about what we were learning at the time.

twocows

The not-so-black cat of ill omen

Age 32
Male
Michigan
Seen February 19th, 2023
Posted April 30th, 2021
4,307 posts
14.2 Years
Well I'm not really surprised by these results. Every class I have is about an hour long and most of my teachers sit on their computers for about 20 to 30 minutes of the class (I'm not kidding) which leaves us to do as we please. Then when they're done doing whatever it is, they'll just assign us homework and explain it for about ten minutes. The rest of the class usually involves them walking out into the hall to talk to other teachers.

One of the problems (that my history teacher had a whole class on last week) is that teachers really can't be fired. They either have to physically abuse someone in class or do something unacceptable in their out of school life to get the boot. All the school system does in my town to check to see how teachers are performing is by having them observed once a year in one class. The funny part is the teachers are told when they will be observed so they can prepare for it. Whenever I end up being in the ~observed class of the year~ the teacher will talk to us the day before and say, "OKAY GUYS PLEASE JUST BE REALLY GOOD I'M GETTING OBSERVED TOMORROW AND THIS IS MY FAVORITE CLASS AND PLEASE PLEASE JUST BE GOOD I NEED A GOOD REVIEW BLAH BLAH BLAH."

I should mention though that I'm not bashing all teachers and it's not completely all their fault. I have had some wonderful teachers throughout my years who obtained the whole classes's respect and had intelligent conversations with us that actually revolved about what we were learning at the time.
Teachers that do what you've described are precisely the ones at fault. The district is also to blame for not using oversight, but not teaching your own class is unforgivable. Every one of those people should be fired.
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Male
Shreveport
Seen January 14th, 2014
Posted March 8th, 2011
105 posts
13.6 Years
I know I'm going to get alot of crap for this...
but going to school is not healthy these days!
But snort adderal to stay up all night to study, you have no free time anf gain weight your freshmen year of college
it's ********
school should be a choice, I'm sure there are alot of dumb people who need it.
But plenty of people can get good jobs just with a high school education


Foggy reptiles, dipped in moonlight
Seen September 24th, 2020
Posted November 26th, 2018
2,143 posts
14.7 Years
Well, the year before I went into my high school they had a horrible teacher. He was an Algebra teacher, just saying. He would put a problem on the board, and then kids could do whatever they wanted, they would just act like they were doing the problem when someone walked in. He graded kids based on how much liked them. So, at the end of the quarter, their grade would dramatically drop.

Then there are the students who just don't give a damn, and the parents too.

The fault lies in everyone, but sometimes more people than others :/.
Male
Hoenn
Seen March 12th, 2021
Posted April 22nd, 2017
1,494 posts
15.2 Years
Our education system isn't going to change. The fact is no one really wants change in that manner in this country. The US's population is all about "I don't want to pay more, but I want more free sh*t." That's why I can't live here anymore. Many of my friends are in upper class families and I live just inside middle class becuase i was raised by a single mom. They got good educations by going to private schools and I was lucky I got a good one from going to a well funded school district. It makes me sad that people are so selfish and it's hurting our country.

The Tax issue is a big part of it too! Every country that has high taxes (even approaching over 50%) has the wierd factor of most people paying them keep at least 30% of their income after basic living expenses. In the US, after taxes and basic living expenses, youre lucky to keep 5% of your income. Those high taxes fund programs that we pay for out of pocket at triple sometime QUADRUPLE the rates that a government funded program would. Why don't we have those programs? Because socialism leads to communism according to republicans (most republicans, at least) and ignorants who don't know the difference. Our struggle today is the result of the cold war and it's bullsh*t. That's why im moving to British Columbia out of college.

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